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Neutral Pilots at FW Capture Points

Author
CPL Ellis
Definition of God
#1 - 2016-02-26 21:43:05 UTC
Hello community,

This is my first post on the forums. I am not trolling nor do I intend to and I am looking for constructive feedback. Please keep that in mind when reading this post.

I have played EVE on and off since 2013. I started to really get into the game once I heard about FW. I feel it is a good way to break the ice into the PVP world and provides an invaluable learning experience for new pilots. However, I have noticed a slight "flaw" from my perspective with the capture system.

Last night I was capping a facility when a neutral pilot warped in. All I could really do was target him but ultimately he has control over the engagement unless I want to take a security hit. Long story short he waited until the situation was in his favor to engage and by that time there wasn't much I could do. The outcome of the fight would have been completely different if I was able to engage him when he warped in from the acceleration gate.

I love ganking. I love fighting my way through unfavorable odds. I love pvp. I don't like the fact that the mechanics of the game prevent me from defending myself in a PVP war zone. Doesn't make sense.

Maybe everything I said is wrong. Perhaps there is a way to attack first, but I haven't figured out how. If everything I stated is correct I have suggestion on how to fix this system.

If a neutral pilot warps into a war zone facility I believe they should be flagged as a "suspect". This would not restrict their access to the area but at least give pilots the opportunity to defend themselves without worrying about a security hit for those of us that don't operate out of low sec space. There is really no other reason for them to be there so by going to a site they have consciously accepted the risk of doing so. This does not restrict or impact the sand box aspect of the game and doesn't restrict anyone from assisting group or fleet members.

Please let me know what you guys think.

CPL Ellis
Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2016-02-26 21:53:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
I just did this at the beginning of the month, I don't have the energy to do it again. Read this. Basically, I told the guy I would pay him to test how many neuts he could attack before his sec status dropped to -2. It's been almost a month and he has gone from .3 to .2.

In summary, no, nothing needs to change you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

CPL Ellis
Definition of God
#3 - 2016-02-26 23:01:35 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I just did this at the beginning of the month, I don't have the energy to do it again. Read this. Basically, I told the guy I would pay him to test how many neuts he could attack before his sec status dropped to -2. It's been almost a month and he has gone from .3 to .2.

In summary, no, nothing needs to change you are making a mountain out of a molehill.



I attacked one person and went from 0.1 to -2.4

Feel free to verify.
Paranoid Loyd
#4 - 2016-02-26 23:07:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
You are mistaken. There is no way to do that unless you pod the other player. Let's see a screen shot of your security log.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
#5 - 2016-02-26 23:23:31 UTC
I like roaming FW systems as a neut specifically for these types of posts. I'm the low-sec equivalent of an AFK cloaker!

Just say NO to Dailies

Samaah
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
#6 - 2016-02-26 23:32:39 UTC
I like it when neutrals punch in to FW anomalies and complain about getting blobbed by militia members.

Well no #@%^ man, we'd be in here spinning around buttons with or without your presence.
pushdogg
relocation LLC.
#7 - 2016-02-27 02:32:07 UTC
CPL Ellis wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
I just did this at the beginning of the month, I don't have the energy to do it again. Read this. Basically, I told the guy I would pay him to test how many neuts he could attack before his sec status dropped to -2. It's been almost a month and he has gone from .3 to .2.

In summary, no, nothing needs to change you are making a mountain out of a molehill.



I attacked one person and went from 0.1 to -2.4

Feel free to verify.


That is a bit much, I think even if you podded the guy it wouldn't be that bad....maybe though.

If I were you I would freely attacks neuts like war targets, just remember that flashy red guys and suspect guys are engageable anywhere and without consequence.
Oreb Wing
Last Rites.
Villore Accords
#8 - 2016-02-27 03:14:56 UTC
It goes down pretty quick after podding. NOT attempting to pod non-fw pilots after a fight is ... well, it takes a lot of self-restraint. If they fly pirate it is almost necessary.

This is not RvB. It is a warzone and system of territorial control. It should have been resolved a long time ago and hopefully still will soon.
CPL Ellis
Definition of God
#9 - 2016-02-27 03:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: CPL Ellis
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You are mistaken. There is no way to do that unless you pod the other player. Let's see a screen shot of your security log.


You are absolutely right I did pod him. If I don't he warps to local stations refits and comes back. There should be no reason why I can't pod a pirate even if I attacked first in a FW zone.

Here is the screenshot

Cost me over 200mil in tags because I defended myself because..... logic
Lucy Callagan
KarmaFeet
GoonSwarm.
#10 - 2016-02-27 09:18:02 UTC
who needs ss anyway ?
Aves Asio
#11 - 2016-02-27 12:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Aves Asio
If you are inside the complex you have the advantage. If someone wants to come inside he has to warp to the acceleration gate and then warp in, this gives you enough time to see what kind of ship is coming to you on your dscan. Set it to max range 360 degrees, that will show you everything inside the 14AU range, then set it to 0AU which is 1 million km, if dscan shows something on 1 millon km that means that the ship is on the acceleration gate. At that point you have to make the choice of staying and fighting or running away.

The other big advantage once inside the plex is that you get to decide at what range you want to start the engagement. All ships that enter the plex will land on the beacon so if you are flying a close range ship you can move close to the beacon or if you are flying a long range setup you can move away from the beacon.

