These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

RMT and Null Sec Alliances

Author
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#81 - 2012-01-11 19:21:23 UTC
AHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Reilly Duvolle's STUPID IS STILL BURNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HALP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]

Morganta
The Greater Goon
#82 - 2012-01-11 19:23:53 UTC
the problem of rampant accusations would go away if someone simply sued CCP for libel by allowing accusational posts that defame a player or groups character and reputation to remain on the boards.

not sure where iceland stands on the issue of personal libel, but as far as I know none of the accusers of corp wide RMT are members of the press, so Iceland's journalist protection laws don't apply

its a legal toughie, but CCP really should crack down on baseless public accusations all the same
Ursula LeGuinn
Perkone
Caldari State
#83 - 2012-01-11 19:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Ursula LeGuinn
Cybele Lanier wrote:

Typically in law, the one making an accusation has to provide proof that it's true. For example, if I start saying you enjoy intimate relations with sheep, technically my accusation is merely unsubstantiated (you can't prove you never have), but it's quite rightly worthless as an assertion unless I can prove it. Otherwise, all I have is a smear campaign against someone I dislike, attempting to use rumour and insinuation and constantly (as we see in this thread) dodging away from posting this supposedly ubiquitous and indisputable evidence.


Keep in mind that the original proposition I responded to was, "Let's prove or disprove this once and for all" (paraphrasing). I assert that disproof is impossible to obtain when dealing with such a generalized sentiment.

You can certainly demonstrate that X started a smear campaign against Y, and that would discredit X, but that by no means precludes a clever RMT ring that even the smear campaigner didn't realize existed. Two facts lend credence to this hearsay: That RMT is possible in EVE, and that players do engage in it (shady sites are proof of that).

A third truth is that CCP's hands aren't clean, either. People still don't fully trust CCP after that blueprint incident, and said incident fuels these fires to this day.

I really can't discuss this is in too much detail, because people will think I'm choosing sides and that I believe the RMT rings exist. That's not the case at all. If anything, I'm "agnostic" about it: Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I choose not to speculate. What I will not do is say they definitely do or definitely don't exist.

"The EVE forums are intended to provide a warm, friendly atmosphere for the EVE community." — EVElopedia

Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#84 - 2012-01-11 19:26:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Morganta wrote:
the problem of rampant accusations would go away if someone simply sued CCP for libel by allowing accusational posts that defame a player or groups character and reputation to remain on the boards.

not sure where iceland stands on the issue of personal libel, but as far as I know none of the accusers of corp wide RMT are members of the press, so Iceland's journalist protection laws don't apply

its a legal toughie, but CCP really should crack down on baseless public accusations all the same



Nice to see a pro-oppression voice.
Refreshing really... Roll




















What part of buy ISK online is not clear when you google it?
How utterly stupid can people be?

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2012-01-11 19:29:44 UTC
Avensys wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
For all those people who truly believe that alliances are involved in RMT.. now is the time to put up or shut up.

If you had wanted a reasonable discussion you should have made clear distinction between

(a) single (rank and file) individuals in an alliance participating in such behavior (maybe being tolerated by leadership)

(b) the alliance leadership organizing such behavior on alliance level.


(a) is easy enough to prove (just buy ISK, supercapitals or accounts on any of a dozen forums dedicated to that purpose and see who the guy selling it to you is - it 's not morally bad as long as you only do it For Science).
e.g. here is a post I copied from some RMT forum
Quote:
Regret to sell but have no more time for this game, so selling this awesome account with it's main char.

Some highlights :
114 mil sp + 5 mil still to be specced as you wish
almost 5 bill cash
with assets / loyalty points / research points worth a lot of isk
very good standings for missions (level 5 caldari navy)
positive security standings

Most ships level 5, perfect electronics and engineering, ...
Tried to put up some things in the screenie :
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/characterq.jpg/

All this for 750 dollars
pm me for further questions or put it below,

it's really a very good char !

thanks,
kind regards,
F

looking at the screenshot we see that this guy has a jumpclone in C-J6MT which means that he is/was either a member of Red Alliance (extremely likely), Atlas (maybe), IRC (very unlikely) or one of their allies.

Is this proof for the generalization that MEMBERS OF 0.0 ALLIANCES ENGAGE IN RMT?

(b) will be hard to prove without being a director in one of these alliances. Especially as leadership will always try to make it look like (a) to CCP.


That can narrow it down enough for CCP to track them. Cant be too many pilots who match up with all those things
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#86 - 2012-01-11 19:31:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Morganta wrote:
the problem of rampant accusations would go away if someone simply sued CCP for libel by allowing accusational posts that defame a player or groups character and reputation to remain on the boards.

not sure where iceland stands on the issue of personal libel, but as far as I know none of the accusers of corp wide RMT are members of the press, so Iceland's journalist protection laws don't apply

its a legal toughie, but CCP really should crack down on baseless public accusations all the same



Nice to see a pro-oppression voice.
Refreshing really... Roll










What part of buy ISK online is not clear when you google it?
How utterly stupid can people be?


pro-oppression?
how do you figure?

the boards are moderated
Now if I can get a TOS warning and a lock because I posted a thread calling you an ignorant prick, why shouldn't I get one for calling (enter alliance you hate the most here) a pack of cheaters and criminals?

and I don't google buy isk online
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2012-01-11 19:35:38 UTC
Morganta wrote:


pro-oppression?
how do you figure?

the boards are moderated
Now if I can get a TOS warning and a lock because I posted a thread calling you an ignorant prick, why shouldn't I get one for calling (enter alliance you hate the most here) a pack of cheaters and criminals?


