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Group of ships for soloing c5s?
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Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-03-05 23:30:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
I'm trying to make a small, 1 client fleet for soloing c5s, gypsy style. Plan is to get into a c5, do the current combat, data, relic, and maybe gas sites, move on. Eventually I would leave the c5, offload all the loot to an alt (preferably in highsec), and then head back in. I could make trips out in a Blockade Runner, but do to wormholes collapsing, I would rather not...

My current ship setup is a Vargur for the combat sites, a Cheetah for the data/relic sites, and a Prospect for the gas sites.

My problem is figuring out what ship to use as transport.

Options:

  1. Bowhead with everything in it.
    2. Upside is that I can exit directly into highsec.
    Downside is that I don't get capital escalations, and have a vulnerable ship.
  2. Nidhoggur with everything in it. I would probably leave out the Marauder and just use the carrier for sites. Bonus is I get the escalations. I'm not sure if its possible to solo c5s in a carrier though. I might bring a blockade runner for leaving, or have an alt account enter the WH and trade with the carrier.
    3. Upsides are that I get escalations, as well as carrying less ships. And the carrier can defend itself. I acn also have all my ships with me as I run combat sites, rather than leaving them at a safe spot. I also may be able to take a mining barge for mass mining, although idk if its worth it. Same with a salvager.
    Downsides are that I can't exit directly into highsec, or if I want to, I have to leave my ships in a WH to make the run. I also can't fit into as many WHs. How rare are cap-sized wormholes? EDIT: can a bowhead fit into non-cap?


I'm heavily leaning towards the carrier, especially with the fighter changes coming soon (long before I'm ready to do this). To get loot out I would go to a WH 1 jump from HS, have a blockade runner or other transport come to me (on an alt account), and have it take the loot to Jita.

Any advice is welcome!
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2016-03-06 11:43:04 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Ligraph wrote:
I'm trying to make a small, 1 client fleet for soloing c5s, gypsy style. Plan is to get into a c5, do the current combat, data, relic, and maybe gas sites, move on. Eventually I would leave the c5, offload all the loot to an alt (preferably in highsec), and then head back in. I could make trips out in a Blockade Runner, but do to wormholes collapsing, I would rather not...

My current ship setup is a Vargur for the combat sites, a Cheetah for the data/relic sites, and a Prospect for the gas sites.

My problem is figuring out what ship to use as transport.

Options:

  1. Bowhead with everything in it.
    2. Upside is that I can exit directly into highsec.
    Downside is that I don't get capital escalations, and have a vulnerable ship.
  2. Nidhoggur with everything in it. I would probably leave out the Marauder and just use the carrier for sites. Bonus is I get the escalations. I'm not sure if its possible to solo c5s in a carrier though. I might bring a blockade runner for leaving, or have an alt account enter the WH and trade with the carrier.
    3. Upsides are that I get escalations, as well as carrying less ships. And the carrier can defend itself. I acn also have all my ships with me as I run combat sites, rather than leaving them at a safe spot. I also may be able to take a mining barge for mass mining, although idk if its worth it. Same with a salvager.
    Downsides are that I can't exit directly into highsec, or if I want to, I have to leave my ships in a WH to make the run. I also can't fit into as many WHs. How rare are cap-sized wormholes? EDIT: can a bowhead fit into non-cap?


I'm heavily leaning towards the carrier, especially with the fighter changes coming soon (long before I'm ready to do this). To get loot out I would go to a WH 1 jump from HS, have a blockade runner or other transport come to me (on an alt account), and have it take the loot to Jita.

Any advice is welcome!



Advice - DO NOT DO IT.

Why - A solo character alone (without a POS) in a wormhole running c5 PVE ops is a loss mail waiting to happen. You have no security.. no alts watching wormholes... or to scout with.. You cant collapse wormholes to seal yourself in. If a new wormhole opens up or someone jumps an existing connection while your in a c5 site or even just at your safe spot switching ships..and a pvp corp scout comes through you are most likely going to lose everything.

If you must play alone then set up a Medium POS. Put your ships in the POS. Log off in your capital. Make sure you have battleships for rolling (collapsing) your connections.. which you should do before you do any c5 sites.

But to be honest.. and I dont mean this in a unkind way.. from your post... you have no idea what your doing. Join a c5 wh corp. Learn how to do it and then look at solo. (but get some alts first)

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-03-06 20:23:08 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:


Advice - DO NOT DO IT.

