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[CSM Minutes] Station trading taxes and fees post citadels

Author
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#21 - 2016-03-02 21:59:44 UTC
Yeah the percentage hasn't been ironed out I don't believe. And if a jita-esque citadel was destroyed I'd imagine a new citadel would be built in the same system so it would be free to move the assets. So for moving things, I'm guessing that if it has a value of 0, it wont cost anything to recover? So bpc's, AT ships, and a few other potentially valuable things would be free to recover. Doubt it makes a large impact, but it's something.

I probably missed it, but do regional buy orders affect citadels as well?
Adunh Slavy
#22 - 2016-03-03 01:46:21 UTC
Next thing you know, ccp is going to promise free medical care and a strong national defense.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#23 - 2016-03-03 04:29:29 UTC
u3pog wrote:
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
How would a citadel in high be a loot pinata? The loot is protected outside of wh space, it would just get transferred to the nearest npc station. It'll be a pain in the ass, but you wouldn't lose your stuff.


Yeah, you will just lose 10% of its value (still debatable). Not a big deal, 10% of a trillion is "just" a 100 billion.

I believe the instant resellers will be the ones to move. If you don't have many assets to lose and you quickly sell what you buy, then why not trade in a citadel?



You lose nothing if the goods are safe-transported within the same system/

If a citadel in Eglennaert becomes a replacement for Dodi 9-20 as the Sinq Laison hub, and that citadel pops, you can just move stuff to Egl 1-14 (or any other station) free.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#24 - 2016-03-03 07:36:48 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
u3pog wrote:
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
How would a citadel in high be a loot pinata? The loot is protected outside of wh space, it would just get transferred to the nearest npc station. It'll be a pain in the ass, but you wouldn't lose your stuff.


Yeah, you will just lose 10% of its value (still debatable). Not a big deal, 10% of a trillion is "just" a 100 billion.

I believe the instant resellers will be the ones to move. If you don't have many assets to lose and you quickly sell what you buy, then why not trade in a citadel?



You lose nothing if the goods are safe-transported within the same system/

If a citadel in Eglennaert becomes a replacement for Dodi 9-20 as the Sinq Laison hub, and that citadel pops, you can just move stuff to Egl 1-14 (or any other station) free.

Pretty sure that it only the case for another citadel. Transport to NPC stations (even within the same system) would cost 10%. But let's say that Zappity's Magnificent Market, a large citadel in Perimeter, is destroyed. Fred Trader might be able to recover his 100b worth of stock from the delivery system by anchoring a medium citadel in Perimeter. Hopefully the system isn't limited to transfers between structures of the same size.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Ria Nieyli
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2016-03-03 07:43:17 UTC
He's not going to get his broker fees back though.
Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#26 - 2016-03-03 07:59:32 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
He's not going to get his broker fees back though.

Well he can just cry himself to sleep. Or he could do the math and figure out that the savings accrued by taking advantage of Zappity's Magnificent Market's discounted fees have already paid for that inconvenience several times over.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Zappity
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#27 - 2016-03-03 08:00:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Double post.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#28 - 2016-03-03 11:33:00 UTC
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
How would a citadel in high be a loot pinata? The loot is protected outside of wh space, it would just get transferred to the nearest npc station. It'll be a pain in the ass, but you wouldn't lose your stuff.



It is not my stuff that makes it a pinata. The 5d delay is annoying, but not a loss.


An XL citadel is going to cost in the region of 70-90b without fittings, then you have the modules, rigs, service modules.

When it is destroyed, 15% of the hull value has 50% chance to drop as minerals or salvage.

The modules have the same chance to drop as they do from ships.


Any highly successful highsec citadel will be permadecced.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#29 - 2016-03-03 22:30:30 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Sheeth Athonille wrote:
How would a citadel in high be a loot pinata? The loot is protected outside of wh space, it would just get transferred to the nearest npc station. It'll be a pain in the ass, but you wouldn't lose your stuff.



It is not my stuff that makes it a pinata. The 5d delay is annoying, but not a loss.


An XL citadel is going to cost in the region of 70-90b without fittings, then you have the modules, rigs, service modules.

When it is destroyed, 15% of the hull value has 50% chance to drop as minerals or salvage.

The modules have the same chance to drop as they do from ships.


Any highly successful highsec citadel will be permadecced.



It's one thing to permadec a citadel and another to actually seriously threaten it.

The defender entity has enormous advantages in highsec war, especially where structures that have enormous EHP are concerned. XL Citadel EHP are balanced around the assumption that the attacker will field dreadnoughts and/or supercapitals en masse, and L Citadels around the assumption that small numbers of dreads will be fielded.

The defender can recruit allies with a 4 hour lead time which may even turn the tide of battles over individual timers.

The main thing is that any player market hub will have parties willing to actively defend it.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Viktor Backstrom
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2016-03-05 12:28:09 UTC
What worries me the most about this is how citadel owners can set separate broker fees for different people. So let's say a big alliance creates a citadel near jita and it becomes the new hub. The owners could then set a brokers fee of 1%, but make it 0% for only certain corps in their alliance. Station trading can already be very competitive. Now imagine competing against someone with a 0% fee...
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