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Terrible wardec idea
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Han Rova
Shield Nation
Rising Dominion
#61 - 2016-02-29 19:32:56 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

Baiting him with a freighter comes to mind as one possibility. That said, I sincerely doubt that war aggressors who just won't come out to fight is an actual concern for you, instead of just a contrivance you're employing in an effort to make your position seem more reasonable.

been there done that... baiting? in HS? with them having an entire army of neutral alts watching out? briliant idea... please tell me more.

SurrenderMonkey wrote:

The inability to defend is an entirely self-imposed restriction. You don't get to just opt out of normal game mechanics because they don't mesh with your personal playstyle. Your corporation has 60 members and the backing of an alliance with ten times that in total. This should be more than enough to give most high-sec wardec corps a licking.

And, on that note: It is your entire alliance that is under the war dec. Why are they not assisting you in this matter?


so suddenly we are talking about my corp and aliance? you will lead the chat OT how ever you can just to have the last word do you.
but answer your question anyways. we have made roams to the attackers systems multiple times and they simply do not show up. plus why should we be bothered with hunting them? they are the ones who declared the war. we dont have time to waste on this.

SurrenderMonkey wrote:

Again, if we're making up arbitrary rules, it makes just as much sense to say that if a defender is unable to score a kill in 2 entire days, it should just be assumed that they are surrendering, and their corporate assets should be liquidated and transferred to their victorious conquerors.


you are making as much sence as a plasmathruster banana... why should I be bothered to go looking for someone who declared a war on me?
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#62 - 2016-02-29 19:39:37 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Han Rova wrote:

been there done that... baiting? in HS? with them having an entire army of neutral alts watching out? briliant idea... please tell me more.


People bait in high sec all the time. Have you considered spending more time playing the game and less time making lame excuses about why everything is impossible? As we've already covered, other players regularly succeed where you fail.

This, by the way, is largely the answer to your question re: why everyone is picking on you. You refuse to adapt to adversity while adamantly insisting that the game needs to be changed to solve your problems for you.

Quote:

so suddenly we are talking about my corp and aliance? you will lead the chat OT how ever you can just to have the last word do you.


How is talking about your corp and alliance off topic when you've spent the last three pages of the thread mewling about players leaving your corp over war decs?

Riveting thought process you have.

Quote:
but answer your question anyways. we have made roams to the attackers systems multiple times and they simply do not show up. plus why should we be bothered with hunting them? they are the ones who declared the war. we dont have time to waste on this.


Why should you be bothered with defending your poor, vulnerable newbs from their aggressors? Really? They're only in this situation because your alliance went and got itself wardecced. What good is an alliance if they don't show up to help? Seems a bit useless. Pirate


Quote:

you are making as much sence as a plasmathruster banana... why should I be bothered to go looking for someone who declared a war on me?


The assumption here is that the aggressors showed up and the cowardly defenders refused to undock (or, worse, they just never logged in because they were afraid of the scary wardec). You can't prove otherwise, therefore the defenders automatically lose, their corporation is dissolved, their assets transferred, and their characters biomassed (After their SPs are turned into skill injectors for the conquering warlord, of course).

That's the trouble with making up arbitrary rules. If you get to do it, everyone else does, too.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
KoRex Vandenbrown
Shield Nation
Rising Dominion
#63 - 2016-02-29 21:17:26 UTC
Praal wrote:
Riksma wrote:
Just had a really dumb idea:

If the aggressor fails to score a kill on the defender for a period of 48 (adjusted for taste) hours, the war is over and they can't re-dec for 7 days.


  • If the defender docks up, moves to another area where the aggressor won't follow or otherwise manages to deny content to the aggressor - they're 'smart' and deserve to 'win'.
  • If the aggressor isn't trying to find or kill the defenders - they're just trolling and not interested in fighting and deserve to 'lose'.
  • If 'RandomScrub#25346654353" from the defender feeds kills to keep the war active - he's dumb or a spy, he gets booted and try another 48 hour period.
  • Attacking structures counts - no successful kill required.


I don't even know if I like this idea, and I'm certain that there are exploits I'm not seeing, but this popped into my head while reading the summit minutes and I wanted to put it out there.

I like the general idea of it, but I think some kind of tug-of-war system would benefit wardecs to incentivize actually doing something rather than not playing for 2 days.

