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Project Discovery - March Update feedback thread

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Darkblad
Doomheim
#41 - 2016-03-03 22:50:47 UTC
The new Professor appears to be younger. If the surviving Professor really is the one that will host the Prorject. Her Portrait within the PD UI still is like this.
Intended?
CCP Wonderboy
C C P
C C P Alliance
#42 - 2016-03-04 10:26:45 UTC
Oktura Ostus wrote:
CCP Wonderboy wrote:

I too like the new color filter ^-^


Thanks for new filter! It now possible to view "holes" in blue cells. Small feature request to the filter: LMB on red color makes red visible, blue and green hidden. Is it possible that RMB on any color do reverse: hide it, and show all others?


I've played a bit and find out this sample: http://i.imgur.com/MTQWznE.png 1600000854 As for me it's clear that there is "cytoskeleton" (marked in red circle), it's exactly the same as in examples, but it's marked as negative result. May be it's calculated from most often results, but such things disappoints a bit.

May be it's possible to give ability to ask for recheck wrong results for players with high accuracy? With comment why to recheck.



Thanks, i'll forward this to the HPA to see if they want to change their metadata for this task.
HPA Dichroic
H P A
C C P Alliance
#43 - 2016-03-04 11:59:34 UTC
Thanks for playing and helping us test this!

In this case actually the annotation is correct as we at the HPA have manually curated the training tasks to ensure you have some quality feedback before venturing into the unknown.

Here you have highlighted the cytokinetic bridge as indicated by the two dense red points extending towards each other. *Remember, you are only looking for the pattern in the green signal.*

For this staining pattern you should see a bright green signal between the two red protrusions creating a small "bridge" between the cells. In this case, there is green signal everywhere between the cells, not just at this bridge. This indicates the protein labels the cell junctions, not the cytokinetic bridge.

A slight caveat: If the green signal was much much brighter in this bridge between the red protrusions than the other areas showing cell junctions, cytokinetic bridge could be labeled.

For the unknown samples, you will see a percentage of players voting for each class. We then try to estimate if the community has reached a consensus.


HELP ME: Does anyone know how to set up email alerts for these forums? I see that I can receive notification on this topic, at the bottom of the post, but I would love to know automatically when a thread or post is created mentioning Project Discovery so I can give timely feed back. Sorry I'm a total noob to this EVE world Big smile

Oktura Ostus wrote:
CCP Wonderboy wrote:

I too like the new color filter ^-^


Thanks for new filter! It now possible to view "holes" in blue cells. Small feature request to the filter: LMB on red color makes red visible, blue and green hidden. Is it possible that RMB on any color do reverse: hide it, and show all others?


I've played a bit and find out this sample: http://i.imgur.com/MTQWznE.png 1600000854 As for me it's clear that there is "cytoskeleton" (marked in red circle), it's exactly the same as in examples, but it's marked as negative result. May be it's calculated from most often results, but such things disappoints a bit.

May be it's possible to give ability to ask for recheck wrong results for players with high accuracy? With comment why to recheck.
Oktura Ostus
THE CORP WITH NO NAME
#44 - 2016-03-05 12:52:09 UTC
HPA Dichroic wrote:

For this staining pattern you should see a bright green signal between the two red protrusions creating a small "bridge" between the cells. In this case, there is green signal everywhere between the cells, not just at this bridge. This indicates the protein labels the cell junctions, not the cytokinetic bridge.

A slight caveat: If the green signal was much much brighter in this bridge between the red protrusions than the other areas showing cell junctions, cytokinetic bridge could be labeled.

For the unknown samples, you will see a percentage of players voting for each class. We then try to estimate if the community has reached a consensus.


Thank you for clarification!

Thus returning to my proposal of "antiexamples" or misleading examples, when some choise looks right for this sample, but there are small important detail that might be missed and cause wrong answer. For people who wants reach high accuracy instead of fast money :)

For instance, picture above could be added as "antiexample" for "cytokinetic bridge" with small text about importance of visible green dot between red parts of the bridge.