Why - A solo character alone (without a POS) in a wormhole running c5 PVE ops is a loss mail waiting to happen. You have no security.. no alts watching wormholes... or to scout with.. You cant collapse wormholes to seal yourself in. If a new wormhole opens up or someone jumps an existing connection while your in a c5 site or even just at your safe spot switching ships..and a pvp corp scout comes through you are most likely going to lose everything.


If I'm understanding things right (that's a big if), if I had an off-grid, off-dscan safe, the only time I would be in danger is when I'm running sites? It seems like there would be no way to know I'm there if I'm off dscan and grid.

With the upcoming fighter buff/changes, how viable would it be to hold off attackers until I can warp out? Seems like a stretch... but, who knows, maybe I missed something.

I would have all entrances scanned out, so I could probably bring a BS or mining barge to close the random entrances. I would probably set up probe scan (on my carrier) so that I can see if ships enter either static. Although I might need a covops dual-box for that? idk.

Actually, what if I left a sentry at each entrance (on hostile)? Then they would fire on any incoming ships and I would know? I assume there would be some notification.

Biggest problem I'm seeing is if I get hostiles, I won't know they are there until they land on me. 30s align sucksSad.

helana Tsero wrote:

If you must play alone then set up a Medium POS. Put your ships in the POS. Log off in your capital. Make sure you have battleships for rolling (collapsing) your connections.. which you should do before you do any c5 sites.


Why would a PoS help? Any ships would be in my carrier which would disappear when I log. And if I was going to loose the cap, wouldn't I end up losing the PoS too?

helana Tsero wrote:

But to be honest.. and I dont mean this in a unkind way.. from your post... you have no idea what your doing. Join a c5 wh corp. Learn how to do it and then look at solo. (but get some alts first)


You are definitely right. I plan on joining a WH corp for a while before I try this, for the isk as well as the experience.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2016-03-06 20:40:09 UTC
Ligraph wrote:

If I'm understanding things right (that's a big if), if I had an off-grid, off-dscan safe, the only time I would be in danger is when I'm running sites? It seems like there would be no way to know I'm there if I'm off dscan and grid.

im only going to address this bit as its the most important in my mind.
you can still be probed , frighteningly quickly if they know roughly where you are
ill refer you to a thread that poped up in nc,q&a a couple of days ago whereby myself and a couple of others discuss making safe spots and their relative effectiveness.

a lot of the certainties in that thread go out the window as they rely upon a couple of constants

1) Local
2) Static entrances i.e. gates and stations

without those two things its considerably harder to create reliable safes ...


Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-03-06 20:59:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Ligraph wrote:

If I'm understanding things right (that's a big if), if I had an off-grid, off-dscan safe, the only time I would be in danger is when I'm running sites? It seems like there would be no way to know I'm there if I'm off dscan and grid.

im only going to address this bit as its the most important in my mind.
you can still be probed , frighteningly quickly if they know roughly where you are
ill refer you to a thread that poped up in nc,q&a a couple of days ago whereby myself and a couple of others discuss making safe spots and their relative effectiveness.

a lot of the certainties in that thread go out the window as they rely upon a couple of constants

1) Local
2) Static entrances i.e. gates and stations

without those two things its considerably harder to create reliable safes ...




Yeah. A couple things:

  1. I'll have a cloak.
  2. I'll be hopefully ~20AU from ANYTHING, so with no local, the only way people will know I'm there getting a lucky entrance. Or will a 32AU scan probe out my carrier? If so, that's a problem. Could I just fit a bunch of Sensor Boosters before I take something out of the carrier?


EDIT: If I cloak, then eject and take another ship from the hanger, will I stay cloaked?
Matt Benneth
Strictly Moral Support
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#6 - 2016-03-06 21:30:51 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
If I cloak, then eject and take another ship from the hanger, will I stay cloaked?


You can fly capital ships and marauders and yet you are asking this kinda questions? Roll
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-03-06 21:53:23 UTC
Matt Benneth wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
If I cloak, then eject and take another ship from the hanger, will I stay cloaked?


You can fly capital ships and marauders and yet you are asking this kinda questions? Roll


In about a year of training time? yeah :P
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2016-03-06 22:43:04 UTC
how prey tell do you intend on making such a bookmark?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

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Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2016-03-06 23:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
how prey tell do you intend on making such a bookmark?


CovOps burning for a long time. Probably up or down. I heard that systems extent 22 AU from the outer planet, or something like that.
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-03-07 01:11:35 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
To answer some of your questions.

