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Are there any must have skills for PVP?

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Author
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#41 - 2016-03-04 01:33:27 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

Drone Interfacing (Prereq: Drones 5) - Amps up the damage your drones do

This realy doesn't help but a little history on this skill I find interesting.

So it was before my time but my understanding is that this skill originally gave you more drones just like the lower level version. To reduce the number of objects that the server had to keep track of and hopefully reduce the load on large fleet fights CCP changed it to increase drone damage and hitpoints by 20% per level. Effectively giving you 5 more drones without adding any actual moving objects to fleet fights.

Recently I noticed that it is a 10% increase to damage and mining with no HP boost anymore. They must have done that during the drone rebalancing where they made drone progression more linear.

Again not very helpful I understand but I found it interesting and felt like passing it on.


Yes. During the rebalance they supposedly buffed Drone damage to compensate for the reduced DIV effectiveness. Of course there was a Drone Nerf that followed when Drone ships became the preferred pvp ships. So I really don't know where drone damage falls now. Personally, I miss my 100% extra damage.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#42 - 2016-03-04 01:48:32 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:

Lianara Dayton wrote:

Generally it's inefficient to train skills to 5 unless they are required for some other skill you need or if you're attempting to really focus on a single aspect of a ship (or role) - and that will hardly be the case for a new player.


Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

The shortlist of skills worth training to 5 ASAP (certainly before your character is 60 days old) are:

- Power Grid Management
- CPU Management
- Drones

All three of these skills that you list here have several skills in the "required for" list at level 5 on them. I hate to be nit picky to Sabriz who's advice is generally solid and still is here but I just wanted to point out that you and Lianara are really saying the same thing here.


You should train these skills to 5 even if you have no short-term uses for the skills that they are prerequisites for (although with Drones, you'd get Drone Interfacing 3 almost for free and that is a huge boost too)

Most of the skills that require a 5 in PG Management and CPU Management are related to tech 2 production, not combat. Even a pilot with no intention of training those science skills should still get the 5 ASAP.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#43 - 2016-03-04 01:55:31 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
If you honestly think Thermo 5 and TA 4 is better than Thermo 4 and TA 5, you should learn the maths of how heat damage works.

I understand the math, although I do rely somewhat heavily on EFT for numbers and if you have a link to the actual formula I would be interested to see it. I have already given my view on it.

It seems when you evaluate the benefit of thermo 5 you only consider the case of continuously overheating the whole rack. While that is useful in ganking and frontloading situations (which I know you are quite familiar with), that's not the only use for overheating. A single heated invuln or hardener can make a huge difference in an active tanked ship and Thermo 5 makes a 20 second difference in heat life, which can be even further extended if you pulse it. A heated hardener can almost double your DPS tank, which is huge since it relieves pressure on your nanite consumption and cap life.

It may seem like an edge case but if you fly active tanked ships you will run in to it a lot. And it's not the only edge case. There are way more ships that benefit from Thermo 5 than TA5 (which is a nearly worthless skill I will probably never train).

Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

Obviously neither TA5 nor Thermo 5 should be on anyone's radar as a newbie

Agreed.



I don't just gank. Gankers should train Thermo 1 and leave it there as there is no difference between 1 and 5 for us.

In wardec situations I absolutely have made use of the sustained tank boost.

Additionally, I have done a lot of PVE (both for sec status and for trading reasons) and use overheating extensively in PVE and PVP. I've overheated guns, precision modules, tackle modules, prop modules, resist modules, cap injectors, active local reppers and active remote reppers at various times. Sometimes module by module, sometimes the entire rack.

In all of these situations, 5% less heat damage is not a lot, because average damage is based upon an integral of rack heat with respect to time, and rack heat is an integral of a function of the number and type of modules you have overheating with respect to time. This makes heat damage quadratic in time (and linear in the number of overheated modules), and so each 5% you reduce heat damage only increases time by about 2.5%.

Not meaningless, but not significant.


TL:DR - Get Thermo 1 ASAP because it's one of the biggest power boosts in the game. 2 and 3 are an OK use of skillpoints. 4 and 5 can wait.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Zeric Aurilen
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#44 - 2016-03-04 13:23:56 UTC
Excellent info, thank you everyone for the replies! I'm going through the info and right now am learning towards PGM since my CPU Management is already at 5.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#45 - 2016-03-04 20:39:52 UTC
PVP Must-have: Strap Droidster and Dryson Bennington to the front of your ship, each equipped with head-mounted computers, and destroy your opponents with their stream-of-consciousness ****** trollery

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2016-03-04 20:49:19 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
PVP Must-have: Strap Droidster and Dryson Bennington to the front of your ship, each equipped with head-mounted computers, and destroy your opponents with their stream-of-consciousness ****** trollery

CCPlz nerf!

