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How to make the Mackinaw a hybrid between the Skiff and the Hulk
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Paranoid Loyd
#21 - 2016-02-26 20:56:36 UTC
What is stopping you from warping to another belt?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2016-02-26 20:57:07 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
.
Hum, do you mind if I ask you in which space you mine ? .............


Guristas - so yes, Exhumers (iirc) have a Gallente-style tank which is probably better.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#23 - 2016-02-26 21:10:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
What is stopping you from warping to another belt?


Well, I could test and see if I lose too much time swapping anom when too big rats come and see if I dont lose too much ore mined to make the Skiff better (m3 of ore mined in two hours for example).

Marcus Tedric wrote:
Exhumers (iirc) have a Gallente-style tank


Maybe that could be only about that actually, at Exhumer V, the Mackinaw has shield resists like this : 20 36 52 60
so maybe my view on his ability to resist rats is only about bad luck on my location. Or would it be silly to even a little the resistances ?

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-02-27 09:26:46 UTC
What exactly is stopping you from coming back in a combat ship or asking somebody to come clear the rats for you? People ask all the time where I roll.

You can:
a) Mine in a system ratters are. However, if they're ratting belts you will get more rat spawns on you but atleast somebody is there to come help you
b) Mine in a system that nobody rats in, get less spawns but also less likely for assistance.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#25 - 2016-02-27 10:58:22 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:
What exactly is stopping you from coming back in a combat ship or asking somebody to come clear the rats for you? People ask all the time where I roll.


It's not really a matter of "I cant mine anymore due to rats" I can do what you say, but if I know i can have assistance for rats, I use a Hulk with a enormous can, I mean if I mine in a ship that needs assistance, I'll just take the better one for the job. What people say about mining AFK I presume here is by not even having to look at the screen but for intel until the sound of the strip miners stop.

Amanda Chan wrote:
You can:
a) Mine in a system ratters are. However, if they're ratting belts you will get more rat spawns on you but atleast somebody is there to come help you
b) Mine in a system that nobody rats in, get less spawns but also less likely for assistance.


Well I'm in a busy null system pocket so if it's not with 10 other blues it will be with 10 reds poking to look for prey, don't know about belts/anomalies rats spawning mechanics. Only thing I know is that around every 3 days I encouter a True Sansha BS that gives one faction module or two.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#26 - 2016-02-28 05:55:09 UTC
Actually the solution to barges is to give them Cruiser (Or BC) level base EHP, slots, PG, CPU & slots. Give them a command ship type restriction on the total number of strip miners that can be fitted.

Then you only need one barge and if it's like a Skif, a Mack or a Hulk depends on how you fit it. Do you ft extended cargo bays, then it's a Mack (Give it enough standard cargo space for them to matter). Fo you fit MLU's. Then it's a Hulk. Do you fit a DCU, Invulns, then it's a Skiff.

But hard baking the stats and forcing three different kinds of barges is where all the problems come from.
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#27 - 2016-02-28 07:49:34 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Uriam Khanid wrote:
retriver/mackinaw - you are AFK
procurer/skiff - you get tank
covetor/hulk - you get yeild
if you want all together (AFK, tank, yield, ore hold) mine in carrier



But that's the problem, It CANT afk in nullsec, it dies to rat, thats what I want to change, just make it able to afk mine in null, because thats the only one on the three ships that cant do its job there, the hulk doesnt have to tank because its supposed to be not alone.


mine in carrier.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#28 - 2016-02-28 14:17:49 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Actually the solution to barges is to give them Cruiser (Or BC) level base EHP, slots, PG, CPU & slots. Give them a command ship type restriction on the total number of strip miners that can be fitted.

Then you only need one barge and if it's like a Skif, a Mack or a Hulk depends on how you fit it. Do you ft extended cargo bays, then it's a Mack (Give it enough standard cargo space for them to matter). Fo you fit MLU's. Then it's a Hulk. Do you fit a DCU, Invulns, then it's a Skiff.

But hard baking the stats and forcing three different kinds of barges is where all the problems come from.


The three mining barges are actually old hulls in the game (and the medium one is broken, some animations dont work anymore), so when the time come where they'll get modernised, that could be a thing to just make one, and actually put the choices in the hand of the pilot instead of proposing 3 hard-coded choices. Stupid will still be able to exist and choices between tank yield or convenience too.

Uriam Khanid wrote:
mine in carrier.


Just wait for the Rorqual to get his polish and what you said will not sound that silly actually.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#29 - 2016-02-28 19:22:38 UTC
How much DPS do null-sec rats do? On average?


I tinkered with EFT and came up with this:

[Mackinaw, New Setup 2]

Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Co-Processor II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
EM Ward Field II
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I

Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


- It is cap stable
- it can perma-tank ~180 DPS of mostly EM-Thermal damage.
- its yield is low... but you are AFK so who cares? If you want a better rate of mining then get a Hulk.

How did you Veterans start?
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#30 - 2016-02-28 19:59:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
ShahFluffers wrote:
How much DPS do null-sec rats do? On average?


