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Project Discovery and Button Mashers

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Sheldon d'Albion
#101 - 2016-03-11 13:08:58 UTC
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Sheldon d'Albion wrote:
So Discovery ... , quite a big challenge with really puzzling "tests"
I thought I could be good at that but unfortunatly some profond and obscur considerations prevent my accuracy to be better than 48% .
I was quite sure before submitting that I would get an incorrect match despise a really good odds
like this example http://imgur.com/JLX2vMj
It is still funny but don't know something missing ......


Agree that it looks like cell to cell variation but with green plus blue toggled on I can't say more than that. Do you have a green only view of it?


Probably it is not like I know what i am doing :D
I understand later that this is probably a partial answer but still get -0.5% and not neutral gain .
By the way like the link , will take some time on it before coming back to discovery .
Memphis Baas
#102 - 2016-03-11 14:11:02 UTC
Further comments:

1. The primary example image for each of the selections on the right side is sometimes confusing, as it is too crisp compared to the examples underneath, and compared to the sample on the left. I'm starting to ignore the primary example image and trying to compare the sample with the 3 sub-examples only.

2. I'd like to see an indicator of how busy the Discovery server is. Currently I'm getting time-outs if the TQ server is above 25k users, so I've calculated that you're getting about 3% of the players interested and hitting 800+ submissions/minute and timing out. But guessing this lag based on TQ login numbers is programming me to "not play Discovery during TQ prime time", which is not going to be good if you guys upgrade the server hardware and/or there's an in-game fight or something that keeps EVE players busy and thus lowers the Discovery server load.
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#103 - 2016-03-11 16:51:44 UTC
The "cytoplasm" option in the Cytoplasm section says that the stain should be everywhere "except in the nucleus (blue marker)".

If the markers should be everywhere BUT the blue, then, if I select it, any option for the nucleus should be disabled. But this is not the case, which indicates that I CAN select something for the nucleus even though this option says there should be nothing in it.

Is that right? Should the wording for this option be clarified or should the game disable all the nucleus options if you pick this one for the cytoplasm?
Memphis Baas
#104 - 2016-03-11 17:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
First, you're looking at a 3D cell that's been flattened somewhat, not a 2D slice of a cell, so cytoplasm could be above and below and around the nucleus, and in the image it will appear to be IN the nucleus. Like a semi-transparent fish, its liver is not IN its stomach, but from the side it could appear that way.

Second, you can have the markers bind separately to cytoplasm AND to something in the nucleus. So in that case you should see the cytoplasm pattern around the nucleus (and maybe more faded overlapping the nucleus), and you should be able to identify a pattern for what's in the nucleus as matching one of the nuclear patterns.

Basically, if you see strong cytoplasm green outside the nucleus and weak "inside" the nucleus, then it's just cytoplasm. If you see cytoplasm green, and the blue area clearly has the green nucleoli spheres, and you actually see spheres and not just fuzzy green, then their green dye has reacted with the cytoplasm AND the nucleoli, so you check both.
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#105 - 2016-03-11 18:09:56 UTC
Nice mini-game, but hell am I bad at it. I've dropped pretty damn fast in just half an hour. I'm at something like 44% accuracy now.

Hopefully I do better tomorrow, or I'll reach 0% sometime on Tuesday. P
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#106 - 2016-03-11 18:43:43 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
The "cytoplasm" option in the Cytoplasm section says that the stain should be everywhere "except in the nucleus (blue marker)".

If the markers should be everywhere BUT the blue, then, if I select it, any option for the nucleus should be disabled. But this is not the case, which indicates that I CAN select something for the nucleus even though this option says there should be nothing in it.

Is that right? Should the wording for this option be clarified or should the game disable all the nucleus options if you pick this one for the cytoplasm?


If you have a staining in the nucleus... Well then it's a nuclear staining there, not cytoplasm. They are not mutually exclusive. I
It's just that if you see smt in the nucleus - it's not (or more than) cytoplasm.

I understand what you mean, but you should see it as separate stainings (cyto and nucleus). Um, I kinda have a problem expressing exactly what I mean, but hope you'll understand me. Smile
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#107 - 2016-03-11 18:45:40 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
First, you're looking at a 3D cell that's been flattened somewhat, not a 2D slice of a cell, so cytoplasm could be above and below and around the nucleus, and in the image it will appear to be IN the nucleus. Like a semi-transparent fish, its liver is not IN its stomach, but from the side it could appear that way.