Sir Constantin
#45 - 2016-03-05 13:06:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Constantin
Is Project Discovery working as intended?
I did like 60 samples and there wasn't any community vote, it always showed the 0%
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#46 - 2016-03-06 11:20:19 UTC
HPA Dichroic wrote:

HELP ME: Does anyone know how to set up email alerts for these forums? I see that I can receive notification on this topic, at the bottom of the post, but I would love to know automatically when a thread or post is created mentioning Project Discovery so I can give timely feed back. Sorry I'm a total noob to this EVE world Big smile

Sadly no. Perhaps CCP can give you access to some space magic API, but the forums do not have functionality like that.

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

HPA Dichroic
H P A
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2016-03-07 09:23:26 UTC
Oktura Ostus wrote:
HPA Dichroic wrote:

For this staining pattern you should see a bright green signal between the two red protrusions creating a small "bridge" between the cells. In this case, there is green signal everywhere between the cells, not just at this bridge. This indicates the protein labels the cell junctions, not the cytokinetic bridge.

A slight caveat: If the green signal was much much brighter in this bridge between the red protrusions than the other areas showing cell junctions, cytokinetic bridge could be labeled.

For the unknown samples, you will see a percentage of players voting for each class. We then try to estimate if the community has reached a consensus.


Thank you for clarification!

Thus returning to my proposal of "antiexamples" or misleading examples, when some choise looks right for this sample, but there are small important detail that might be missed and cause wrong answer. For people who wants reach high accuracy instead of fast money :)

For instance, picture above could be added as "antiexample" for "cytokinetic bridge" with small text about importance of visible green dot between red parts of the bridge.





We aren't currently planning "antiexamples" partially because it is hard to predict what you all might find challenging. What we are planning is a "image of the week" where we choose an image from the forums and/or the list marked with "abnormal sample" (see new in-game button) to explain the sample further. We are working with CCP games to try to also be able to directly credit players that lead us to these interesting examples too Blink

Additionally, I am planning to make a simple video of myself playing the game and explaining my choices so that people can see some of the logic that I use when evaluating the images.

@Linus Gorp: Thanks for the reply, sad that I can't do that. Sad

@Sir Constantin: As far as I know it is. If you are getting unclassified samples it means you are among the first to evaluate them! 0% is a little misleading because in this case it really just means that not enough people have voted yet to give you a percentage. You should see unclassified samples some of the time (particularly if you have high accuracy), but it should not be every image, if it is let me know.
Yadaryon Vondawn
Vicanthya
#48 - 2016-03-07 11:35:16 UTC
Is it possible @CCP Wonderboy or @CCP Paradox that the questions in this post are adressed? It should go live tomorrow and I am concerned it could be optimized, or at least clarified, a bit more :)
Oktura Ostus
THE CORP WITH NO NAME
#49 - 2016-03-08 20:50:59 UTC
HPA Dichroic wrote:

What we are planning is a "image of the week" where we choose an image from the forums and/or the list marked with "abnormal sample" (see new in-game button) to explain the sample further.


This would help me to better understand rules, thanks.

Could you please also include in that list cases when majority of players (75% or something like this) selected exactly same wrong choise. I think such samples could be automatically filtered with simple script, so no manual work. And they should reveal common errors done by players, and common misunderstanding points in the rules.


Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#50 - 2016-03-09 13:19:45 UTC
Can you please display the explanation panel below the category that I am looking at ?
When you, for example, mouse-over the "Nucleus" button in the NUCLEUS category, it leaves very little space for my mouse to mouse-over "Nucleoplasm" and "Nuclear bodys (few)", so I either have to move my mouse away or have to start at the right side all the time so the pop-up doesn't block the next category.
Motorbit
Moira.
#51 - 2016-03-09 13:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Motorbit
yeah...
did this some 15 min.

im fairly sure that some of the "correct" answers are wrong.
at least, after two cases where the "correct" answer was obviously wrong and my answer (tho maybe not correct) was obviously less wrong, i removed the icon from my necom.

