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Star Wars the Old Republic just another failure of the failed MMO Genre

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Barakkus
#21 - 2012-01-11 17:05:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakkus
2bhammered wrote:

years? back to the, wait for hyped game? bah, can't be bothered, I was excited about SWTOR 4 years ago, I refuse to think I can't get a good MMO until 2016 and if that is the case then screw the industry, I will not put another cent into it until 2020 in that case.


I feel the same way honestly.
I have a great MMO idea, actually came up with it in 2000, all the people I had to work on it with me flaked out after about 8 months of going through the planning stages. This was before I knew what an MMO was and thought I had something no one else had thought of yet.

I may pursue it again, but going it solo looks like it would never actually be completed, especially since I suck in the graphics department. Unfortunately, EVE Online was released...which is very similar to the idea I had back in 2000, not quite, but very similar.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
stoicfaux
#22 - 2012-01-11 17:06:34 UTC
I don't think we'll see anything revolutionary on the MMORPG front since the underlying game mechanics are pretty simplistic and thus dated (dated == gamers are now jaded.)

My SWAG is that MMORPGs won't be spiffy unless:
* the company hires one Gamemaster/storyteller per group to generate deep, customized content for the players,
* the players create the content, i.e. Eve-like but without the arbitrary rules/mechanics,
* someone uses IBM's Watson program to expand quests, dialogue and plots into something memorable.

Personally, I'm betting on Watson, with a dash of player created content.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#23 - 2012-01-11 17:17:34 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
2bhammered wrote:

years? back to the, wait for hyped game? bah, can't be bothered, I was excited about SWTOR 4 years ago, I refuse to think I can't get a good MMO until 2016 and if that is the case then screw the industry, I will not put another cent into it until 2020 in that case.


I feel the same way honestly.
I have a great MMO idea, actually came up with it in 2000, all the people I had to work on it with me flaked out after about 8 months of going through the planning stages. This was before I knew what an MMO was and thought I had something no one else had thought of yet.

I may pursue it again, but going it solo looks like it would never actually be completed, especially since I suck in the graphics department. Unfortunately, EVE Online was released...which is very similar to the idea I had back in 2000, not quite, but very similar.



I may have been joking before when I said my little sister could do a better job at designing an MMO than Bioware and others. But it is not far from it, I bet both you and I and many people I know have great design ideas and better MMO concepts than these big companies, the very least we could design better improvments on existing content. I hope someone like yourself will make a break through, if you can or want to please feelfree and offer the idea here, promise not to steal it. Heck I wish companies would steal my ideas, at least I would have more fun than that garbage they release.

Also why doesn't CCP make a new MMO? better one, a new engine etc. more stuff
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#24 - 2012-01-11 17:21:09 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
I don't think we'll see anything revolutionary on the MMORPG front since the underlying game mechanics are pretty simplistic and thus dated (dated == gamers are now jaded.)

My SWAG is that MMORPGs won't be spiffy unless:
* the company hires one Gamemaster/storyteller per group to generate deep, customized content for the players,
* the players create the content, i.e. Eve-like but without the arbitrary rules/mechanics,
* someone uses IBM's Watson program to expand quests, dialogue and plots into something memorable.

Personally, I'm betting on Watson, with a dash of player created content.




Watson, wow, that would be amazing! :)
Reiisha
#25 - 2012-01-11 17:21:30 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
OP


Comparing TOR point for point to WoW and then writing it off?
Citing Crysis 2 as a good FPS?



I dunno but i smell troll.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#26 - 2012-01-11 17:30:37 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Reiisha wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
OP


Comparing TOR point for point to WoW and then writing it off?
Citing Crysis 2 as a good FPS?



I dunno but i smell troll.



Ehm? I quote Crysis because of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMKx6eW7TzI I quote Portal 2 becauseof innovation. What do you prefer? BF3? MW3?...

Comparing WoW and TOR is natural when TOR copied most things from WOW and or the fact WoW is nr1 MMO in MMO's history and thus sets the standard for MMO genre. I don't play WoW anymore because I got bored of it, but fact is TOR is even worse than WoW in almost everyway except 1, that1 thing is a story and quests having voice overs with choices, only 1 or 2 % of that is unique to a class and new and refreshing after playing 1 character to level 50 which takes a week. Rest is canned repeated same stuff over and over for all other quests, it also happens to get old after 2 weeks, at least to most people. Also the stories are pretty bad writing and lore, KOTOR 1 and 2 had better story and quests and Lore than this game, imp agent had ok story, BH decent and smuggler jedi and sith's stories were worse than a B sci fi movie.

