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Is EVE now P2W?

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Skoomer
#61 - 2016-03-01 08:51:20 UTC
You can have all the SP in the world and still be **** if you dont know a thing the game mechanics so no
Fal Dara
Vortex Command Corporation
#62 - 2016-03-01 09:21:07 UTC
spend 2k for max character? is that all you think it was?

i believe, from even where my SP's stand (210m) it would cost me 13-14k worth of plex to get the max skills.

some one dropped over 20g's worth.

not 2k.
Jaantrag
#63 - 2016-03-01 09:30:01 UTC
win in eve .. maxing out ur sp in here only shows how far u are from actulay winning anything .. u might be on top of the scoreboards .. but what next ... nohting ..

EVElopedia < add this to your sig to show u WANT it back
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2016-03-01 12:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Terminal Insanity wrote:
so if WOW, or any other MMO let you pay money and get max level, with all the skills/etc.... that wouldnt be a problem for you?

Please quit videogames now. you are the cancer that is ruining my videogames.


They actually let you do so in WoW and many other MMOs. No, I don't see this as a problem, they were always "grind up to max level, then you will finally start playing the actual game".

I mean, I understand that some people need to unleash their inner clickfest beast and do something like that for a while, I myself do that too, but this option is still there (and if you go through it, you still get much needed practice at controlling your character properly). But when it comes to competitive side and you're sad that time spent doing things irrelevant to competition in question doesn't give you advantage, I don't know what to say.

I can only suggest you to pick up some good competitive game without any sort of levelling system (any fighting game or most of so-called "mobas" would do it) and get used to thought that the only way to "git gud" at certain thing is to do that very thing until you master it. This is not universal, but definitely helps to cope with certain possibilities that are present in EVE now.

And if you want to focus on EVE and make it reward you, it's time to start learning to make ISK instead of being entitled to advantages (that come from sources other than you being good at the task) just because you were subbed for a longer time.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Johnny Riko
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2016-03-01 12:33:18 UTC
EVE has been P2W long before the skill trading update.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is a bit delusional, and is holding onto this profound idea that 'player skill' is everything.

Yes, if you are a complete idiot and have never ever attempted to play EVE before, then you will lose in a max SP character/bling ship to someone with more experience. But if you're not an imbecile, and have at least a basic understanding of game mechanics, with a minimal amount of experience in PVP, you will have a massive advantage. All of that is ignoring how much easier it is for someone with lots of cash to throw at the game to reship when they do have losses.

I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2016-03-01 13:22:55 UTC
The number of hilarious lossmails of week-ol dnoobs losing very expensive T2 ships and equipment show that EVE is P2Fail.

Twas ever thus with toons bought from the character bazarr, it's just more widespread now.
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#67 - 2016-03-01 13:32:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Algarion Getz
MadTrojan Sarain wrote:
As the title say's.

Is EVE now officially P2W?

Why I ask this; you can now use skill injectors.
More to the point that someone, paid over $2k real money buying plex to sell for in game currency and then buying skill injectors to then become top skilled player.

So yes, I understand buying plex for in game currency has been around for a while as is using in game currency to buy plex time but now has it gone to far?

Does it even matter?
That someone playing ten years of hard core skill learning, to then be equalled by a paid player of same skill set from 1 day.

Yes experience counts for a lot but then the real question because; why have skill's now?
If you can rush game content in a lot of way's...

Has this diluted what CCP was?

Yes. The new target audience are now impatient 12 year old gamers.
Josef Djugashvilis
#68 - 2016-03-01 13:38:18 UTC
Nope, but is is now blatantly pay to get an advantage.

This is not a signature.
Lina Sovereign
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2016-03-01 13:41:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Lina Sovereign
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Nope, but is is now blatantly pay to get an advantage.


Exactly my thoughts
Lianara Dayton
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2016-03-01 13:52:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Lianara Dayton
@OP: yes, for all intents and purposes, EVE is now pay-to-win.

Sure, you still need player skill and won't win by default just because you dropped lots of money on the game but it will definitely make it much easier to win if you can afford to bypass years of training. It's the same as in a game like WOW: sure you can still lose even if you're fully epic equipped and fighting against people in greens and blues but nobody except the CCP apologists in this thread will attempt to split hairs and claim that this isn't pay-to-win (and, as they admit, only "pay-for-huge-advantage" ... which is obviously so much better). Shocked

The people in this thread will tell you some drivel about skill points not being important but those are just lies. Obviously CCP agrees with me that SP are very important - otherwise they wouldn't have found it necessary to implement a "catch up" mechanic in the form of injectors, right? And if SP were not important as the apologists claim then people would also not be willing to pay horrendous sums for them either, right?

It takes a special kind of double think (and probably a hefty dose of Monocle) to be able to overlook these facts and pretend that EVE didn't just take a huge step towards pay-to-win.

Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
Kamahl Daikun
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2016-03-01 15:01:43 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Nope, but is is now blatantly pay to get an advantage.


Whoever said it on the last page is absolutely right: People don't understand what P2W actually means.
The phrase isn't literal, you're not "paying to win the game" since it's not actually possible to win a game like this. Or any modern MMO, for that matter. On that note, MMOs are the biggest source of P2W games. For reference, I'll use one:

Neverwinter.
I played it and enjoyed it until the P2W concept got too ridiculous. What's so P2W about it? There's gear that you feed Refinement Items into. It levels the gear up and when it gets to a certain point, it evolves into its next stage. The amount of Refinement Points needed to get it to its final stage is ridiculous. However, Refinement Points are sold in the cash shop. You're paying to achieve something faster, thus giving you an advantage. That's P2W.