Second, you can have the markers bind separately to cytoplasm AND to something in the nucleus. So in that case you should see the cytoplasm pattern around the nucleus (and maybe more faded overlapping the nucleus), and you should be able to identify a pattern for what's in the nucleus as matching one of the nuclear patterns.

Basically, if you see strong cytoplasm green outside the nucleus and weak "inside" the nucleus, then it's just cytoplasm. If you see cytoplasm green, and the blue area clearly has the green nucleoli spheres, and you actually see spheres and not just fuzzy green, then their green dye has reacted with the cytoplasm AND the nucleoli, so you check both.



I should have read this more carefully before posting, great explanation!! Big smile
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#108 - 2016-03-11 18:46:33 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
Nice mini-game, but hell am I bad at it. I've dropped pretty damn fast in just half an hour. I'm at something like 44% accuracy now.

Hopefully I do better tomorrow, or I'll reach 0% sometime on Tuesday. P


LOL if it makes you feel any better I seem to be stuck at 60%... Shocked
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2016-03-11 19:52:58 UTC
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Midnight Hope wrote:
The "cytoplasm" option in the Cytoplasm section says that the stain should be everywhere "except in the nucleus (blue marker)".

If the markers should be everywhere BUT the blue, then, if I select it, any option for the nucleus should be disabled. But this is not the case, which indicates that I CAN select something for the nucleus even though this option says there should be nothing in it.

Is that right? Should the wording for this option be clarified or should the game disable all the nucleus options if you pick this one for the cytoplasm?


If you have a staining in the nucleus... Well then it's a nuclear staining there, not cytoplasm. They are not mutually exclusive. I
It's just that if you see smt in the nucleus - it's not (or more than) cytoplasm.

I understand what you mean, but you should see it as separate stainings (cyto and nucleus). Um, I kinda have a problem expressing exactly what I mean, but hope you'll understand me. Smile



I think I do, then the WORDING of the cytoplasm option should me clarified since it is possible to pick that option and STIL have staining in the nucleus (blue marker)
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#110 - 2016-03-11 20:04:49 UTC
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
First, you're looking at a 3D cell that's been flattened somewhat, not a 2D slice of a cell, so cytoplasm could be above and below and around the nucleus, and in the image it will appear to be IN the nucleus. Like a semi-transparent fish, its liver is not IN its stomach, but from the side it could appear that way.

Second, you can have the markers bind separately to cytoplasm AND to something in the nucleus. So in that case you should see the cytoplasm pattern around the nucleus (and maybe more faded overlapping the nucleus), and you should be able to identify a pattern for what's in the nucleus as matching one of the nuclear patterns.

Basically, if you see strong cytoplasm green outside the nucleus and weak "inside" the nucleus, then it's just cytoplasm. If you see cytoplasm green, and the blue area clearly has the green nucleoli spheres, and you actually see spheres and not just fuzzy green, then their green dye has reacted with the cytoplasm AND the nucleoli, so you check both.



I should have read this more carefully before posting, great explanation!! Big smile



So these are not confocal images but normal microscopy?
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#111 - 2016-03-11 20:07:12 UTC
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Nice mini-game, but hell am I bad at it. I've dropped pretty damn fast in just half an hour. I'm at something like 44% accuracy now.

Hopefully I do better tomorrow, or I'll reach 0% sometime on Tuesday. P


LOL if it makes you feel any better I seem to be stuck at 60%... Shocked


I'm at 40% now. Lol

Apparently I have this really bad luck where I choose something, but the real solution is a completely different , just similar looking thing.

Right now the mini-game traps me like this all the time. Two more ways I fail:

1.) I think I have found and marked everything, but it turns out just one tiny thing was wanted, everything else was apparently just an hallucination on my part and I lose accuracy, even if I actually did find the right thing.

2.) When I'm lured into thinking there's this just one really tiny thing the game wants marked, it turns out there are multiple other thinks I misinterpreted. I lose tons of accuracy.

Welp, the way this is going my work for science is done shortly. P
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#112 - 2016-03-11 20:13:27 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Nice mini-game, but hell am I bad at it. I've dropped pretty damn fast in just half an hour. I'm at something like 44% accuracy now.

