Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I would argue that the game is not becoming more shallow by this measure..

Apparently GD is the only location discussion can occur? Sure the general premise may be GD worthy, but the proposal which punctuates the post puts it just as much in F&I territory.

Dead thread.

No worries, I corrected that for free.

So...do you have an actual example of this or nah?

The original post
Any "solutions" are there as examples of different design directions.
Right, first of all:
....
No. Actually, NO. I know you guys, most of you read the first bit of a post, assume you know what it is going to be about and hit reply.
The changes that are most recent and show the trend are as follows.

Why did it change?
Null SOV was static, stale and not changing much.
Fozzie's team decided to try and implement guerilla warfare. (Fair enough intention)
What is wrong with it?
Interceptors mining nodes while avoiding Tech 3 Destroyers (T3Ds)
Fleets camping gates bored, can't even shoot at something.
No sacrifice. You can't gimp your fleet pushing damage to grind structures faster.
No tactic involving the structures themselves.
Few T3Ds can go defend a structure and that is it. No need for a CTA (Call to Arms).
What has essentially happened here?
While trying to make SOV less complex, Fozzie's team have made the Null SOV game shallow.
How could it have been done better?
Make a breeding area. - Static coalitions need competition. That won't come from current Null Players so an alliance breeding pool needed to be made. - Low Sec is not sufficient for growing alliances. - Worm Holes are better but have trust problems (which might be solved by Citadels)
Reduce Titan and Super damage drastically.
Cut regular capital damage. What? Why would you do this? Well then if you don't have all that damage then you don't need all the hit points in the structures that make them a boring grind. Obviously.
Okay, so Fozzie SOV had a weird approach that has not worked out. Everything except N3 has remained pretty much the same (and they were being crushed by Goons before Phoebe anyway, the cracks in the dam were there).

What was the problem?
Essentially, victims were served on a silver platter. - Gankers could camp systems all day an night. - Industrials (freighters and such), can't tank in a fleet and can be blown away right under you. No point escorting them. - More and more mechanic solutions, tying player hands, penalising them. - Lack of mechanics that empower defenders against attacks. - War Dec mechanics (gods, this one is tough and I do get it that you put band aids around it and ran away from it)
Essentially, this has happened. <-- (not my creation)
Solutions?
I don't know
One thing that might help is recognising coalitions and fleets in the mechanics From Null Sec, I would love to go and crush some War Dec corps but not all our fleet members can fight because of the mechanics.
Destroyers.
What is the basic concept behind them?
GLASS CANNON!
So what the hell are these Tech 3 and Command Destroyers doing with cruiser type tanks and frigate like signatures / speeds / align times?
There is no fix for this "I wanna blow away all frigates and some cruisers," teenager fantasy types of ships.

Selling short cuts. "To help the newbies" "Think about how a newbie can't fly a bling toon"
No. Think about veterans flying perfect toons / ships and blowing away newbies.
How this could have been done better?
Speed up new player skill gains until they hit 5M SP and do this only on their first character of their account.
All of the above boils down to this:

If you want to appeal to "tantrum kids" aka "WoW type players" then don't do it by half measures.
You are fundamentally altering the game and pushing some veterans away.
You are not changing the game drastically enough to keep attention deficient brats.

How it can be done better?
Fork the game. Don't torture us with this more and more shallow game.
Open up an "Epic" server:
Sell fitted ships so people can just keep on smashing them together.
Let them buy absolutely everything for "micro transactions"
Give them a High Sec that is completely safe, where you can't make a hostile action to other players.
20 High Sec systems
15 NPC Null Sec systems (3 per Pirate faction)
N00bs don't want to travel 40 jumps to go get fights, die and spawn back at the start.
.... and finally?
Give us, the real EVE players back the REAL game of EVE Online and stop watering it down into a mix of booze and mentholated spirits. No sane person wants to drink that.
More ways to play. Less "stuff" that iterates upon what you already have. Less over powered "god mode like" toys.

So Jenshae is still clueless about the game. Got it. Some corrections running through the chart.


1. T3Ds can't catch ceptors...how about using your ceptor. tossing ships can't go faster than 4k.

2. Not all the structures are out involving sov. Chill.

3. Simply declaring null more shallow doesn't make it so.

4. Yes gankers can camp systems day and night. What do you want?

5. Why would hauling ships be tanky? They're not combat ships. Bring YOUR fleet and escort your haulers with logi. Quit being bad.

6. Did you look at this link? http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-1GLOJLfLxCg/VhbRZ4DV6rI/AAAAAAAADr8/sDXAPJhl7tk/s1600/HTFU.jpg It argues directly against your point.

7. Who said destroyers are suppose to be glass cannons? They're anti-frig ships.

8. Trust me the 60 mil SP people blow people up that are 5 mil SP just as easy as if they were 80. I mean this argument really shows you don't understand basic aspects of gameplay.