A POS protects your stuff. You can swap ships in safety, you can store your rolling battleships in there, spare ammo, blue loot and modules. That way when you get ganked (and even with precautions it will happen eventually) you wont lose everything. A POS is a place to retreat to when a hostile enters your wormhole. Just warping to a safe spot will see you quickly probed down and killed. See below.

A safe spot will not work to swap ships / modules etc. Yes you have to be uncloaked to swap ships etc etc.

When I scout wormholes I either

A) drop combat probes immediately on entering womhole. This is when we are rage rolling (thats with a big fleet waiting on other side of wormhole designed to kill capitals just like yours and anything else we find) or

B) If im just doing reguar scouting I warp to planets not in dscan range of my current postion so I get full coverage of the system.

Either way I will see your safe spot. You wont see me because you dont have any scouts on your womhole entrances. The first time you do see me (if you are watching dscan) will be combat probes on dscan followed by a sabre landing to trap your capital in a bubble 20 seconds later. Then the rest of the fleet will land. Your carrier will die and we will take no losses. Because you are storing everything in your carrier it will make a nice killmail and you will lose everything. If you have left your carrier floating (no it will not stay cloaked if it is unpiloted) at your safe spot while you salvage etc.. then we will just steal the carrier. leaving you in a noctis in deep unknown space (hopefully your noctis has probes...)

You cant make a bookmark multiple AU away from anything else unless you can drop it mid warp from another planet/bookmark. Space is big. Even with the fastest ship in the game... at non warp speeds it will take you a YEAR OF REAL LIFE TIME to travel a single AU. This means you cant make a safe spot that can not be dscanned by a scout warping around your system.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2016-03-07 01:26:21 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
..

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-03-07 04:49:13 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
To answer some of your questions.

A POS protects your stuff. You can swap ships in safety, you can store your rolling battleships in there, spare ammo, blue loot and modules. That way when you get ganked (and even with precautions it will happen eventually) you wont lose everything. A POS is a place to retreat to when a hostile enters your wormhole. Just warping to a safe spot will see you quickly probed down and killed. See below.

A safe spot will not work to swap ships / modules etc. Yes you have to be uncloaked to swap ships etc etc.

When I scout wormholes I either

A) drop combat probes immediately on entering womhole. This is when we are rage rolling (thats with a big fleet waiting on other side of wormhole designed to kill capitals just like yours and anything else we find) or

B) If im just doing reguar scouting I warp to planets not in dscan range of my current postion so I get full coverage of the system.

Either way I will see your safe spot. You wont see me because you dont have any scouts on your womhole entrances. The first time you do see me (if you are watching dscan) will be combat probes on dscan followed by a sabre landing to trap your capital in a bubble 20 seconds later. Then the rest of the fleet will land. Your carrier will die and we will take no losses. Because you are storing everything in your carrier it will make a nice killmail and you will lose everything. If you have left your carrier floating (no it will not stay cloaked if it is unpiloted) at your safe spot while you salvage etc.. then we will just steal the carrier. leaving you in a noctis in deep unknown space (hopefully your noctis has probes...)

You cant make a bookmark multiple AU away from anything else unless you can drop it mid warp from another planet/bookmark. Space is big. Even with the fastest ship in the game... at non warp speeds it will take you YEARS OF REAL LIFE TIME to travel a single AU. This means you cant make a safe spot that can not be dscanned by a scout warping around your system.



Ok, this isn't going to be anywhere near as easy as I thought then.

Thinking I would need 5 ships: CovOps scout and hacker (maybe 2, 1 scout 1 hacker), Venture Miner, and Carrier or Marauder ratter. Probably real people cause dual boxing that many is hard.

How many people would I run into in a c5? if there are thousands... I've been running c3s and it seems fairly empty.
Soldier Forrester
DEMONS OF THE HIDDEN MIST
TRUTH. HONOUR. LIGHT.
#13 - 2016-03-07 13:17:08 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
how prey tell do you intend on making such a bookmark?


CovOps burning for a long time. Probably up or down. I heard that systems extent 22 AU from the outer planet, or something like that.



Lol, ok, 1 AU = 149,597,870.7 Km

With a ship burning 10.000 m/s you need ~4155 hours to burn 1 AU, so to get your Savespot 20 AU away from everything you would need a character to burn 9,5 Years to get there
Persephone Alleile
Tartarus Covert Operations
#14 - 2016-03-07 14:13:26 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
How many people would I run into in a c5? if there are thousands... I've been running c3s and it seems fairly empty.


It'll seem empty until a huge PVP corp with a c5 static gets a connection to your hole.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#15 - 2016-03-07 19:14:10 UTC
Persephone Alleile wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
How many people would I run into in a c5? if there are thousands... I've been running c3s and it seems fairly empty.


