EVE General Discussion

Sure, point is u learn from your mistakes. Again, this has nothing to do with SP. If it had something to do with SP, EVE would be in big trouble cause then we would be able to use the phrase unfair with our dignity intact.

Ok, lets look at what you are saying then.




Low skilled players against high skilled players happens all the time, sp injectors won't make any real difference, if anything overtime they may even, even things up to some degree in relation to sp.

100% PvP, that's debateable.

Knowing when to attack a target and when not to is all part of learnt player skills as well as a degree of common sense.

So you also appear to be saying if you're new and use sp injectors then don't blame CCP if you then lose your ship.


Although I don't really see that there's much room for discussion on this subject. You could just as well have made a single statement.

Some things u got right and some things u didnt get right. I dont even know what you are trying to say anymore

Your purpose is clear though. What u are trying to say is not. Just to clarify

My purpose?

If you think there is a purpose beyond trying to understand what you are actually trying to say, then you are gravely mistaken. Especially as you said it wasn't covered by the other threads on this subject.


But as you say 'Your purpose is clear ...' then I guess you think I'm trolling, which I'm not. So I think it's best we forget it as things are unlikely to improve.

EVERYTHING requires a new topic.

Wait until Mr Epeen sees this...

Just because you cant tin eve dosnt mean you cant win a fight.

Ugh, no.
This is Eve, do you expect to win at everything because you have "skill"?
SPs are important and required to do more than just sit in a ship. SPs invested affect certain attributes of your ship while also affecting which mods you can use and how many of them you can use. As an example I posted in another thread:

Pilot A has 5m SP. Pilot B has 50m SP.
Pilot A and B have similar piloting skill.

Simply because Pilot B has more SP (assuming both pilots invested their SP wisely to fly ships with the best potential given their SP limitations), we can logically assume the following:
Pilot B's ship has more eHP.
Pilot B's ship has more maximum speed.
Pilot B has less cap problems.
Pilot B has T2 Guns, T2 Ammo, More RoF, etc.

Basically, Pilot B has the better end of the stick simply because of SP. End of story.
To be fair about this, SP isn't the end-all-be-all of the equation. As SP increases, it becomes more and more irrelevant after a certain point. Example:

Let's say you only want to fly Frigates, Destroyers, and Cruisers. Getting all of the necessary skills to 5 would take (let's assume) 50m SP. The difference in stats between a 50m SP Pilot in a Caracal and a 100m SP Pilot in a Caracal are pretty negligible. Why? Because the relevant skills are all at 5 either way. SP becomes more and more of a factor the lower you go simply because it's limiting what you can and can't do as well as how well you can do is based on what you're doing (ex: takes less to perfectly fly a Cruiser rather than a Dread).

In a similar example, for PvE, the results are largely the same although skewed based on activity.
For running L4's efficiently, you don't need a Marauder. So let's say your goal is to beast L4 missions. Great, you obviously want some kind of Battleship for this. Let's say it takes ~30m SP to fully train all relevant BS skills to 5. Obviously, a 10m SP Pilot can't even compete with the isk/time efficiency of a 30m SP pilot. However, there's no real difference between a 30m SP Pilot and a 100m SP Pilot in this regard (not including social skills).

EDIT:
For the sake of bringing player skill into this, since that seems to be the hot topic at the moment, let's run through more examples:

Let's say it takes 21D to train up Gallente Cruiser 5.
Player A and Player B both start at Gallente Cruiser 4 @ 0%.
Player A waits the 21D to train up to GC5.
Player B buys Injectors and gets it done immediately.

Now comes the question:
Player A spends the 21D flying a Vexor Navy Issue until he can sit in an Ishtar.
Player B spends the 21D flying the Ishtar.

In this example, the difference in skill is largely irrelevant because the VNI and Ishtar are both drone boats and both excellent at PvP and PvE. The only difference is the Ishtar is more Sentry oriented and the VNI isn't. So, technically, Player B would have more skill with Sentries but it's not like that's really a big deal (deploy sentries -> orbit @ range).

If you were to replace the VNI and Ishtar with Caracal and Cerb, two ships designed for different roles (technically) then it becomes a bit more interesting. However, if the end goal of both players is to competently fly a Cerb then Player B obviously has the advantage and it's obviously P2W oriented. If both players goals are to fly competently in general then there is no clear advantage since they're both spending the same amount of time flying ships. If both players goals are to fly a Caracal competently then Player B would've never sat in a Cerberus in the first place. However, Player B would have a slight advantage for the 21D training time due to having Caldari Cruiser at 5. After the 21D, they'd be even anyway.


So, in short, at least for the sake of the examples, the "player skill" argument is really just hot air. At the end of a given amount of time, both players would have the same amount of skill assuming they invested the same amount of time into gaining that skill. Only the guy who's sitting in more expensive ships would have more costly KMs.

The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind...

https://zkillboard.com/kill/52372285/

(Capsuler date of birth is Febrary 28... 2016)