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This is eve, do u expect to win cause u have SP?
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Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#1 - 2016-03-01 00:34:49 UTC
Heres how I see it:

U cant put low skilled vs high skilled players against eachother. Everything in eve is 100% pvp or have elements of pvp and one thing holds true for all of them (I will come to this in the conclusion of what Im about to write) so lets take convensional pvp (like ships killing ships) as an example.
Its just not about, like someone said, pitching a high skilled daredevil against a low skilled daredevil, its about taking or not taking the fight. Thats where the win/lose relationship makes most sense to me.

The outcome of this process will ALWAYS be one and the same:

If u die its your own fault and not CCPs fault for making it possible for one character to have more SP than he/she should. This is the beauty of eve.

If u die, lose isk, get your ship blown up in a mission or any other SP/Skill-driven scenario, u dont blame CCP. This is eve, remember? Man up!
Aviola von Yodalgut
Doomheim
#2 - 2016-03-01 00:37:50 UTC
Hate to break it to you but you can't actually win EVE.


The best you can do is set yourself some goals and have the satisfaction on their completion.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#3 - 2016-03-01 00:44:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Hate to break it to you but you can't actually win EVE.


The best you can do is set yourself some goals and have the satisfaction on their completion.


That is true but its not the whole truth. Human nature make it so that the completion of our goals only transform them into something else. Would make no sense going down the path u are on here. Im talking about the more concrete day to day gameplay of eve.
Conrad Makbure
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2016-03-01 00:47:05 UTC
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Hate to break it to you but you can't actually win EVE.


The best you can do is set yourself some goals and have the satisfaction on their completion.



Ok, yeah, thank you for throwing that random point out there.

I agree with the OP, a total new person with millions of SP they bought is still a new person with no experience, but the difference being they have SP now. They won't know what to do with it.

If vets want to do this with alt accounts, then do it. I hope you spend lots of real money doing it.
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#5 - 2016-03-01 00:47:21 UTC
This did not require a new topic.
Aviola von Yodalgut
Doomheim
#6 - 2016-03-01 00:53:14 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Hate to break it to you but you can't actually win EVE.


The best you can do is set yourself some goals and have the satisfaction on their completion.


That is true but its not the whole truth. Human nature make it so that the completion of our goals only transform them into something else. Would make no sense to going down the path u are on here. Im talking about the more concrete day to day gameplay of eve.



Often we expand on the goal once we've reached it because we don't want it to end.

Everyone sets goals which effects their day to day gameplay.


Thing about EVE is it is a sandbox and as such there is nothing you can do to win EVE other than complete the goals that you set yourself.
Aviola von Yodalgut
Doomheim
#7 - 2016-03-01 00:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Aviola von Yodalgut
Conrad Makbure wrote:

Ok, yeah, thank you for throwing that random point out there.




The op asks a question in the title, then sets about answering that question in the opening post.


I was also answering the question in the title.




Edit:

As to the content of the opening post, I agree with Krevnos in post #5
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2016-03-01 01:08:17 UTC
Is it really that hard to write 'you'? This isn't Twitter.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Pix Severus
Empty You
#9 - 2016-03-01 01:12:16 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Is it really that hard to write 'you'? This isn't Twitter.


Its like I'm reading a text message from the 90s.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-03-01 01:20:34 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Is it really that hard to write 'you'? This isn't Twitter.


Its like I'm reading a text message from the 90s.


On that note, I'm now starting a petition to enable ringtone alerts for notifications on these forums.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Bunny Ellecon
Suo-SHEE Browncoats
#11 - 2016-03-01 01:21:36 UTC
Here's the thing, like many MMOs.

A new person with new skills and new stuff will lose to someone with the same skills, same gear (shipss) but more experience.


However, someone with vastly superior skills and gear (ships) will win when they shouldn't have, if it wasn't for the superior sills/ships/gear.
Pix Severus
Empty You
#12 - 2016-03-01 01:21:54 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Is it really that hard to write 'you'? This isn't Twitter.


Its like I'm reading a text message from the 90s.


On that note, I'm now starting a petition to enable ringtone alerts for notifications on these forums.


You have my vote.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-03-01 01:27:10 UTC
Bunny Ellecon wrote:
Here's the thing, like many MMOs.

A new person with new skills and new stuff will lose to someone with the same skills, same gear (shipss) but more experience.


However, someone with vastly superior skills and gear (ships) will win when they shouldn't have, if it wasn't for the superior sills/ships/gear.



Nope.

I met a guy in 2014 who'd just started playing the game. With less than 5mil SP, and two weeks PVP training with me, he killed an '08 vet in lowsec. The '08 had a fully t2 fit ruppy, while my guy had a crappy meta 4 fit thorax.

Your skills account for virtually nothing next to your knowledge and understanding of game mechanics, fitting, ship capabilities, etc etc.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Aviola von Yodalgut
Doomheim
#14 - 2016-03-01 01:31:49 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bunny Ellecon wrote:
Here's the thing, like many MMOs.

A new person with new skills and new stuff will lose to someone with the same skills, same gear (shipss) but more experience.


However, someone with vastly superior skills and gear (ships) will win when they shouldn't have, if it wasn't for the superior sills/ships/gear.



Nope.

