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A Dust appeal regarding teamsize
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SpaceSquirrels
#21 - 2012-01-09 01:42:47 UTC
Fan of larger engagements. 16 + per team preferred. Love me some 64 BF.

Though honestly it depends on the map layout and goals on said map. Whats the goal? Conquest? An objective? a few objectives? Inhalation? What?
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#22 - 2012-01-09 10:18:00 UTC
Keep in mind that alliances such as goons have over 6000+ members alone and any 'large' alliance has over 2000+ players even if 1/3 is just alts filling the ranks and only 1/3 plays eve actively that's still a lot players for dust even if only 1/10th would own a PS3 and 1/2 of that number would be interested in playing DUST.

From a 6000 something that would be about 30 players at least playing dust in worst case scenario ... P
Brujo Loco
Brujeria Teologica
#23 - 2012-01-09 17:39:25 UTC
You guys thinking about ideal sizes, when in reality QUALITY OF THE MAP LAYOUT will be the most important thing. I really never cared about team size as much as map layout.

There are maps I still play to death in some online FPS games due to their extremely fun and properly set design. If all CCP gives us is a square block filled with unbreakable boxes and walls, it might be a 12 vs 12 or a 256x256 map, it wont matter it will suck big time.

Inner Sayings of BrujoLoco: http://eve-files.com/sig/brujoloco
Firestorm Delta
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-01-10 20:23:37 UTC
I don't know about everyone else here but I played as part of a Clan for Battlefield 2142. If Dust has vehicles, aircraft, and infantry, and needs balanced teams then going 2142 style where the largest teams were 32v32 then I think it would work fine.

Also it may be hard to get a full 32 man team to cooperate but if you managed to and your enemy didn't it would be a brutally one sided fight. That happened to us once in 2142 where we had most of our clans 2142 players on one team somehow and the rest were some of the regulars to our server and who knew their stuff. Needless to say we split the clan mates between the two teams to make it fair shortly there after.

If it's going to end up 24vs24 I think that would probably be the most balanced because it's neither too large or too small for a good game. I know 16vs16 used to always be fairly boring and any less then that was even less fun.
Naj Panora
The Seekers of Ore
#25 - 2012-01-10 20:24:39 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
MAG was crap.



You obviously have spent too much time with CoD to know a good game. Concept is incredible and if it weren't for the feel good crap CoD has it probably would have been a bigger success.
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#26 - 2012-01-10 20:37:31 UTC
Brujo Loco wrote:
You guys thinking about ideal sizes, when in reality QUALITY OF THE MAP LAYOUT will be the most important thing. I really never cared about team size as much as map layout.

There are maps I still play to death in some online FPS games due to their extremely fun and properly set design. If all CCP gives us is a square block filled with unbreakable boxes and walls, it might be a 12 vs 12 or a 256x256 map, it wont matter it will suck big time.


While I dont discount what you're saying it's going to suck if you dont have the right amount of people. Large map with too much space isn't fun. Small map that's one big choke point isn't too much fun. Differing team size also sets a tone. Huge bf games or planetside are very different from CS or COD.

And then there's TF2...but it's awesome for a whole lot of different reasons.
Spineker
#27 - 2012-01-10 21:05:43 UTC
People actually own PS3's? LOL
SpaceSquirrels
#28 - 2012-01-11 02:02:07 UTC
^

Somewhere between 25 - 42 million total as of last x mas season.
Claire Voyant
#29 - 2012-01-11 18:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Claire Voyant
There has been no discussion in this thread about vehicles. Most of the dust vehicles have seats for gunners, so pilots and gunners have to be included in the totals I think. I don't think we are talking about 24v24 infantry or 32v32 infantry only. The vehicles description from the Dust dev blogs are:
Mobile Command Center - crew 1? commander
Heavy Assault Vehicle - crew 3 (driver + two gunners?)
Light Assault Vehicle - crew 3 (driver, gunner, + one infantry?)
Light Logistics Vehicle - crew 3 (driver, gunner, + one infantry?)
Dropship - crew 7 (pilot, 2 gunners, + four infantry?)
It is not clear that every team would need all of the above, but one of each would total at least 14 players per side.

Obviously you can put it together any way you want, but it seems to me that you are going to want to get infantry accross the battlefield to the objective and you have three basic choices:
1. Hoof it
2. Dropships
3. Light vehicles

Wouldn't a limit of 16 per side limit your flexibility drastically?

