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Covert-ops Cloak Question

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Author
Teium Purvanen
Doomheim
#1 - 2016-03-11 11:49:21 UTC
Hi all, Sorry to keep being a pest.

I know the basics about covert op cloak as in you can move and warp with it. If you are within 2,000km of an object it kicks you out of cloak.

My question is -

I'm in a relic site for example and i'm orbiting the box at 3,000km and hacking. A person enters the site to kill me and locks on, but is too far away to scramble or shoot me. Can i come out of hacking, hit cloak then MWD away? Am i still locked on while cloaked?

Kind regards
Teium
Arkoth 24
Doomheim
#2 - 2016-03-11 11:54:56 UTC
1. You can't activate any other modules while you're cloacked. Dat means - you can't hack in cloack.

2. You can't activate cloacking device while you're locked on by someone - other capsuleer's ship or rats. Your best bet is to warp out of site or run out of disruptor's range on MWD / AB and then warp out.
Teium Purvanen
Doomheim
#3 - 2016-03-11 12:00:37 UTC
How can you tell when you've been locked on?
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2016-03-11 12:08:38 UTC
Teium Purvanen wrote:
How can you tell when you've been locked on?

well that is what we call yellow boxing but in this situation you can tell because you can't cloak. Also I'm not entirely sure that they have to be locked. I think that if they are acquiring target then you can not cloak either but I am uncertain of that. However if I am correct then that means that the server has to receive your cloak command at least one second before your opponent tries to lock you.

again I'm not 100% on the lock versus acquiring thing all that I can say is that in the past my luck with trying to sneak past gate camps while cloaked has been so poor that I don't see how it could need to be a full lock. If it is then I'm just very bad at eve.

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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2016-03-11 12:11:42 UTC
yellow boxing is when the other player has a yellow box around their icon in the overview.

worth noting is that your ships computer tells you when you can't do certain things. For me it is hard to read the text. It goes by too fast. However you can have messages displayed on your screen so that you can see it. You'll have to wait until I get home from work and can log in if you want the specifics on this.

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Memphis Baas
#6 - 2016-03-11 12:29:36 UTC
As Ergh said, a yellow box appears around the other guy's icon in the overview, once he has locked you. The yellow switches to red once he starts an aggressive action (shooting, warp scrambling, etc.).

Keep in mind that most PVP'ers activate and overheat their modules with no targets, so that the guns shoot and the warp scrambles as soon as a target is locked, thus minimizing your advance warning.

People who prefer to mine semi-afk or not pay a lot of attention set up their client to automatically lock back 1 target (hit ESC, look in the options there). That way if they get target-locked by some NPC, the computer will start making a noise as it tries to target-lock the NPC. Being AFK means your death in PVP situations, of course.

Otherwise, if they acquire the target lock on you, you can't cloak. And keep in mind that there is server lag between their screen and yours; the server may declare you target-locked half-a-second to 1 second before you see it on your screen. There are lag scenarios where you see your cloak activate and then the server says "nonono, you're locked", followed by "... and also, dead".
Teium Purvanen
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-03-11 12:41:41 UTC
So that's what the yellow box means. I thought it was that they were close enough to lock you.

Thank you all yet again.

Trying to figure out the best fit for an Anathema hence the cloaking question.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-03-11 12:46:44 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Teium Purvanen wrote:
How can you tell when you've been locked on?

well that is what we call yellow boxing but in this situation you can tell because you can't cloak. Also I'm not entirely sure that they have to be locked. I think that if they are acquiring target then you can not cloak either but I am uncertain of that. However if I am correct then that means that the server has to receive your cloak command at least one second before your opponent tries to lock you.

again I'm not 100% on the lock versus acquiring thing all that I can say is that in the past my luck with trying to sneak past gate camps while cloaked has been so poor that I don't see how it could need to be a full lock. If it is then I'm just very bad at eve.


As long as you are not definately locked (Yellow boxed) then you can cloak.

If they are in the process of locking you, you will just cloak up and disappear from their overview etc.


Also @OP.

No active module can be used while cloaked. Any active module however will finish it's current cycle and then deactivate (this is used in the Cloak/MWD trick).