I met a guy in 2014 who'd just started playing the game. With less than 5mil SP, and two weeks PVP training with me, he killed an '08 vet in lowsec. The '08 had a fully t2 fit ruppy, while my guy had a crappy meta 4 fit thorax.

Your skills account for virtually nothing next to your knowledge and understanding of game mechanics, fitting, ship capabilities, etc etc.



With this game I'd agree with you, but I think there must be quite a few that are thinking in terms of other MMOs.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-03-01 01:38:30 UTC
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Bunny Ellecon wrote:
Here's the thing, like many MMOs.

A new person with new skills and new stuff will lose to someone with the same skills, same gear (shipss) but more experience.


However, someone with vastly superior skills and gear (ships) will win when they shouldn't have, if it wasn't for the superior sills/ships/gear.



Nope.

I met a guy in 2014 who'd just started playing the game. With less than 5mil SP, and two weeks PVP training with me, he killed an '08 vet in lowsec. The '08 had a fully t2 fit ruppy, while my guy had a crappy meta 4 fit thorax.

Your skills account for virtually nothing next to your knowledge and understanding of game mechanics, fitting, ship capabilities, etc etc.



With this game I'd agree with you, but I think there must be quite a few that are thinking in terms of other MMOs.


Well, that's entirely their own mistake, and a demonstration of nothing more than their own lack of understanding of the unique entity amongst games that EVE is.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#16 - 2016-03-01 01:38:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nad'x Hapax
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Hate to break it to you but you can't actually win EVE.


The best you can do is set yourself some goals and have the satisfaction on their completion.


That is true but its not the whole truth. Human nature make it so that the completion of our goals only transform them into something else. Would make no sense to going down the path u are on here. Im talking about the more concrete day to day gameplay of eve.



Often we expand on the goal once we've reached it because we don't want it to end.

Everyone sets goals which effects their day to day gameplay.


Thing about EVE is it is a sandbox and as such there is nothing you can do to win EVE other than complete the goals that you set yourself.


Yes we could keep this philosofical thing going but it will end here with the issue that the day to day goals=todays win is important and thats what the current discussion with purchasable SP seem to adress.

What Im saying in the OP is that unless your todays win only revolves around how much SP u got, your SP just wont matter cause the well established mentality of EVE makes it irrelevant.
Aviola von Yodalgut
Doomheim
#17 - 2016-03-01 01:46:22 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Hate to break it to you but you can't actually win EVE.


The best you can do is set yourself some goals and have the satisfaction on their completion.


That is true but its not the whole truth. Human nature make it so that the completion of our goals only transform them into something else. Would make no sense to going down the path u are on here. Im talking about the more concrete day to day gameplay of eve.



Often we expand on the goal once we've reached it because we don't want it to end.

Everyone sets goals which effects their day to day gameplay.


Thing about EVE is it is a sandbox and as such there is nothing you can do to win EVE other than complete the goals that you set yourself.


Yes we could keep this philosofical thing going but it will end here with the issue that the day to day goals=todays win is important and thats what the current discussion with purchasable SP seem to adress.

What Im saying in the OP is that unless your todays win only revolves around how much SP u got, your SP just wont matter cause the well established mentality of EVE makes it irrelevant.


I'd refer you to post #5 as what you are talking about in the op has been discussed at great length in other threads already.
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#18 - 2016-03-01 01:47:24 UTC
Bunny Ellecon wrote:
Here's the thing, like many MMOs.

A new person with new skills and new stuff will lose to someone with the same skills, same gear (shipss) but more experience.


However, someone with vastly superior skills and gear (ships) will win when they shouldn't have, if it wasn't for the superior sills/ships/gear.




There is no should or shouldnt win in EVE. If u lose its your fault and u learn from it. That is the way of EVE. Eventually u learn not to take the fight against what u cant beat. leave SP out of the equation.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2016-03-01 01:51:37 UTC
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Eventually u learn not to take the fight against what u cant beat.


What you should be learning, of course, is not to run away from what you 'can't beat', but rather, to figure out how to beat them. I hate the word 'can't', it's so negative.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nad'x Hapax
Hapaxa
#20 - 2016-03-01 01:52:24 UTC
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Nad'x Hapax wrote:
Aviola von Yodalgut wrote:
Hate to break it to you but you can't actually win EVE.


The best you can do is set yourself some goals and have the satisfaction on their completion.


That is true but its not the whole truth. Human nature make it so that the completion of our goals only transform them into something else. Would make no sense to going down the path u are on here. Im talking about the more concrete day to day gameplay of eve.



Often we expand on the goal once we've reached it because we don't want it to end.

Everyone sets goals which effects their day to day gameplay.


Thing about EVE is it is a sandbox and as such there is nothing you can do to win EVE other than complete the goals that you set yourself.


Yes we could keep this philosofical thing going but it will end here with the issue that the day to day goals=todays win is important and thats what the current discussion with purchasable SP seem to adress.

What Im saying in the OP is that unless your todays win only revolves around how much SP u got, your SP just wont matter cause the well established mentality of EVE makes it irrelevant.


I'd refer you to post #5 as what you are talking about in the op has been discussed at great length in other threads already.



Ive been reading a few of these threads and all I can find is the old SP=win or SP does not outweigh experience/skill debate. That is not what Im saying. If I have missed something plz point me in the right direction!
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