Neutral, wartaget of friendly it doesnt make a diference if you are prepared for the thing that is comming to you. The sec status loss is not that big if you dont kill the capsule but it will acumulate over time and eventualy you will have to either buy clone tags and redem them at a concord station for sec status or kill npc ships in belts and combat sites.
pinball wiz
Executioners Dynasty
Local Is Primary
#12 - 2016-02-27 13:43:26 UTC
I agree If a neutral pilot warps into a FW plex they should be flagged suspect.

Plus if thay are not in FW but are entering a cal/gall min/amarr military complex is that not like just walking in to area 51 straped like rambo and expect the gards to hello befor thay drop you like a sack of $h!t What?
Joel Vaille
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-02-27 18:21:36 UTC
pvp in low sec with players your not at war with = lower sec status. doesnt make a lick of sense. everyone in the fw plex should be flagged suspect so neutral players can attack too.

i dont see why podding takes the giant hit that it does. i found a new player in a rookie ship that was just flying around low sec and wanted to blow him up and send him so isk and offer my help. i popped his pod too bc honestly flying all the way back to high sec after losing your ship is depressing. i took a giant hit on my sec status. despite the start up money i gave him and the advice im the bad guy apparently.

i feel like people who gate camp and maybe even the ones who chill outside stations to pop players should be the ones who take a small sec hit. not the ones doing what most the game is designed around.

maybe have a system where the dead player can set a price for the other player to pay him to make the security status hit go away. it would beneficial to bother players. that would especially be good for pods. if a pod is empty and your not fighting a system battle, who doesnt want to get podded back home so they can reship?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#14 - 2016-02-27 23:29:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Bumblefck
CPL Ellis wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You are mistaken. There is no way to do that unless you pod the other player. Let's see a screen shot of your security log.


You are absolutely right I did pod him. If I don't he warps to local stations refits and comes back. There should be no reason why I can't pod a pirate even if I attacked first in a FW zone.

Here is the screenshot

Cost me over 200mil in tags because I defended myself because..... logic



You are quite foolish. You didn't need to pod him in order to defend yourself; you'd already killed his ship, by which point he'd been incapacitated in terms of being a threat to you. Your podding him was entirely your decision and, as with all decisions in this game which you purport to love, there are consequences to one's actions.


Don't want to lose your sec status? Don't be a violent homicidal manic and blow up every poor space traveller that you come across. Don't want neutrals in 'your' plex? Shoot them, and rat your ~~precious~~ sec status back up.



e: you shooting first makes you the pirate, by the way. I hope the Amarritian Fraction cans you for your heinousness

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Silverbackyererse
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-02-28 06:12:22 UTC
Pvping in low sec. Bad sec status. Sounds about right to me.
CPL Ellis
Definition of God
#16 - 2016-02-28 22:20:13 UTC
Bumblefck wrote:
CPL Ellis wrote:
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
You are mistaken. There is no way to do that unless you pod the other player. Let's see a screen shot of your security log.


You are absolutely right I did pod him. If I don't he warps to local stations refits and comes back. There should be no reason why I can't pod a pirate even if I attacked first in a FW zone.

Here is the screenshot

Cost me over 200mil in tags because I defended myself because..... logic



You are quite foolish. You didn't need to pod him in order to defend yourself; you'd already killed his ship, by which point he'd been incapacitated in terms of being a threat to you. Your podding him was entirely your decision and, as with all decisions in this game which you purport to love, there are consequences to one's actions.


Don't want to lose your sec status? Don't be a violent homicidal manic and blow up every poor space traveller that you come across. Don't want neutrals in 'your' plex? Shoot them, and rat your ~~precious~~ sec status back up.



e: you shooting first makes you the pirate, by the way. I hope the Amarritian Fraction cans you for your heinousness



You are right he should be able to pod me with no consequences other than his Sec loss which he obviously doesn't care about. However, since he attacked me three times earlier that day then by defending myself when he returns an hour later should be considered a crime and by podding him I should be severely punished (Especially in a war zone mind you.)
Nykr
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-02-29 00:05:08 UTC
The reason possing takes such a large sec loss is because it used to be a big thing when you were able to loose SP by not having an updated clone. It still is if you have implants.

If he attacked you a couple times before, And he podded you, you should have a killright on him. You can then attack him without a problem.

The reason you were able to pod him is because he obviously had nothing in the station in system to ship up in. And he was looking at a free taxi home. You podding him made him actually get into a new ship faster then keeping him alive. A pod insta warps, and you should not be able to catch it.

Just don't pod and you wont have a problem, the sec loss from aggressing and then killing the ship is very low. killing a few rats will get that sec status loss back.

Estella Osoka
Perkone
Caldari State
#18 - 2016-02-29 03:38:33 UTC
Going to guess he didn't shoot back, did he?
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
Externa Group
#19 - 2016-02-29 17:06:19 UTC
This are game mechanics. They are what they are. If you are in lowsec and care about your sec status, you either die a lot or have to rat / buy tags.

I would also prefer flagging neutrals who enter in FW complexes for convenience reasons. But under current mechanics Ijust shoot them. And as said repeatedly - if you do not pod them, it takes forever to go below minus 5.
Morgan Agrivar
Doomheim
#20 - 2016-02-29 17:42:54 UTC
Sounds like they have still yet to make it where neutrals flag suspect when entering a FW plex. I thought CCP was making this happen a while ago. I guess citadels are more important in their minds.
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