After that time, what does SWTOR offer?


Also the only one I have seen in this thread that looks like a troll is you with that comment. I have no idea why you think to accuse me of being one... it is strangest reply I have received in this forum possibly.


PS: What you think Bioware did to Darth Revan? No one in their right mind can agree with what they did, infact, I bet my grandpah without any form of imaginaion who also hates sci fi etc could do more justice to Darth Revan and previous KOTOR games and lore than this MMO did.
Barakkus
#27 - 2012-01-11 19:27:56 UTC
2bhammered wrote:

I may have been joking before when I said my little sister could do a better job at designing an MMO than Bioware and others. But it is not far from it, I bet both you and I and many people I know have great design ideas and better MMO concepts than these big companies, the very least we could design better improvments on existing content. I hope someone like yourself will make a break through, if you can or want to please feelfree and offer the idea here, promise not to steal it. Heck I wish companies would steal my ideas, at least I would have more fun than that garbage they release.

Also why doesn't CCP make a new MMO? better one, a new engine etc. more stuff


It was basically an RTS with FPS + MMO set in a huge futuristic universe with a lot of elements similar to EVE, but not the same backstory or mechanics. With the addition of DUST to EVE it pretty much encompasses everything I was going to try and achieve.

...someone always beats me to it... :(

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#28 - 2012-01-11 19:42:33 UTC
I still have hope in eve.

And also looking forward to Warhammer 40k MMO, and the recently announced fallout MMO

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#29 - 2012-01-11 19:43:09 UTC
Barakkus wrote:
2bhammered wrote:

I may have been joking before when I said my little sister could do a better job at designing an MMO than Bioware and others. But it is not far from it, I bet both you and I and many people I know have great design ideas and better MMO concepts than these big companies, the very least we could design better improvments on existing content. I hope someone like yourself will make a break through, if you can or want to please feelfree and offer the idea here, promise not to steal it. Heck I wish companies would steal my ideas, at least I would have more fun than that garbage they release.

Also why doesn't CCP make a new MMO? better one, a new engine etc. more stuff


It was basically an RTS with FPS + MMO set in a huge futuristic universe with a lot of elements similar to EVE, but not the same backstory or mechanics. With the addition of DUST to EVE it pretty much encompasses everything I was going to try and achieve.

...someone always beats me to it... :(



lol sounds awesome and similar to me and my friends dream MMO in some ways.

I had dreams about a Halo MMO with EvE mechanics once :)

I heard of this Dust but know nothing about it except it is for ps3 console game?

I do like your idea even if it I probably envision it different with the amount to go on, but an awesome RTSor FPS with good MMO mechanics is always something I'd be interested in.
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#30 - 2012-01-11 19:45:02 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Tallianna Avenkarde wrote:
I still have hope in eve.

And also looking forward to Warhammer 40k MMO, and the recently announced fallout MMO



A new warhammer MMO? please say it is made by anyone but EA/BW/MYTHIC andhopefully someone good?

There will be a Fallout MMO? wait by bethesda or what? If so you got my attention, heck, I wish bethesda make an elder scrolls MMO after having put hundreds of hours into Skyrim.


As for EvE, I think only MMO that I have played that delivered was EvE, SWG, FF11, Phantasy star Online and of course WoW, problem is they are all too old for me now, yes even EvE, if anything I wish they make EvE 2 instead of making more expansions, it is 2012 afterall. EvE got old and boring to me after 2007, that was 5 years ago now. It is not bad, just same old same old and whatever. I also experienced most of the content and participated in epic wars etc.
Spineker
#31 - 2012-01-11 20:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Spineker
SWG was the suck on release and was almost dead by the end of 2003. It survived barely but it was horrible.

WoW was always horrible to me and dumbed down MMO for the masses. The cartoon graphics was the worse ever and totally killed "getting into" the game for me. I played it for a week at the most. Was like the Looney Tunes of MMO's horrific.

DAOC was fantastic, miss that one it had all the magic from raiding to RVR/PVP interesting classes etc.