So you can't hack while cloaked and you can't MWD (constantly) away under cloak. But with a cov-ops cloak there should be no need to do that as you can just cloak up and then warp away to safety (safe spot or bounce between celestials at range).

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Teium Purvanen
Doomheim
#9 - 2016-03-11 12:59:42 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Teium Purvanen wrote:
How can you tell when you've been locked on?

well that is what we call yellow boxing but in this situation you can tell because you can't cloak. Also I'm not entirely sure that they have to be locked. I think that if they are acquiring target then you can not cloak either but I am uncertain of that. However if I am correct then that means that the server has to receive your cloak command at least one second before your opponent tries to lock you.

again I'm not 100% on the lock versus acquiring thing all that I can say is that in the past my luck with trying to sneak past gate camps while cloaked has been so poor that I don't see how it could need to be a full lock. If it is then I'm just very bad at eve.


As long as you are not definately locked (Yellow boxed) then you can cloak.

If they are in the process of locking you, you will just cloak up and disappear from their overview etc.


Also @OP.

No active module can be used while cloaked. Any active module however will finish it's current cycle and then deactivate (this is used in the Cloak/MWD trick).

So you can't hack while cloaked and you can't MWD (constantly) away under cloak. But with a cov-ops cloak there should be no need to do that as you can just cloak up and then warp away to safety (safe spot or bounce between celestials at range).



I was meaning that I cancel my hack, cloak then activate MWD to move away (warp if needed).

I'm presuming i'll need 4 Warp Stabs to get away from 2 Warp Scrams in an Anathema?
Memphis Baas
#10 - 2016-03-11 13:13:08 UTC
The Anathema has no drones, and 2 of its 3 high slots will be taken by the covops cloak and the probe launcher, leaving you with a pointless single rocket to do damage. The ship is much more suited for the PVP scout role; has enough CPU to fit a combat probe launcher and tackle, and the third high slot can be used for a cyno beacon. I think the only reason the Anathema has a virus strength bonus is because the Astero didn't get introduced until recently.

The Astero has almost the same bonuses for exploration as the Anathema, plus 3 full sets of small drones, giving it some versatility and the ability to kill something even if its high slots are occupied by the cloak and the core probe launcher. Doesn't quite have enough CPU to fit combat probes without compromises elsewhere, which moves the ship away from a PVP scout role and more firmly into a PVE exploration role.
Teium Purvanen
Doomheim
#11 - 2016-03-11 13:16:33 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
The Anathema has no drones, and 2 of its 3 high slots will be taken by the covops cloak and the probe launcher, leaving you with a pointless single rocket to do damage. The ship is much more suited for the PVP scout role; has enough CPU to fit a combat probe launcher and tackle, and the third high slot can be used for a cyno beacon. I think the only reason the Anathema has a virus strength bonus is because the Astero didn't get introduced until recently.

The Astero has almost the same bonuses for exploration as the Anathema, plus 3 full sets of small drones, giving it some versatility and the ability to kill something even if its high slots are occupied by the cloak and the core probe launcher. Doesn't quite have enough CPU to fit combat probes without compromises elsewhere, which moves the ship away from a PVP scout role and more firmly into a PVE exploration role.



Cant afford the Astero at the moment. Only got 50mil. I want to have at least 3 times the cost of an Astero before getting one
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2016-03-11 14:03:33 UTC
Teium Purvanen wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Teium Purvanen wrote:
How can you tell when you've been locked on?

well that is what we call yellow boxing but in this situation you can tell because you can't cloak. Also I'm not entirely sure that they have to be locked. I think that if they are acquiring target then you can not cloak either but I am uncertain of that. However if I am correct then that means that the server has to receive your cloak command at least one second before your opponent tries to lock you.

again I'm not 100% on the lock versus acquiring thing all that I can say is that in the past my luck with trying to sneak past gate camps while cloaked has been so poor that I don't see how it could need to be a full lock. If it is then I'm just very bad at eve.


As long as you are not definately locked (Yellow boxed) then you can cloak.

If they are in the process of locking you, you will just cloak up and disappear from their overview etc.


Also @OP.

No active module can be used while cloaked. Any active module however will finish it's current cycle and then deactivate (this is used in the Cloak/MWD trick).

