Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I find your comment invalid as it has already happened before. and if so then what are you scared off?



no.. 99% of them find it easier to leave the game. and that is what they do... they leave. again puting you into the role of a bad boy that will not let anyone play in his sandbox.
what nerfs are you talking about? you just stated that they will never counter you.

well lets be reasonable if you are a small group and you wardec someone who has 2x more people what can you expect it will happen? will you be able to kill a citadel with 10 people if there is 20 people defending it? I presume you will be overpowered and you will not be sucessfull. the only thing you will achieve is that noobies in that corp will stay docked for a week because they are the only possible targets.

Apparently you don't completely read the replies to your posts. I am a PvEer, not a carebear, not a wardeccer. I go on occasional PvP roams, but my main play style is missioning. Your suggestion would do nothing but benefit me, because I'm the type of player that would grab a couple corpmates and steamroll a small wardec corp to end a war early. Still, I am against your idea. Your idea is an unnecessary punishment to small and one man wardec corps, for no reason than you don't feel their "reason" for the wardec is valid. Your idea is entirely counter to the spirit of a sandbox game.


No, what is reasonable is for a small group of skilled players to be able to pursue a war against a larger force. Your idea does nothing but encourage the N+1 meta that has caused nullsec to become as stagnant. Your "think of the newbies" justification is fairly lame, and the most often used excuse for bad ideas.

well the noobies will clearly stay docked still while the rest of the corp will deal with the threat, that will most likely never change.. but there is a chance they will not have to stay docked for as long.


so they will get it to reinforce mode... so?
then if you are realy interested in the war then you will come to repair the unit as it comes out of reinforce. if they can still kill you then you clearly have no power to do what ever to them anyway or if you dont come to repair it then you are not interested in the war anyways and you dont deserve nothing else than to lose the unit and war anyways.



why shouldnt a small corp be able to wardec? just do it... but expect your but get kicked.
anyways how would you do it now? wardec a large corp and if they actualy go looking for you with superior force then you dock and logoff? this is only prooving my point.



believe me we have went multiple times over this. and while the link you have posted is absolutely valid for some. its not working for everyone.
eg:
1) haulers, do you want to isolate people in NPC corp just because they like hauling?
2) new recruits, try explaining to a 6 day old player they cant go to the hubs and not to do several other things. well I know what answer Im geting: "and you guys pay $30 a month for not being able to use half of the game? well good luck with that Im off to fallout 4"

and this is the main reason why Im doing this... if wouldnt care about corpmates I can just move to null and leave you and your sily HS wars and not care about them. but I do care about people and I do want people to play together. unfortunetly the war system as it is now is jud deviding people.
so please help me to come up with a solution/suggestion how to make it better for everyone.

Two sensible ideas to make your perceived problem with wardecs better:

1) Implement a social corporation for your new players that is not allowed to deploy structures or collect taxes, but is immune to wardecs.
2) Remove wardecs completely and move all corporation bonuses to structures (i.e. you need a structure to collect taxes or share a hanger) so corporations with no in-space assets (or any benefits over the NPC Corp) are immune to attack. Then make structures vulnerable to everyone like the MTU, and just give a suspect flag.

But honestly, your concern for new players is noble but misplaced. CCP Rise told us last year at Fanfest that new players who experience (and die in) wars are more likely to stay with the game than those for which nothing interesting happens in that first month. I am sure wars can be tweaked to be made better, or even completely revamped, but making it so small corps cannot use the mechanic because they cannot hold a specific grid against a more powerful opponent is not the way to do it. Small groups need to be able to engage in a guerrilla war against larger opponents if you want interesting things to happen in the sandbox other than the biggest force just blobbing a win each time.

I like this idea, we had a similar idea where a corp could chose if wants to be imune to wars but would lose any rights to deploy or own structures.


I was thinking about this idea as well but sometimes the corp bonuses are the thing that forms new bonds in a fresh corp. for example the corp I have started as a few months old char would never make it past 4 members and wouldnt last if we didnt have a shared hangar. and deploying structures would probably not be an option for corps formed by young chars where every isk is turned twice before spent.



I know my experience with new players maybe isnt the best but more than 200 people went thru my hands in the last 16 months and the biggest number killer was always the inactivity that is true.. but that in my experience the inactivity has always started to settle in when we got wardeced and we were not able to generate events for these players.

I agree that even small groups should be able to do wars IF they are able to handle it.
I want to get rid of wars where the attacker only camps hubs and ocasionly roam thru systems.
I want to get rid of wars where there is no real target or goal and the only reason is that the attacker was bored and WD all corps that have offices in amarr stations or all corps that have a corp ad

if there are ideas how to refine my proposal, I will gladly change it. and if a different better idea apears I will even thow my proposal into the trash.

This is all untrue. Just because people choose not to use the options available to them to avoid losses from a wardec does not mean they don't exist. I've played every day of the, so far, 6 days of my current wardec, still running l4 missions, and have had zero losses. I haven't logged most of my alts on, and none of them near my normal stomping grounds.