now, im not saying that im the top biologist. i realy have no clue about this.
but at least during the tutorials i missed only once. i also understand that a result is "correct" if it hits a threshold where enough players belive it to be correct.
now, of course, i may be wrong here, but at least to me it seems this is not working very well.
Lasse R Farnsworth
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#52 - 2016-03-09 15:26:58 UTC
Well Feedback: The abnormal Sample tickbox haqs no explanation .. and it would be cool to look back at the images if you see your acurracy drop .. just to learn
Rainboq Spencer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2016-03-09 17:48:55 UTC
It'd be nice to have a way to mark a sample as being out of focus, I've had a few there were impossible to decipher because the sample was completely out of focus it all became a giant haze.
CCP Wonderboy
C C P
C C P Alliance
#54 - 2016-03-09 17:55:40 UTC
Rainboq Spencer wrote:
It'd be nice to have a way to mark a sample as being out of focus, I've had a few there were impossible to decipher because the sample was completely out of focus it all became a giant haze.



Use the "Abnormal Sample" checkbox :)
Rainboq Spencer
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2016-03-09 17:57:26 UTC
CCP Wonderboy wrote:
Rainboq Spencer wrote:
It'd be nice to have a way to mark a sample as being out of focus, I've had a few there were impossible to decipher because the sample was completely out of focus it all became a giant haze.



Use the "Abnormal Sample" checkbox :)

Will do :) Maybe have that in a tool tip for the button?
Eodp Ellecon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2016-03-09 18:38:36 UTC
Finding the baseline sample box not being in a fixed location annoying.
Requires scrolling right to left to check variants.

Also unable to select two options to make a comparison of baseline samples against each other.

These would help with ascertaining the unknown sample leading to better accuracy attempts.
Konstantin Reshetnikov
Dropbears Anonymous
Brave Collective
#57 - 2016-03-09 18:42:50 UTC
I just came across a strange sample and wasn't entirely sure what to mark it as.
Sample and results
What exactly is this and how should it have been marked?
Vypera Blackneck
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2016-03-09 20:17:28 UTC
Ok, I feel like say couple of things about this mini-game.
First of all I love it... well I loved it more some hours ago. But it still got me. I'm @ rank 14 atm.
I was working up myself to 54.6 accuracy slowly and suddenly it dropped 0.9% at once... some more samples and it was down to 52.5
what the...?

So the tutorial was fine, but it didn't explain a thing. I miss the explanation of the basic functionality of the window elements... for example as some said before, what is the abnormal check box for?

There's no explanation what are the percentages on the buttons after submitting one. Would be nice to learn from them but it is just annoying as it is.

I also miss the rules of the "game" there are no rules explained. What are my choices should be based on? Less but more accurate better or should I pick all the seemingly fitting patterns.
Is the "right" answer based on a scientific fact or it just simply based on the answer of the EVE player base... if the case is the second, I'm out, thanks.

I like to think that I help with playing. But after some hours clicking it just became annoying. It is just a hopeless guess work since no info, no feedback what should we do or done wrong.

Teach us and you will reach your goal.

Thanks for letting us participate and enrich this game!
Keep up the good job!

o7

Vyp
Valkyrie Quantum
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2016-03-09 20:54:18 UTC
While I personally thus far absolutely love the idea and think the implementation was fairly well done, I would say the following could improve the experience.
--For tutorial questions perhaps some small paragraph explaining why something is what it is. *not major issue*
--The biggest issue perhaps make it account wide scoring instead of character base while as a programmer myself I see the issue of what character to assign rewards to *probably just a checker on which one is active I would imagine* I just find it slightly silly that progress needs to be restarted if you use multiple characters, especially as it forces you to redo the tutorial.

Other than that amazing job CCP I truly hope this project is expanded upon in order to help the research of even more organizations.
Lasse R Farnsworth
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#60 - 2016-03-10 07:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lasse R Farnsworth
Another small feedback: The cell to cell variation answer (wich is somewhat subjetional) should not count to your accuracy rating. Right now I have the feeling that I'm punished for using that button ...