Grrr.

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#47 - 2016-03-04 21:12:05 UTC
It's completely overpowered - I destroyed not only every pod in Jita with it, but I also caused a whole EVE node to burst into flames!!!1!!11!

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#48 - 2016-03-05 02:46:24 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
It's completely overpowered - I destroyed not only every pod in Jita with it, but I also caused a whole EVE node to burst into flames!!!1!!11!

It's the rage. All that heat from the anger has to go somewhere!


For context to all the newbros reading this (hoping to glean any relevant info you can):

Droidster: a player who defines what it is to be a "noob." He asks for advice, completely ignores it (or argues against it because he "can't comprehend why people would do something THAT way"), and then gives questionable advice.

Dryson Bennington: a class "A" troll who knows exactly how to get the forum regulars riled up. He will often post semi-insane ideas with a hint of "hey, that actually makes sense" thrown in. Do not be seduced by his ways. It is the path to the darkness.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#49 - 2016-03-05 02:52:42 UTC
Dryson Bennington has ideas that are based just enough in reality for their madness to have all the more impact.

hes a glorious poster and i relish reading his oddness.

has no patch on Dinsdale Piranha ( o7 )
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#50 - 2016-03-05 03:04:59 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
has no patch on Dinsdale Piranha ( o7 )

Probably because Dinsdale was an honest to god conspiracy theorist.

There is nothing more entertaining (and dangerous) than someone who drinks their own kool aid like a thirsty horse in a desert.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2016-03-05 04:19:28 UTC
I miss Neville. His avatar was so punchable.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#52 - 2016-03-07 00:31:27 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dryson Bennington has ideas that are based just enough in reality for their madness to have all the more impact.

hes a glorious poster and i relish reading his oddness.

has no patch on Dinsdale Piranha ( o7 )



Dinsdale was a classic.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#53 - 2016-03-08 03:33:48 UTC
I think generally the most important thing is to not get discouraged. Someone could just link you like a Slasher fit. It's got an afterburner and a shield extender and a scram and a TD.

What do you know that it can engage really well? Not so well? The trouble with learning PVP in this game doesn't stop just here either. And the classes (the fights) especially in Frigates and Dessies can be 5-20 seconds long and perhaps few and far between.

There's not really any one skill ingame I would say is most important. Don't loaf around waiting for level V skills it's overrated

@lunettelulu7

ISD Chanisa Nemes
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#54 - 2016-03-08 03:51:49 UTC
Lulu Lunette wrote:

Don't loaf around waiting for level V skills it's overrated


I definitely agree with this. I had a friend who would only fly a ship once he had all the skills related to it completely maxed out. He ended up missing out on a lot of opportunities for fights because of that stubbornness. SP is important... but you gain more from this game by just jumping in and flying.

ISD Chanisa Nemes

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2016-03-08 12:00:49 UTC
ISD Chanisa Nemes wrote:
Lulu Lunette wrote:

Don't loaf around waiting for level V skills it's overrated


I definitely agree with this. I had a friend who would only fly a ship once he had all the skills related to it completely maxed out. He ended up missing out on a lot of opportunities for fights because of that stubbornness. SP is important... but you gain more from this game by just jumping in and flying.

This is a playstyle that is taught to them by other games with level caps and gear progression.

To me it is more than just a matter of them missing out on content by not being able to make the mental adjustment from "gear" and "level's" which in those games are all important to "skill points" and "modules" which in this game are only a part of things. To me it is a sign that the player does not understand this game and is not going to make it too long if they can't let go of the expectations that they bring from other games and play Eve as if it were a different game rather than just playing it as if it were another WoW clone.

If they can not make that mental adjustment then they will wait for skills to train just like they did in the other games with level caps and then go get expensive ships and modules, just like they did in games with gear progression and then go out and try and learn PvP just like they did in games with a respawn mechanic in a structured and balanced PvP arena. Of course none of those tactics will work out well in this game and they will get frustrated and leave.

This is why I tell players that appear to me to be stuck in their WoW clone programming to either play Eve as if it were Eve or just leave and look for another WoW clone because waiting for skills to train won't work out well here.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

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