Each side gains influence on a War Meter if they destroy ships from the opposing corp, or destroy / reinforce structures from the opposing corp. Additionally the defenders gain points for being undocked and having POSs in space. The balance of the meter determines how fast the war timer ticks down to expiry. Something like 3-10 days depending on relative performance.

Additionally add 50-100% to the ISK price of starting a war, and pay out a % this extra amount to the side that "wins". If attackers can push their performance to 100% (10 days), they get the entirety of the extra fee back. If the defenders "win", they get not only a short, 3 day war, but also a chunk of ISK. If neither side does anything the ISK gets kept by NPCs.




I say no refunds, if people want to burn ISK it is even better as it would in turn counter-act the inflation in the markets.
The war should cost per day, i.e. the longer the war, the more expensive it becomes, ergo no reason to fight unless absolutelly needed.
Han Rova
Shield Nation
Rising Dominion
#64 - 2016-02-29 21:20:11 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:

People bait in high sec all the time. Have you considered spending more time playing the game and less time making lame excuses about why everything is impossible? As we've already covered, other players regularly succeed where you fail.


and I presume you have statistic to support your argument.
note: baiting a noobie and someone with eyes up to 5 jumps in every direction is a compleately different thing.

SurrenderMonkey wrote:

How is talking about your corp and alliance off topic when you've spent the last three pages of the thread mewling about players leaving your corp over war decs?


because Im not talking about my corp Im talking about a much wider scope.

SurrenderMonkey wrote:

Why should you be bothered with defending your poor, vulnerable newbs from their aggressors? Really? They're only in this situation because your alliance went and got itself wardecced. What good is an alliance if they don't show up to help? Seems a bit useless. Pirate

make me a favor and read the forum again... we have already covered the topic on how we can go and look for the attackers all we want and they will just get the easy kill next day...
also some of us have RL and cant spent 12h looking for attackers all day. and I would like to see you sudenly jump 53 jumps to show up to help a frig that can last like 5s. sorry I still lack the skills time warp lvl 5 and teleportation lvl 5.

yea.. we went to a hub and got WD by a corp that WD every corp that comes in with something bigger than a frig..
we went and put up an office in a station that someone used as a camp and WD all corps owning an office there.
we went and had no contact with the corp that declared the war on us what so ever....

if they were regular wars with a meaning then I would not even wrote a word... but wars for no reasons are just nonsence.

SurrenderMonkey wrote:

The assumption here is that the aggressors showed up and the cowardly defenders refused to undock (or, worse, they just never logged in because they were afraid of the scary wardec). You can't prove otherwise, therefore the defenders automatically lose, their corporation is dissolved, their assets transferred, and their characters biomassed (After their SPs are turned into skill injectors for the conquering warlord, of course).

That's the trouble with making up arbitrary rules. If you get to do it, everyone else does, too.


my assumption is that if you are not able to score a kill then you are not realy interested in the war or you are realy bad at it so you shouldnt be bothering other people with your WD anyways.

eve is a game and as far as I know every nonsingle player game requires different score on each of the sides to be able to mark the vicrory of one or another.. if the score is even then there is no winner or loser
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#65 - 2016-02-29 21:32:52 UTC
Han Rova wrote:


my assumption is that if you are not able to score a kill then you are not realy interested in the war or you are realy bad at it so you shouldnt be bothering other people with your WD anyways.

eve is a game and as far as I know every nonsingle player game requires different score on each of the sides to be able to mark the vicrory of one or another.. if the score is even then there is no winner or loser

Please explain to me how you can score a kill if your war target doesn't log in.
Please explain to me why no kills means your war has failed if your objective was to drive them away from a certain area of space.
Please explain to me why you can't do a login trap with your 'newbie easy kill' you are complaining about.
Please explain to me why said newbie is 53 jumps away from you and not in the same system.
Please explain to me why you are so bad at EVE to not already have identified all the above issues with your statement.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#66 - 2016-02-29 21:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Han Rova wrote:


and I presume you have statistic to support your argument.
note: baiting a noobie and someone with eyes up to 5 jumps in every direction is a compleately different thing.


Right, so you're telling me that your opposition, here, is some omnipresent high-sec demigod with eyes all over, yet, they run and hide when you roll into town with a combat ship?

Sounds really plausible.


Quote:
because Im not talking about my corp Im talking about a much wider scope.


Then maybe you shouldn't repeatedly whinge about your members leaving. Ever think of that?