Hopefully I do better tomorrow, or I'll reach 0% sometime on Tuesday. P


LOL if it makes you feel any better I seem to be stuck at 60%... Shocked


I'm at 40% now. Lol

Apparently I have this really bad luck where I choose something, but the real solution is a completely different , just similar looking thing.

Right now the mini-game traps me like this all the time. Two more ways I fail:

1.) I think I have found and marked everything, but it turns out just one tiny thing was wanted, everything else was apparently just an hallucination on my part and I lose accuracy, even if I actually did find the right thing.

2.) When I'm lured into thinking there's this just one really tiny thing the game wants marked, it turns out there are multiple other thinks I misinterpreted. I lose tons of accuracy.

Welp, the way this is going my work for science is done shortly. P


Hehe, might wanna check out this reddit? Vid tutorial upload that ppl are praising!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectDiscovery/comments/49yyt3/project_discovery_how_to_classify_samples/
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#113 - 2016-03-11 20:18:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Nice mini-game, but hell am I bad at it. I've dropped pretty damn fast in just half an hour. I'm at something like 44% accuracy now.

Hopefully I do better tomorrow, or I'll reach 0% sometime on Tuesday. P


LOL if it makes you feel any better I seem to be stuck at 60%... Shocked


I'm at 40% now. Lol

Apparently I have this really bad luck where I choose something, but the real solution is a completely different , just similar looking thing.

Right now the mini-game traps me like this all the time. Two more ways I fail:

1.) I think I have found and marked everything, but it turns out just one tiny thing was wanted, everything else was apparently just an hallucination on my part and I lose accuracy, even if I actually did find the right thing.

2.) When I'm lured into thinking there's this just one really tiny thing the game wants marked, it turns out there are multiple other thinks I misinterpreted. I lose tons of accuracy.

Welp, the way this is going my work for science is done shortly. P


Hehe, might wanna check out this reddit? Vid tutorial upload that ppl are praising!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectDiscovery/comments/49yyt3/project_discovery_how_to_classify_samples/


Just in case, does that help with that weird bug where the sample isn't loading and I get punished for leaving and restarting?

A lot of times I also run into cases where what I've chosen is clearly visible in the sample, but instead something else (and clearly wrong) is marked as right.

That second case could of course just be my ignorance in Biology, there's probably some arcane knowledge I'm missing.

Anyway, I'll try that link, maybe it helps.

By the way, if I my input gets discarded because of my many errors, do I get a message? I would like to stop playing then.
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#114 - 2016-03-11 20:23:45 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
Nice mini-game, but hell am I bad at it. I've dropped pretty damn fast in just half an hour. I'm at something like 44% accuracy now.

Hopefully I do better tomorrow, or I'll reach 0% sometime on Tuesday. P


LOL if it makes you feel any better I seem to be stuck at 60%... Shocked


I'm at 40% now. Lol

Apparently I have this really bad luck where I choose something, but the real solution is a completely different , just similar looking thing.

Right now the mini-game traps me like this all the time. Two more ways I fail:

1.) I think I have found and marked everything, but it turns out just one tiny thing was wanted, everything else was apparently just an hallucination on my part and I lose accuracy, even if I actually did find the right thing.

2.) When I'm lured into thinking there's this just one really tiny thing the game wants marked, it turns out there are multiple other thinks I misinterpreted. I lose tons of accuracy.

Welp, the way this is going my work for science is done shortly. P


Hehe, might wanna check out this reddit? Vid tutorial upload that ppl are praising!

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProjectDiscovery/comments/49yyt3/project_discovery_how_to_classify_samples/


Just in case, does that help with that weird bug where the sample isn't loading and I get punished for leaving and restarting?

A lot of times I also run into cases where what I've chosen is clearly visible in the sample, but instead something else (and clearly wrong) is marked as right.

That second case could of course just be my ignorance in Biology, there's probably some arcane knowledge I'm missing.

Anyway, I'll try that link, maybe it helps.

By the way, if I my input gets discarded because of my many errors, do I get a message? I would like to stop playing then.



What I've heard reg. the weird bug is that it's due to overload of the server.