WAR was suckage when released but by the time all the servers were dead the game was actually a lot of fun and I played it all the way to 40/80 DOK. Was a blast and the community was lots of fun. WAR had everything WoW didn't and was a far better game just got a bad rep at the start unfortunately.

SWTOR is a single player RPG played online with lots of other people you get to shoot at sometimes and maybe team up in a 4 man to run a set instance mission. The RPG side is fantastic but they forgot the little piece called "Massive" and sharded teh entire world and I think in 45 levels I only spoke 4 or 5 times in general chat. It is that bad and the game is anti-community anti-grouping anti-fun.
Atticus Fynch
#32 - 2012-01-11 20:10:06 UTC
2bhammered wrote:


The days of eve online and star wars galaxies and WoW and FF11 and Guild wars and many others all released over 5 years ago soon a decade ago it makes you wonder what the hell is wrong with the MMO genre and developers.



Problem is that these MMO developers are more interested in milking as much money out of customers with gimicks and themes, than providing quality entertaiment.

Instead os saying, -what can we make that is fun- they say -what can we make to fleece the sheep-?

CCP was guilty of this too with Incarna. Hopefully they got a wake-up from the community (that provides their paychecks).

[b]★★★Cargo Pilots Unite!!!★★★ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132[/b]
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#33 - 2012-01-11 20:19:02 UTC
Atticus Fynch wrote:
2bhammered wrote:


The days of eve online and star wars galaxies and WoW and FF11 and Guild wars and many others all released over 5 years ago soon a decade ago it makes you wonder what the hell is wrong with the MMO genre and developers.



Problem is that these MMO developers are more interested in milking as much money out of customers with gimicks and themes, than providing quality entertaiment.

Instead os saying, -what can we make that is fun- they say -what can we make to fleece the sheep-?

CCP was guilty of this too with Incarna. Hopefully they got a wake-up from the community (that provides their paychecks).



Yeah which brings back my point though, since those developers were the only ones with brains to develop an entertaining MMO all I got to look forward to is them hopefully making a new MMO if I want something new and fresh that does not suck. But Blizzards new MMO will be out maybe 2014? And I have no idea if it will be worth the wait, GW2 is when? and is CCP even working on concept for a new MMO?

But you are right, if they are succesfull, very few are, they will milk it for almost a decade meaning most likely one will be bored to death way before the MMO ends or they start making a new one.

Also with Incarnia CCP screwed up, but it was more like "the last straw". I was already bored and stopped paying monthly in 2007, now I use ingame ISK that goes fast to get, buy a PLEX, use said PLEX, set new skill training /log off
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#34 - 2012-01-11 21:57:25 UTC
2bhammered wrote:
(...)

Also why doesn't CCP make a new MMO? better one, a new engine etc. more stuff


They used to be doing so, and was called World of Darkness. Then they fired almost everyone working on it, nearly shut the division working on it, and now we can't even get some love for EVE's non-nullsecwhiners.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#35 - 2012-01-11 22:00:36 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
2bhammered wrote:
(...)

Also why doesn't CCP make a new MMO? better one, a new engine etc. more stuff


They used to be doing so, and was called World of Darkness. Then they fired almost everyone working on it, nearly shut the division working on it, and now we can't even get some love for EVE's non-nullsecwhiners.



wow I never even heard of CCP working on that. That is terrible... as for the CCP love, meh, even if they give me love it is still a love that feels dated after a decade...
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#36 - 2012-01-12 00:50:36 UTC
2bhammered wrote:



... and or the fact WoW is nr1 MMO in MMO's history and thus sets the standard for MMO genre.
After that time, what does SWTOR offer?

.



Well, WESTERN HISTORY... Eastern MMO's have usually twice the number of accounts and PCU of WOW .

But I get what you feel.

Unfortunately the Asian MMO template is well, a bit grindy , but I would love to check out that monster of an MMO that legendary westward journey is, but they dont have english shards :*(

With that amount of people and the way it plays with the isometric view it might actually be diff or good.

But back on your topic, I have ranted for a quite while, since Star Trek and several other MMO's came out in the past years, about the lack of real content development in the MMO Genre.

I mean, on how many MMO's I can grind to endgame and then queue up for purple gear grinding off generic_evil_monster_boss OVER AND OVER?