Quote:
make me a favor and read the forum again... we have already covered the topic on how we can go and look for the attackers all we want and they will just get the easy kill next day...


So, wait, what is it. They won't even bother to kill anything, or they'll outplay you and get easy kills? It's so hard to keep track of your wildly inconsistent whinging.

Quote:

also some of us have RL and cant spent 12h looking for attackers all day. and I would like to see you sudenly jump 53 jumps to show up to help a frig that can last like 5s. sorry I still lack the skills time warp lvl 5 and teleportation lvl 5.


They have these things called "jump clones".


Quote:
my assumption is that if you are not able to score a kill then you are not realy interested in the war or you are realy bad at it so you shouldnt be bothering other people with your WD anyways.

eve is a game and as far as I know every nonsingle player game requires different score on each of the sides to be able to mark the vicrory of one or another.. if the score is even then there is no winner or loser


...Is this some sort of ironic performance art? So your suggestion is that if nobody kills anyone for a whole 48 hours, the war is forcibly ended (essentially a victory for the defender), and in the next breath you assert that, with no score, there can't possibly be a winner or loser. These are mutually exclusive arguments.

Anyway, as you said, that's just based on your assumption. My assumption is that the defenders refused to undock. I like me more, so my assumption is better-er and I declare myself the victor of this particular round of Calvinball. Commence with the biomassing! Soylent Green is carebears!

At any rate: While I know we've established that effort isn't really something you're into, if you could at least make a token attempt to display some degree of consistent thinking, that would be grand.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Han Rova
Shield Nation
Rising Dominion
#67 - 2016-02-29 21:58:02 UTC
Quote:
Please explain to me how you can score a kill if your war target doesn't log in.


you dont and that is why you dont win and that is why you should not spend money on something you know are pointless.

Quote:
Please explain to me why no kills means your war has failed if your objective was to drive them away from a certain area of space.


if you did removed them from the area then you have succeded.. Im not arguing about that... have you read my first post?
+ result of the war is not the topic here
Quote:

Please explain to me why you can't do a login trap with your 'newbie easy kill' you are complaining about.


srsy.. login trap is so easy to spot if you have eyes out....

Quote:
Please explain to me why said newbie is 53 jumps away from you and not in the same system.


because he doesnt want to go to null for various reasons... because he is new and actualy wants to see what jita looks like becase that is why he joined the game, becase he heard that this game has a trade hub where hundreds of ships dock and undock every hour and he wants to see it.. how can you tell him "no you will not go there and I dont care if that is the reason why you have joined"
Quote:

Please explain to me why you are so bad at EVE to not already have identified all the above issues with your statement.


what makes you think Im bad at eve?
Berekiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#68 - 2016-03-02 00:41:59 UTC
I have played EVE on and off for about 10 years. I've lived in high sec, low sec, and even a WH corp. From what I have seen wars in EVE are worthless. They are little more than bullying and hissy fit whims. Wars need to be more than a hissy fits or bullying. Wars need to be taken seriously, be costly, and have a greater impact in eve. Also defenders need a way to win a war and make it worth it.

Thoughts for improvement.

Many good ideas have been shared. Here are my general thoughts. I'll leave the implementation and details for CCP to deside and everyone to argue over.

-I love the idea of creating a war pos target for the defender. A goal that will end the war.-

It doesn't have to be a dedicated war pos. It can be one of the aggressors high sec pos selected by random or by the defenders. This element gives the aggressors something to loose. As for balance, small corporations could hire the controlling factions forces to help defend (this could go for both sides) at great cost. Also relation between the corporation and the controlling faction just became imperative. -The lore element of this has great potential.-
Also this means that in order to declare war you have to have a pos. the defender doesn't but the aggressor does.

I believe this will turn wars into a much more serious decision. Also it has always bothered me that the factions were indifferent to people blowing each other up for a small license fee, but would bring in BS for a stealing 0.01isk of cargo.
This thought line makes wars expensive for 24/7 protection that may or may not do you any good and is costing the corporation dearly. Or hire a 24/7 defense corporation for less than faction.
Also cross boarder wars could incur a bounty for faction kills pending on faction.

Wars need to be serious and in HS why shouldn't the factions get involved, it would fit lore. Factions feel as if they have been loosing power and this is a way to take it back, ensure loyalty, and make a profit.

There is my 2isk and I'm sure people will hate the idea but not everyone likes change or would be happy with it. The details I leave for the creators and the forums to debate.