Don't know about error, but will ask CCP_Wonderboy to reply to this post!
Youkai Tengu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2016-03-11 21:03:29 UTC
Seen this several times now: http://puu.sh/nD4Wz/c4ed499b12.jpg

There should be a better example of what it is.
- Looks a bit like aggresome, but doesn't fit the text description at all.
- Looks very much like one of the endoplasmic reticulum examples, but: "A symmetrical structure..." No, not symmetrical at all. The two first examples in the option doesn't show any symmetry, either. The last two, however, does. Doesn't look like a web, either. Wording should be changed in that, as well as several other options.
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#116 - 2016-03-11 21:06:09 UTC
Youkai Tengu wrote:
Seen this several times now: http://puu.sh/nD4Wz/c4ed499b12.jpg

There should be a better example of what it is.
- Looks a bit like aggresome, but doesn't fit the text description at all.
- Looks very much like one of the endoplasmic reticulum examples, but: "A symmetrical structure..." No, not symmetrical at all. The two first examples in the option doesn't show any symmetry, either. The last two, however, does. Doesn't look like a web, either. Wording should be changed in that, as well as several other options.


What you see in the image is a typical intermediate filament. I think the last of the example images should be somewhat similar to it.
Youkai Tengu
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2016-03-11 21:13:17 UTC
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Youkai Tengu wrote:
Seen this several times now: http://puu.sh/nD4Wz/c4ed499b12.jpg

There should be a better example of what it is.
- Looks a bit like aggresome, but doesn't fit the text description at all.
- Looks very much like one of the endoplasmic reticulum examples, but: "A symmetrical structure..." No, not symmetrical at all. The two first examples in the option doesn't show any symmetry, either. The last two, however, does. Doesn't look like a web, either. Wording should be changed in that, as well as several other options.


What you see in the image is a typical intermediate filament. I think the last of the example images should be somewhat similar to it.


You're absolutely right! Big smile
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#118 - 2016-03-12 05:41:14 UTC
Axhind wrote:
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
First, you're looking at a 3D cell that's been flattened somewhat, not a 2D slice of a cell, so cytoplasm could be above and below and around the nucleus, and in the image it will appear to be IN the nucleus. Like a semi-transparent fish, its liver is not IN its stomach, but from the side it could appear that way.

Second, you can have the markers bind separately to cytoplasm AND to something in the nucleus. So in that case you should see the cytoplasm pattern around the nucleus (and maybe more faded overlapping the nucleus), and you should be able to identify a pattern for what's in the nucleus as matching one of the nuclear patterns.

Basically, if you see strong cytoplasm green outside the nucleus and weak "inside" the nucleus, then it's just cytoplasm. If you see cytoplasm green, and the blue area clearly has the green nucleoli spheres, and you actually see spheres and not just fuzzy green, then their green dye has reacted with the cytoplasm AND the nucleoli, so you check both.



I should have read this more carefully before posting, great explanation!! Big smile



So these are not confocal images but normal microscopy?


No, you're right. Confocal images, so first paragraph not entirely correct. But if the optical sectioning was done close to the nucleus /cytoplasm interface there can be some bleed through.
HPA Illuminator
H P A
C C P Alliance
#119 - 2016-03-12 05:42:47 UTC
Midnight Hope wrote:
HPA Illuminator wrote:
Midnight Hope wrote:
The "cytoplasm" option in the Cytoplasm section says that the stain should be everywhere "except in the nucleus (blue marker)".

If the markers should be everywhere BUT the blue, then, if I select it, any option for the nucleus should be disabled. But this is not the case, which indicates that I CAN select something for the nucleus even though this option says there should be nothing in it.

Is that right? Should the wording for this option be clarified or should the game disable all the nucleus options if you pick this one for the cytoplasm?


If you have a staining in the nucleus... Well then it's a nuclear staining there, not cytoplasm. They are not mutually exclusive. I
It's just that if you see smt in the nucleus - it's not (or more than) cytoplasm.

I understand what you mean, but you should see it as separate stainings (cyto and nucleus). Um, I kinda have a problem expressing exactly what I mean, but hope you'll understand me. Smile



I think I do, then the WORDING of the cytoplasm option should me clarified since it is possible to pick that option and STIL have staining in the nucleus (blue marker)


Makes sense, and I'll fwd the input. Thanks!
Duke Killem
Doomheim
#120 - 2016-03-12 08:13:29 UTC
HPA Illuminator wrote:


Makes sense, and I'll fwd the input. Thanks!


You've been really great on the forum thank you.

To everyone else there's an in game chat channel called 'Project Discovery' with folks in that seem to know a thing or two. A few of them have over 90% accuracy all at varied levels.