So you can't hack while cloaked and you can't MWD (constantly) away under cloak. But with a cov-ops cloak there should be no need to do that as you can just cloak up and then warp away to safety (safe spot or bounce between celestials at range).



I was meaning that I cancel my hack, cloak then activate MWD to move away (warp if needed).

I'm presuming i'll need 4 Warp Stabs to get away from 2 Warp Scrams in an Anathema?


Again, you can't MWD after you cloaked as it is an active module.

And it's best to not MWD before you cloak either unless you are very very quick, as the sig-bloom from the MWD makes locking you so much faster that you are locked before you can cloak.



With a cov-ops cloak:

Cloak up and warp away quickly.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Teium Purvanen
Doomheim
#13 - 2016-03-11 14:22:49 UTC
J'Poll wrote:
Teium Purvanen wrote:
J'Poll wrote:
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Teium Purvanen wrote:
How can you tell when you've been locked on?

well that is what we call yellow boxing but in this situation you can tell because you can't cloak. Also I'm not entirely sure that they have to be locked. I think that if they are acquiring target then you can not cloak either but I am uncertain of that. However if I am correct then that means that the server has to receive your cloak command at least one second before your opponent tries to lock you.

again I'm not 100% on the lock versus acquiring thing all that I can say is that in the past my luck with trying to sneak past gate camps while cloaked has been so poor that I don't see how it could need to be a full lock. If it is then I'm just very bad at eve.


As long as you are not definately locked (Yellow boxed) then you can cloak.

If they are in the process of locking you, you will just cloak up and disappear from their overview etc.


Also @OP.

No active module can be used while cloaked. Any active module however will finish it's current cycle and then deactivate (this is used in the Cloak/MWD trick).

So you can't hack while cloaked and you can't MWD (constantly) away under cloak. But with a cov-ops cloak there should be no need to do that as you can just cloak up and then warp away to safety (safe spot or bounce between celestials at range).



I was meaning that I cancel my hack, cloak then activate MWD to move away (warp if needed).

I'm presuming i'll need 4 Warp Stabs to get away from 2 Warp Scrams in an Anathema?


Again, you can't MWD after you cloaked as it is an active module.

And it's best to not MWD before you cloak either unless you are very very quick, as the sig-bloom from the MWD makes locking you so much faster that you are locked before you can cloak.



With a cov-ops cloak:

Cloak up and warp away quickly.



Duuh silly me, of course you cant use MWD sorry
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#14 - 2016-03-11 15:10:04 UTC
You can activate your MWD if you start it right after you cloak and it will run for a cycle, putting more distance between you and your adversary.

ISD Fractal

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-03-11 17:22:51 UTC
ISD Fractal wrote:
You can activate your MWD if you start it right after you cloak and it will run for a cycle, putting more distance between you and your adversary.


While true, it isnt foolproof.

You have to get that timing exactly right

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club

Helios Anduath
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2016-03-11 17:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Helios Anduath
Teium Purvanen wrote:
I was meaning that I cancel my hack, cloak then activate MWD to move away (warp if needed).
...
I'm presuming i'll need 4 Warp Stabs to get away from 2 Warp Scrams in an Anathema?


You don't actually need to cancel your hack. If you move out of range or enter warp, the hack cancels automatically so don't waste time looking for the X. Also, one tip you may not have heard yet, turn off auto repeat on your hacking modules - you only need to run them once to start the hack so when they are sitting there cycling, they are burning away your cap.

Warp core stabs are not a magic bullet. Faction scrams exist which have 3-points of disruption and it is not uncommon for dedicated explorer hunters to be using at least one.

Generally, as an explorer you have more chance of surviving if you don't get caught at all. That means flying smart by paying attention to who is in local, spamming D-Scan, watching overview, etc. and being slippery. Personally, I prefer a faster align time as it makes it much harder to catch.

With people warping in on you, you should see them appear on D-Scan unless they are a Force Recon. Even with a force recon, you will see them appear on grid before they can lock you. With cloakies, except for stealth bombers and black ops battleships (which cannot warp cloaked) everything has at least a few seconds delay before they can start to lock you.