It'll seem empty until a huge PVP corp with a c5 static gets a connection to your hole.

and then itl still seem empty




right up until they decloak ontop of you

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#16 - 2016-03-07 20:06:56 UTC
*THE SLEEPERS FIND LIGRAPH'S SKELETON IN HIS POD, MILENNIA LATER, AS HIS COVOPS SHIP CONTINUES IT'S INFINITE SLOWBURN JOURNEY THROUGHOUT SPACE AND TIME LONG AFTER THE PILOT HAS EXPIRED*

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-03-07 21:00:19 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Persephone Alleile wrote:
Ligraph wrote:
How many people would I run into in a c5? if there are thousands... I've been running c3s and it seems fairly empty.


It'll seem empty until a huge PVP corp with a c5 static gets a connection to your hole.

and then itl still seem empty




right up until they decloak ontop of you


That's kinda what I figured.

Solo carrier is looking like a no-go unless they add scout fighters.

Or could I fit a expanded scanner, set up the probes to there are 1 or 2 on each WH entrance, and just spam that? If anyone comes up on it, I just cloak (while sitting 100-200km+ away from the site) and let my fighters die.

The non-solo alternative would be to take 5 people, and have the carrier carry 4 mining ships, 4 covops hacker/scanners/scouts, and some massive battleships. The carrier would function like a mobile PoS and as the ratter, while the other people would scout while the carrier rats, then they mine/hack while the carrier cloaks.

It bugs me that a carrier can't carry mining, scouting, salvaging, hacking, etc. fighter squadrons.
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-03-07 21:11:58 UTC  |  Edited by: helana Tsero
Ligraph wrote:


....Solo carrier is looking like a no-go unless they add scout fighters.

Or could I fit a expanded scanner, set up the probes to there are 1 or 2 on each WH entrance, and just spam that? If anyone comes up on it, I just cloak (while sitting 100-200km+ away from the site) and let my fighters die.

The non-solo alternative would be to take 5 people, and have the carrier carry 4 mining ships, 4 covops hacker/scanners/scouts, and some massive battleships. The carrier would function like a mobile PoS and as the ratter, while the other people would scout while the carrier rats, then they mine/hack while the carrier cloaks.

It bugs me that a carrier can't carry mining, scouting, salvaging, hacking, etc. fighter squadrons.


If your being targeted by sleepers (and you will be) you cant cloak.

Nobody hacks c5 data/relic. The payout is not worth it.

Why mine when you can do c5 gas which is 100s of times more lucrative. Without a POS you cant compress your ore anyway so no way to carry it out easily.

Its great that you are interested in wormhole space and are excited by its possibilities.. however most of what you are assuming is just wrong and in reality it doesn't work the way you imagine.

Join a c5 wormhole corp.. get some experience in high class wormholes.. then come back and talk to us about a plan.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-03-07 21:20:08 UTC
helana Tsero wrote:
Ligraph wrote:


....Solo carrier is looking like a no-go unless they add scout fighters.

Or could I fit a expanded scanner, set up the probes to there are 1 or 2 on each WH entrance, and just spam that? If anyone comes up on it, I just cloak (while sitting 100-200km+ away from the site) and let my fighters die.

The non-solo alternative would be to take 5 people, and have the carrier carry 4 mining ships, 4 covops hacker/scanners/scouts, and some massive battleships. The carrier would function like a mobile PoS and as the ratter, while the other people would scout while the carrier rats, then they mine/hack while the carrier cloaks.

It bugs me that a carrier can't carry mining, scouting, salvaging, hacking, etc. fighter squadrons.


If your being targeted by sleepers (and you will be) you cant cloak.

Nobody hacks c5 data/relic. The payout is not worth it.

Why mine when you can do c5 gas which is 100s of times more lucrative. Without a POS you cant compress your ore anyway so no way to carry it out easily.

Its great that you are interested in wormhole space and are excited by its possibilities.. however most of what you are assuming is just wrong and in reality it doesn't work the way you imagine.

Join a c5 wormhole corp.. get some experience in high class wormholes.. then come back and talk to us about a plan.


When I said mine I meant gas mine. Bad terminology. But yeah, I will take your advice, I didn't think this would nearly as complicated as it is Big smile.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#20 - 2016-03-07 21:33:50 UTC
Ligraph wrote:

Solo carrier

Shocked
oh god dont let your ceo hear you say those two words in the same sentence

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

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