I tinkered with EFT and came up with this:

[Mackinaw, New Setup 2]

Damage Control II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Co-Processor II

Shield Boost Amplifier II
Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster
EM Ward Field II
Limited Thermal Dissipation Field I

Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II
Modulated Deep Core Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal II

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II


- It is cap stable
- it can perma-tank ~180 DPS of mostly EM-Thermal damage.
- its yield is low... but you are AFK so who cares? If you want a better rate of mining then get a Hulk.



I'll take a look at this, but seriously, all the complex small shield booster cost around or more than 100M isk, so around 60-70% the price of the hull, that will die to the first PVP accident.

EDIT : Well, as far as I looked a the numbers on paper (PyFa), it repairs around the same (2 Hp/s different), and have near identical EM and TH resistances. But it costs 100M more (371M for yours and 274M for mine), have a inferior yield, and will not be enough like mine for the nastier packs of rats, but i can try to be sure (is there a way to get faction stuff on SiS by the way ?). Here is mine if you want to take a look :

[Mackinaw, active tank]

Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Capacitor Flux Coil II

Upgraded EM Ward Amplifier I
Cap Recharger II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster (52M)
Thermal Dissipation Amplifier II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Arkonor Mining Crystal II

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Core Defense Capacitor Safeguard II

Mining Drone II x5
Acolyte II x5

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#31 - 2016-02-28 20:25:32 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
I'll take a look at this, but seriously, all the complex small shield booster cost around or more than 100M isk, so around 60-70% the price of the hull, that will die to the first PVP accident.

To be fair... any fit you create for a Mackinaw or Hulk will die in a PvP encounter (unless you have Remote Repair support nearby).

Even the Procurer or Skiff... when fit for PvP... can only take on the odd Frigate and Destroyer (or two) by itself. Anything more powerful or in numbers and it will die like the rest.


Keep in mind: you are flying a cruiser that is designed to harvest rocks... not participate in focused combat.

How did you Veterans start?
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#32 - 2016-02-28 20:38:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
ShahFluffers wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
I'll take a look at this, but seriously, all the complex small shield booster cost around or more than 100M isk, so around 60-70% the price of the hull, that will die to the first PVP accident.

To be fair... any fit you create for a Mackinaw or Hulk will die in a PvP encounter (unless you have Remote Repair support nearby).

Even the Procurer or Skiff... when fit for PvP... can only take on the odd Frigate and Destroyer (or two) by itself. Anything more powerful or in numbers and it will die like the rest.

Keep in mind: you are flying a cruiser that is designed to harvest rocks... not participate in focused combat.


Yes, being shiny or not doesnt matter in nullsec, anyone at the wrong place will die, miner or not. But what I mean is using the most expensive small shield booster with a booster is still not enough to tank the worst rats for the Mack, and a 374M is something that hurts when lost.

EDIT : there's something I overlook about shinies : complex resistances are kind of cheap actually, with pithum C-type EM amplifier (18.3M) and a gistum c-type thermal amplifier (5.15M) with a shield boost amplifier II, I can go up to a 243 HP/s instead of the previous 150 ish from the fit of ShahFluffers and my previous one. Not capstable at all 1min12 but a medium gistum doesnt repair enough, it actually repairs with shield boost amplifier the same than the Pith A-type fit of ShahFluffers. I'll try if I can micromanage the capacitor by using short repair impulses (2-3 cycle at a time and not firing both miner at the same time).

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2016-03-01 16:49:26 UTC
Personally I find the Mack kind of meh, since I can sidle next to few enormous freight container and chuck ore into there. Hell, if you saw the TMC's video on newbee mining, I think they had some carrier/titans on field, which..I presume is to make use of the fleet hangar/provide protection?....I don't ask questions that will just make me question life endless.

That said, with those options available the Mack is just..meh? A skiff has the same yield over time, uses only 1 crystal, fields a much stronger tank and can even solo the triple BS spawns that you will occasionally get(if you have good drone/tanking skills).

On the other hand you have the hulk laying the ungodly smackdown on everything for ore/ice mining.

The mack just means you can hold the ore internally if not chucking into something else. Sure it sucks if a neut or somebody blows up that container. But think of it this way, they had to chew through 50k hp(not a lot I know),in that time the other people who might be in another anom/belt that aren't really pay attention will hopefully have noticed something was afoot in local/intel and warped out.

A lot of people don't bother, unless they want to be a douche...which..this is EVE, since the containers don't even generate Killmails. It's just tear farming, which puts them at risk of getting caught by the response team.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#34 - 2016-03-02 17:10:33 UTC
Actually there's not a lot of people that go after cans, and yes as you said, if they're alone and spend time doing that, they can get caught pretty fast, I killed one or two pirate wannabe because of this.

After asking in local and around, meh or underwelming are definitely words that appears often to describe the Mackinaw compared to the two other exhumers, but how it could be changed by a little margin is not that easy to think of. One thing I see no problem about is the Retriever though, the T1 variant is perfectly fine as it is.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
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