I mean why ALL GAMES need to have levels for instance? EVEs system is imho a nice way to tackle the level template, we really need something different out there, unfortunately Vampire the Masquerade MMO was sucking too much blood out of eve to be of any real benefit to EVE itself.

Why can't we have a diff set/ruleset/laws/mechanics of doing/achieving things in a game besides the true/tried/boring XP grind and itemization nightmare that most MMO's offer these days?

I don't know, if I knew some drug lords here in Panama willing to invest in a new type of MMO and they just wanted to launder all that money and explained to them the returns would take some years and safeguarded my way to not be killed for not delivering on time I would gather up a bunch of people to begin the process of creating a new type of MMO, so many good ideas OUT THERE in the WILD but no one with the clout/money to actually develop them!!! Sad

So sad, the current state of MMO's these days, just a rehash and remix of the same old tired smelly sock and unwashed undies.

They were bright and sweet smelling once, but no more.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
2bhammered
Cyberpunk 2077
#37 - 2012-01-12 01:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: 2bhammered
Brujo Loco wrote:
2bhammered wrote:



... and or the fact WoW is nr1 MMO in MMO's history and thus sets the standard for MMO genre.
After that time, what does SWTOR offer?

.



Well, WESTERN HISTORY... Eastern MMO's have usually twice the number of accounts and PCU of WOW .

But I get what you feel.

Unfortunately the Asian MMO template is well, a bit grindy , but I would love to check out that monster of an MMO that legendary westward journey is, but they dont have english shards :*(

With that amount of people and the way it plays with the isometric view it might actually be diff or good.

But back on your topic, I have ranted for a quite while, since Star Trek and several other MMO's came out in the past years, about the lack of real content development in the MMO Genre.

I mean, on how many MMO's I can grind to endgame and then queue up for purple gear grinding off generic_evil_monster_boss OVER AND OVER?

I mean why ALL GAMES need to have levels for instance? EVEs system is imho a nice way to tackle the level template, we really need something different out there, unfortunately Vampire the Masquerade MMO was sucking too much blood out of eve to be of any real benefit to EVE itself.

Why can't we have a diff set/ruleset/laws/mechanics of doing/achieving things in a game besides the true/tried/boring XP grind and itemization nightmare that most MMO's offer these days?

I don't know, if I knew some drug lords here in Panama willing to invest in a new type of MMO and they just wanted to launder all that money and explained to them the returns would take some years and safeguarded my way to not be killed for not delivering on time I would gather up a bunch of people to begin the process of creating a new type of MMO, so many good ideas OUT THERE in the WILD but no one with the clout/money to actually develop them!!! Sad

So sad, the current state of MMO's these days, just a rehash and remix of the same old tired smelly sock and unwashed undies.

They were bright and sweet smelling once, but no more.



Yeah I always forget since I never hear about those asian MMO's. I did play FF11 and back then I enjoyed it a lot. Perhaps they should try to break into the western market just as much as games like WOW pushes for the asian market.

I do pretty much agree with you on everything, reading up more and more about GW2 since it was suggested I do have to say it looks interesting, the other guy said it will be years but I just read it is in closed beta.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#38 - 2012-01-12 09:38:43 UTC
Off topic posts removed. Please stay on topic and polite, thank you.

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
Solinuas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2012-01-12 10:23:52 UTC
I disagree, SWTOR is well done and entertaining, it has real story, unlike every other mmo. it feels a lot more like a singleplayer game with other people a lot of the time.

and on the topic of MMO's that are great Monster Hunter Frontier is spectacular
Barakkus
#40 - 2012-01-12 14:50:15 UTC
2bhammered wrote:

lol sounds awesome and similar to me and my friends dream MMO in some ways.

I had dreams about a Halo MMO with EvE mechanics once :)

I heard of this Dust but know nothing about it except it is for ps3 console game?

I do like your idea even if it I probably envision it different with the amount to go on, but an awesome RTSor FPS with good MMO mechanics is always something I'd be interested in.


The RTS portion would be similar to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overlord_(1990_video_game) with a little bit of a different game I once played that was similar to Tradewars (BBS MUD).

The FPS would have been a BF2142 type FPS, but with objectives like DUST.

http://youtu.be/yytbDZrw1jc