Just simply fly smarter than your wartargets. It's not rocket science, and it doesn't need more nerfs.

Got a citation for this, or are we just accepting it as a fact because you said so?




So, since the odds are so clearly in favor of the large group, there's actually no need to provide some arbitrary McGuffin for them to shoot at to "win" the war, then, right?




First of all: Attrition warfare is real, and legitimate. Preventing someone from earning a billion in new assets is pretty much just as good as destroying a billion in existing assets. There's a huge conflict in Fade right now in which the primary goal of the aggressors (TISHU and Pandemic Horde) is to destroy the earning potential of SpaceMonkeys Alliance. And they're doing so quite effectively.

Secondly, if your members are getting bored and leaving over wardecs - particularly wardecs by smaller entities - it's because of ****** leadership. One half-awake FC and some newbs in T1 cruisers can generally, at least, come out ahead, ISK wise. Fielding a few blackbirds can be supremely obnoxious.

If they're bored, it's not because of the game mechanic, but because incompetent leadership hasn't given them an option better than ship-spinning.

I honestly dont notice HS war decs i live in null i see a target i shoot a target everyone wants to pop me so i try not to let political matters get to me an i guess if say a null sec corp war decs then i guess they go from shoot the nuet to shoot the star?

Well after a coffee an summit to eat plus a debate with my corp leader I feel I have posted and not really made my point... all of the above does applie to me as a solo player, from day 1 I have pretty much been going at it alone forging friends here and there I have out of corp alts so for me HS war decs dont bother me they are just another aspect of the game I dont get involved in.

However...
For a corp of any size big and small being war dec'd for the sake of easy kills/lolz and with out purpose ie to force small corps single tax dogding players into doing nothing "because you can" is a needless burden and gains both parties nothing for the trouble.
For our corp recruitment becomes more difficult, most of us live in null there are no rookie systems in null so during HS war against us we dont recruit fresh blood, we dont grow, and we dont provide added content for the community.
For a newbro like me when i first started i searched for a corp using the search option i tailored it to my needs and applied, shortly after joining we were war dec'd which I thought awesome... turns out it wasnt so awesome being told I was stupidly out gunned as sitting just outside of system was a 40 man gang waiting to hit us few out of a few more active players, I spent that first week a month into eve sat in station with nothing to do i got great advise but when your new you want content not a friendly chat sadly or gladly?! i left corp and moved away from the area, my rl friends didnt stick it out past the first month all bitchin about blops or no understanding of the game as new players on my own a year ago i wouldnt take us all out to null to get a handle on things and get used to operating in eve.

so

Sorry, but your inability to produce evidence of your assertions is not proof of their validity. The evidence CCP has released in the not to far distant past actually shows a positive correlation between higher player retention and unwilling exposure to PvP. The people who actually have the numbers seriously tried to find validity in claims similar to yours, and stated they were quite surprised to find they could not.


Earning potential of a newbie in highsec is irrelevant. During my current wardec, I've seen no appreciable decline in my earnings simply by using the 24 hour build up to the war starting to move a single mission ship a good distance away from my normal territory. Very few wardecers are going to fly 20+ jumps away to look for a target. Several others in my corp, including some newbies, have gone to play with exploration, and the miners did the same as I, moved operations to an area removed from the usual operations area.

Oh, and if you really think HS is not where the money is earned, you really need to dig more into the various regions of the game and how they work.


1. SurrenderMonkey is spot on here. My corp's little wardec has cost us a small handful of players, because the leadership and other vets, like myself, took it upon ourselves to show the newbies what other options they had besides hiding in station for a week, options other than PvP. Good leadership and supportive vets who understand that not all PvP is consentual make a huge difference. Leadership who view wardecs as something bad, rather than an opportunity to get outside the box and experience more of what EvE has to offer, are truly a cancer on the player base.
2. Single sided PvPer view? If that's the case, then why do I, who spends 99% of his online time doing PvE, not support your idea which would only benefit me? Perhaps it's because I have a better understanding of the game and its possibilities?
3. You are entirely focused on what you cannot do. You cannot do this, you cannot do that, etc. What I want to know is, why the **** can't you? Put aside laziness and fear and really look at the reasons you're stating. The mechanics are there, the aggressors are using them, and so can you. The risk is there, but that's intended to be part of the fun, and it is quite easy to marginalize. If you really don't want to PvP, then ask yourself why the hell you're playing a game where nearly every single aspect of it is some form of PvP. From jockeying for rocks in a belt, to selling LP gear on the market, to blowing up a freighter full of loot, there's far, far more PvP in EvE than strictly PvE.
4. You're trying to come up with a solution to a problem that doesn't actually exist. The problem is that you're looking at EvE in a way that doesn't mesh with the game, and trying to make it conform to the way you want it to be. SurMonk and I are giving constructive feedback, we're telling you what you can already do using the established tools. The negativity here is only coming from you and your "can't do" outlook.

P.S. If you really want, feel free to convo me in game or invite me to your corp's public chat. I will happily go over the options you and your corpmates have when dealing with a wardec.