EVE General Discussion

To OP.

Personal player skill cannot be bought, ever. Skill points only enable what part if the game you play and at what time. They can be gained with or without skill injectors. Pay to win is when an item in the cash shop is overpowered and is not available through in game means, only RMT.

Either way those skill points need to be payed for, a player could keep an account running for 10 years and be able to do anything but technically unless they've actually spent their own time playing and learning this game then their skill points don't account for much more than what ships they can fly.

#1 rule of EVE is there is always something else that can blap you. Am I wrong?

Skills wont save u from getting podded.

Kira is watching you....

Do you think you could be a bigger idiot if you tried just a little harder?
I've got underpants with more wit and personality that you.
Whether you think it or like it, he's got a valid point, from HIS point of view. He has the right to ask it. Also, who says the person that is buying the skills is someone without a clue in Eve? Maybe it's an Eve player who's been playing for years and has the real life cash to spend without the patience to train? Just because you don't agree means nothing. Actually, talking of nothing, that's exactly what you are...

So now you can buy your way to a titan, bypassing years of waiting to do so...but you can't bypass the years of learning how the game works, learning the mechanics, learning how to fly that ship, learning strategy or tactics in a meaningful context...so no, it isn't "much easier to win..." it's much easier to lose. A cursory look at the various killboards will show you the evidence.



Skillpoints are *far less* important than actual experience of playing the game. They just unlock toys.



Really? You really think "CCP agrees with me?"

No monocle here. No bittervet. But you really need to get a grip.

Lots of times I send people paypal money to self-destruct their ships and pods.

#paying2win

I'm a noob, so please give me an example:
Take your favorite ship and your skills and show me how someone will have a huge advantage with more skills. And show me where the additional skillpoints will make a bigger difference compared to buying officer modules and fitting your ship with them from front to end.

Within a year you should have all the skills to perform your favorite ship at max skills (capitals excluded). SIs give you the chance to fly more!!! ships perfectly but it wouldn't give you an edge to someone focused on a special ship.

In a way EVE was P2W even bevor the invention of injectors because there was no way for a noob to catch up to a 10 year vet (who payed 10 years for that advantage) no matter how hard he tried. Now the noob, if he is dedicated to grind, can make the ISK ingame to buy SIs and catch up to the vet. You don't need to buy plex to make ISK but the SELLER!!! needs to invest real money for aurum. Buying PLEX is faster, sure, but don't necessarily need to while the seller HAS TO spend real money for aurum.

So who is playing the P2W game: the one who sells SP or the one who buys?

Thanks CCP for showing us the true meaning of the Company monetization scheme by allowing Ironbank to max skill in 3 days
source : http://eveboard.com/pilot/IronBank?level=5

Regards, a Freelancer

ps: it was the best poster boy example to read about on oog gaming media sites, you showed your Greed to the masses there.

Higher Navigation skills = more mobility
Higher Gunnery/Missile skills = More RoF, T2 Guns/Ammo
Higher Armor/Shield skills = more tank

Do I need to go on?
Pilot A has similar piloting skill to Pilot B. Pilot A has 5m SP. Pilot B has 50m SP.
Player B wins.



Because certain skills affect certain stats.
Putting Officer/DS prop mods on your ship make it faster since T2 is never a good option. However, with **** Nav skills, that other guy is still going faster. Officer/DS tank mods are nice. Too bad that guy who trained them all to 5 still has a stronger tank.



I think the point here is that variety is the better option in almost every scenario in Eve.
For PvE, I used to fly a RNI. The RNI blows through most missions but some are ridiculously tough. Then I got a Domi and started swapping between the two based on mission. Moral of the story: Variety is better.

I used to main Caldari for PvP. Then I realized how bad of a decision that was. Now I'm cross-trained into every race and I can fly most doctrines. Moral of the story: Variety.

Even for solo, variety is the better option. If your intent is to just fly your favorite ship with no concern for viability or success, go ahead. However, for the rest of us who don't find losing fun, variety is the better option.



Yea, it doesn't exactly work like that.
Another problem that people seem to be having is not realizing how much SP actually matters. For the sake of PvP, everything really lies in the Frig-BC range of ships. Capitals are their own beast and require a lot to make it worth undocking so I won't even mention those for now. To train all 4 races' Frig-BC range of ships to 5 doesn't take a lot of SP. Factor in core fitting skills to 5, navigation skills to 5, tank skills to 5, and weapon systems to 5, you're looking at a lot less than 100m SP. Probably falls somewhere in the 50m SP range if that.
So, the question is: Assuming you can get all relevant skills to 5 for the Frigate to Battlecruiser range of ships for all 4 races at around 50m SP, where's the validity in the argument that someone who played for 10 years is infinitely better than someone who played for 2 years simply because of SP?



The ones who know what P2W means are calling it P2W. Because it fits the definition: Pay for the ability to do something in a smaller amount of time, thus gaining an advantage over those who don't pay.

No, you're just not understanding the definition.
The acronym doesn't allude to its definition. If it did, P2W would've never become a phrase in the first place since it's not possible to "win" any online game. It's a misnomer.

You can argue semantics all you want but the definition is still valid.
Technically, buying characters off the Bazaar is P2W too.

Yes it is pay 2 win now and in fact it is worse than you describe because what you are missing is that injector players can focus their training on exactly what they need, but a 10-year-old player will have usually trained a bunch of unrelated skills.

For example, let's say they are two players who are vying to be a titan pilot in their corporation which involves getting the corporation to help pay for it and obtain the modules, among other things. One candidate has 5 years training, the other 10 years. Normally, the 10 year player will have a big advantage skill-wise, but with skill injectors the 5 year player can just buy the exact skills he needs to surpass the 10-year player. For example, some critical skills are Titan V, Doomsday V, and a weapon 5 like Citadel Cruise Missiles V. Training those skills could easily take 3 months for the 10-year-old player, but the 5-year-old player with skill injectors can just buy them instantly. Guess who the corporation is going to pick, other things being equal? The guy who has Doomsday V. This can allow a 5-year player to just buy his way into a Titan or other key content in the game.