Memphis Baas wrote:
The Astero has almost the same bonuses for exploration as the Anathema,


The Astero is a better scanner until Covert Ops level IV. The difference between a Covops V covops and an Astero can be significant. The real benefits of the astero are its versatility, as you have said, and it's agility (you can get it below 2s-to-warp very easily to make it rather hard to catch outside of a bubble).

OP - as an asside, what level is your covert ops skill? If it is 1 or 2 (10% or 20% bonus), then the Magnate (37.5% bonus) will have significantly better probe strength than your Anathema.


J'Poll wrote:
Again, you can't MWD after you cloaked as it is an active module.

And it's best to not MWD before you cloak either unless you are very very quick, as the sig-bloom from the MWD makes locking you so much faster that you are locked before you can cloak.


Not strictly true. When you cloak, there is a few seconds while the animation plays where you can activate modules that will run for a cycle. You become unlockable the moment you hit cloak (subject to latency) so you can hit cloak, pause and then hit your MWD so that the sig bloom has no impact. Yes, you have to be on the ball but timing is not that critical.

OP, one thing to remeber is that your align time increases significantly when you activate a propulsion module (it adds mass, making you less agile) you you would take longer to enter warp if you cloak and MWD.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#17 - 2016-03-11 17:47:34 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Teium Purvanen wrote:
How can you tell when you've been locked on?

well that is what we call yellow boxing but in this situation you can tell because you can't cloak. Also I'm not entirely sure that they have to be locked. I think that if they are acquiring target then you can not cloak either but I am uncertain of that. However if I am correct then that means that the server has to receive your cloak command at least one second before your opponent tries to lock you.

again I'm not 100% on the lock versus acquiring thing all that I can say is that in the past my luck with trying to sneak past gate camps while cloaked has been so poor that I don't see how it could need to be a full lock. If it is then I'm just very bad at eve.

I can clarify a little here,

Yellow box = target locked , no cloak for you and have a yellow box on the overview

You can cloak while they locking right up until they have a lock at which point you see the yellow box.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-03-11 18:02:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Memphis Baas wrote:
The Anathema has no drones, and 2 of its 3 high slots will be taken by the covops cloak and the probe launcher, leaving you with a pointless single rocket to do damage. The ship is much more suited for the PVP scout role; has enough CPU to fit a combat probe launcher and tackle, and the third high slot can be used for a cyno beacon. I think the only reason the Anathema has a virus strength bonus is because the Astero didn't get introduced until recently.

The Astero has almost the same bonuses for exploration as the Anathema, plus 3 full sets of small drones, giving it some versatility and the ability to kill something even if its high slots are occupied by the cloak and the core probe launcher. Doesn't quite have enough CPU to fit combat probes without compromises elsewhere, which moves the ship away from a PVP scout role and more firmly into a PVE exploration role.

Completely backwards IMO. Not wrong about combat scanning but a hacking fit Astero isn't going to kill anything except t1 frigs, whereas if you fit it for combat it actually makes a wonderful combat/tackle ship. I might use an Anathema for combat probing but it doesn't have nearly the tank for a tackle ship as the Astero and there's nothing wrong with using it for exploration (why do you need damage on a PVE exploration ship again....?) Not to mention the Astero is much pricier which is completely unnecessary for hacking sites if you can fly a cov ops.

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Titan's Lament

Memphis Baas
#19 - 2016-03-11 18:30:08 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Completely backwards IMO.
I agree about the Anathema; not sure if the Astero can be fitted with expanded probe launcher, cloak, AND tanky combat tackle, that probe launcher requires a lot of CPU. Guess I'll have to play with it some more.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2016-03-11 18:40:00 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Cara Forelli wrote:
Completely backwards IMO.
I agree about the Anathema; not sure if the Astero can be fitted with expanded probe launcher, cloak, AND tanky combat tackle, that probe launcher requires a lot of CPU. Guess I'll have to play with it some more.

combat scout astero is literally just an expanded probe launcher you can fly around on .

you need to fill all the lows with co-processors to online both it and the cloak with just enough spare cpu for a couple of mids including a compac mwd.

excellent ship for a scout alt as you can be scanning a warping cloaked in about a week and doing so damn well for about a plex worth of sp/training.
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