Similar to Eve, you could just manually train up the skill. Or you could just get a few Injectors and be done with it. The concept is the same: Reach a level faster to give you an advantage. Even in Neverwinter, having the gear (equivalent to SP) doesn't make you a beast. However, it does make you much more of a threat by default.

Like I said, I'd put my money on the 50m SP pilot over the 5m SP pilot any day.
And yes, this does qualify as P2W.
MidnightWyvern
Fukamichi Corporation
SAYR Galactic
#72 - 2016-03-01 15:33:05 UTC
Terminal Insanity wrote:
Reaper infliction wrote:
It's 1 thing to have all the skills as a new player but its another thing to know how they all work. Experience in the game should still win over the pay to win noob


thatonepersone wrote:
Skill injectors are not P2W in the same way plex is not. Both are ways of getting something everybody can get faster. Pay to win would be if there was a ship that was better than all of the other ships of its class that you could only buy with real life money.



so if WOW, or any other MMO let you pay money and get max level, with all the skills/etc.... that wouldnt be a problem for you?

Please quit videogames now. you are the cancer that is ruining my videogames.

Pot calling the kettle black, much?

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#73 - 2016-03-01 15:58:19 UTC
you can buy SP, yet not the skill.
Josef Djugashvilis
#74 - 2016-03-01 16:24:20 UTC
Kamahl Daikun wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Nope, but is is now blatantly pay to get an advantage.


Whoever said it on the last page is absolutely right: People don't understand what P2W actually means.
The phrase isn't literal, you're not "paying to win the game" since it's not actually possible to win a game like this. Or any modern MMO, for that matter. On that note, MMOs are the biggest source of P2W games. For reference, I'll use one:

Neverwinter.
I played it and enjoyed it until the P2W concept got too ridiculous. What's so P2W about it? There's gear that you feed Refinement Items into. It levels the gear up and when it gets to a certain point, it evolves into its next stage. The amount of Refinement Points needed to get it to its final stage is ridiculous. However, Refinement Points are sold in the cash shop. You're paying to achieve something faster, thus giving you an advantage. That's P2W.

Similar to Eve, you could just manually train up the skill. Or you could just get a few Injectors and be done with it. The concept is the same: Reach a level faster to give you an advantage. Even in Neverwinter, having the gear (equivalent to SP) doesn't make you a beast. However, it does make you much more of a threat by default.

Like I said, I'd put my money on the 50m SP pilot over the 5m SP pilot any day.
And yes, this does qualify as P2W.


This is Eve Online, those who approve of cash for skills will berate you for using the term - P2W, so it is better to use the term - cash for skills, as even the pedants cannot argue with the fact that skill injectors are cash for skills = cash for an in-game advantage.

However, having said that, I agree with your sentiment. Smile

This is not a signature.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#75 - 2016-03-01 16:27:32 UTC
Skoomer wrote:
You can have all the SP in the world and still be **** if you dont know a thing the game mechanics so no
But this goes for all games. There's no game I know of that you can pay and literally just win. Every single one you still need to put what you've bought to good use and to do that you need to know the game mechanics and be remotely competent at the game.

P2W doesn't mean that you will win simply by paying, it means that by paying you can give yourself a significant advantage over a similarly experienced player that hasn't paid, which this obviously does.

That doesn't mean it's a bad thing to have in a game though.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Commander Spurty
#76 - 2016-03-01 16:41:06 UTC
When are CCP going to put a kabosh on n00b alts posting on EVE-O General Discussion?

N00b alts should only be able to post in a 'Rookie-help' channel.

Like write access to the Corp and Alliance channels.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#77 - 2016-03-01 17:30:34 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Skoomer wrote:
You can have all the SP in the world and still be **** if you dont know a thing the game mechanics so no
But this goes for all games. There's no game I know of that you can pay and literally just win. Every single one you still need to put what you've bought to good use and to do that you need to know the game mechanics and be remotely competent at the game.

P2W doesn't mean that you will win simply by paying, it means that by paying you can give yourself a significant advantage over a similarly experienced player that hasn't paid, which this obviously does.

That doesn't mean it's a bad thing to have in a game though.


Then eve has been p2w by your definition since Inception, as GTC and character sales have always been allowed.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#78 - 2016-03-01 18:42:56 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Then eve has been p2w by your definition since Inception, as GTC and character sales have always been allowed.

Yes it was, and this is the definition used in other games. pay2win has nothing to do with actually winning, that would be completely ridiculous. It is always about purchasing advantages or removing a barrier.

Also think about this for a second:

Until this february, EVE had a passive skill system which unlike other MMOs did not require grinding. It could not be circumvented with money except if you purchased a whole other character. This is gone now.

Now we have a regular slow ticking paywall which you can grind away with farming ISK in game or by throwing money at it. That happened.

Evil RatKid
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#79 - 2016-03-01 18:59:23 UTC
What skill injectors mean to me: there is no reason to save unallocated skillpoints anymore.

That's about it.

Move along. Nothing to see here.
NickyYo
modro
Northern Coalition.
#80 - 2016-03-01 19:05:29 UTC
I don't get how it's now pay to win? Like you've always had the ability to buy a game time code to sell for isk, you've always had the ability to buy characters with isk.

I think the changes are good, especially for those who have busy lives like myself.

..