CmdWang on the PS blog says they will most likely start with 24v24 but that they expect that number to increase over time and they are currently testing much larger battles. It seems to me they are limiting the size at the beginning only because they fear it will be too hard for corps to get a larger numbers of players lined up for battles. The game seems to be designed for at least 32v32 but I don't expect we'll be seeing human waves as an effective battlefield strategy.

Edit: I've found this from an Edge article:
“You’re given some interesting choices before the fighting’s even started,” enthuses Sveinsson. “There are ten vehicle classes, but the commander can only commit five for each battle. We have 15 installation types, and he can only choose five. It’s simple, really, like Magic: The Gathering: you prepare your deck and then fight.”

so maybe 10-15 in vehicle crews (assuming 2-3 each) and 9-14 infantry in a 24x24 game.
Spineker
#30 - 2012-01-11 20:11:25 UTC
SpaceSquirrels wrote:
^

Somewhere between 25 - 42 million total as of last x mas season.



Wow that is suckage. Out of that number they will sell maybe 5000 if that. There are over billion PCs in homes around the world.

Even if they released it on the Xbox360 also that is less than a tenth of PCs. MS said they have sold almost 50 million Xbox360s.
SpaceSquirrels
#31 - 2012-01-11 23:37:52 UTC
Of those "billions of pcs" How many could run Dust? On top of that you're equating ownership with desire. In which case is false I can at least claim (reasonably) that people who bought a PS3 have a desire to play games... Does that extend to FPSs and or Dust? Nope. But probably a greater ratio than have computer == want to play Dust.

Would be interesting to see out of "PC" ownership how many actually play developed games... Oh wait just look at game sales. Somewhere in the figure of 16 million (The sims), and then 12 million WoW. and then 11 million starcaft. Which comparing to consoles BLOPS (wins) = 12 million xbox, 3 million PS3, 1-2 million PC. While the PS3 does have less sales overall (Top selling PS3 game US is GT with over 7 million) the figures aren't staggeringly different from the xbox 360 or pc overall. (Not including the outliers... Which I mentioned above)

But even all that doesn't tell the whole story. Because you have to factor in time frame of sales v. when the latest consoles were released. PC games on that list (The top sales earners) came out before the latest consoles. You then see that game sales over the last 5ish years lack any staggering difference between all the platforms in overall total sales.
Exar Kuun
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2012-01-21 15:21:14 UTC
MAG being a console exclusive sold 500K the opening week and 1.2 million in lifetime sales.

it retailed for 60 dollars and was an MP only game.

Dust will sell for 20.

I believe dust will sell at least the same as mag.

Considering there are now 10-15 million more PS3s in peoples homes and dust is looking far better an MAG did and also considering its priced in line with the casual games market- it is entirely reasonable to expect far highersales than for MAG.
I'm expecting healthy sales..


the thing to consider though is the following:
EVE-online is small potatoes compared to the FPS market. Even a poorly selling Dust will be twice as big as EVE in player numbers.

A healthy selling Dust will quickly overshadow the EVE-community. It will be interesting to see how the dust community will organize and whether they set up alliances competing with eve alliances
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2012-01-21 15:33:15 UTC
Caldari Citizen20090217 wrote:
Quote:
What happens when you contract the biggest dust alliance in game and they arrive with 128 players and the defender can only hire a dust corp with 40 players?


AOE weapons or orbital bombardment happens, followed by much rage from 128 players Twisted



NAERF AOE WEPONZ!

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Valei Khurelem
#34 - 2012-01-23 09:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Valei Khurelem
Jask Avan wrote:
Please make DUST more like EVE and less like ****** CoD.


So we have another game where you sit in a station or in this case a ship for hours before you can do anything in combat or be remotely useful in any way? You force us to grind ISK against what will most likely be players or objectives with bounties on their heads?

When will people like you stop ruining games? CoD and EVE are both equally terrible and just once, just once, I'd like to see someone make a game like counter-strike source or one of the old style shooters where you just pick a weapon and have at the enemy instead of doing stupid things like grinding XP before you can beat players who have played the game a few days longer than you.

I swear a lot of the players are so full of **** in this game it's no wonder no new players want to subscribe, I keep coming back to EVE hoping to see some genuine improvements yet all I see is a constantly repeating cycle of propaganda, trolling and CCP giving in to mob tactics instead of making a fun game.

This FPS is a fantastic idea and if released for the PC would easily convince a good number of people to come and play in the EVE universe since we'd finally have a real time combat FPS to play in, I'm very doubtful it will happen though with the way things are going right now especially since with the footage that was posted up recently I'm already seeing the stupid exp point system popping up and annoying the crap out of me the second someone gets a kill.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium
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