Because there is a very good chance its trueStraight
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#88 - 2012-01-11 19:37:50 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Morganta wrote:


pro-oppression?
how do you figure?

the boards are moderated
Now if I can get a TOS warning and a lock because I posted a thread calling you an ignorant prick, why shouldn't I get one for calling (enter alliance you hate the most here) a pack of cheaters and criminals?


Because there is a very good chance its trueStraight


and an equally good chance it's untrue Straight
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#89 - 2012-01-11 19:39:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Morganta wrote:


pro-oppression?
how do you figure?

the boards are moderated
Now if I can get a TOS warning and a lock because I posted a thread calling you an ignorant prick, why shouldn't I get one for calling (enter alliance you hate the most here) a pack of cheaters and criminals?

and I don't google buy isk online



If you don't understand the difference, then I don't really care to try and explain it to you. I mean I could call you an arrogant fool, so conceded that he can't see past the funky shaped nose on his face, but that would not be the same as debating something whose effects are clearly visible on a basic google search.



Also WOW is that way right? ArrowArrow



These are the eve forums, and this is apparently what we do here. So yea, you're supporting pro-oppression and censorship. Nice... real nice. Especially since you will no doubt turn around and ***** about being censored should it suit you.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2012-01-11 19:39:54 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Morganta wrote:
Quote:

Because there is a very good chance its trueStraight


and an equally good chance it's untrue Straight


Thus are the reputations of empires and tales of yore made.
Born Again Gallente
Doomheim
#91 - 2012-01-11 19:43:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Born Again Gallente
THIS THREAD IS FULL OF VILLAINY!

Oh, and I have the best Harvard lawyers on retainer you filthy sheep-shagging red-coats, so don't even think about suing!

(Also, I heard midget mafia is an rmt racket)

(and they wear ladies pantaloons)

(I assume you call them pantaloons)

(m8m8m8)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#92 - 2012-01-11 19:44:43 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Morganta wrote:


pro-oppression?
how do you figure?

the boards are moderated
Now if I can get a TOS warning and a lock because I posted a thread calling you an ignorant prick, why shouldn't I get one for calling (enter alliance you hate the most here) a pack of cheaters and criminals?

and I don't google buy isk online



If you don't understand the difference, then I don't really care to try and explain it to you. I mean I could call you an arrogant fool, so conceded that he can't see past the funky shaped nose on his face, but that would not be the same as debating something whose effects are clearly visible on a basic google search.



Also WOW is that way right? ArrowArrow



These are the eve forums, and this is apparently what we do here. So yea, you're supporting pro-oppression and censorship. Nice... real nice. Especially since you will no doubt turn around and ***** about being censored should it suit you.


Am I on this guys side? because I have no idea what hes going on about...
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#93 - 2012-01-11 19:46:27 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:

clearly visible on a basic google search.


ok, I'm calling your bluff
please show us this site that directly ties an ongoing instance of RMT to a particular alliance and or person
in an indisputable fashion
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#94 - 2012-01-11 19:48:25 UTC
Can I buy a Russian bride in EVE?
Lord Wiggin
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2012-01-11 19:49:31 UTC
RMT'ing has been going on as long as Online gaming has. Why would anyone be surprised it's going on here? I would bet my 100 bil or so in play isk that it goes on daily in this game. Eve would probably be the easiest game ever to do that, since CCP provides a pipeline for it with Plex.
The problem is that their is absolutely no transparency in a Corp or Alliance, only a few people know the true extent of the corporations income, the rank and file have no access to see how their taxes are being spent. Oops

Of course the assumption is that the ISK is being funneled elsewhere. Why would you trust anyone to be honest in a game that gives scammers and thieves a huge advantage. Cool

Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#96 - 2012-01-11 19:58:57 UTC
Morganta wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:

clearly visible on a basic google search.


ok, I'm calling your bluff
please show us this site that directly ties an ongoing instance of RMT to a particular alliance and or person
in an indisputable fashion



Not playing word games with you bra, go bait someone else with your failing rationalization. This thread is about whether or not it is over exaggerated. In google, you can see clearly how many sites there are... thus it is proof positive that plenty of folks in said alliances are doing it.



You are also supporting more forum censorship, which is equally as craptacular as far as "personal opinions" go.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]

Morganta
The Greater Goon
#97 - 2012-01-11 20:02:12 UTC
Born Again Gallente wrote:
THIS THREAD IS FULL OF VILLAINY!

Oh, and I have the best Harvard lawyers on retainer you filthy sheep-shagging red-coats, so don't even think about suing!

(Also, I heard midget mafia is an rmt racket)

(and they wear ladies pantaloons)

(I assume you call them pantaloons)

(m8m8m8)


Harvard law is a joke
sheep-shagging is an art form
my ancestors were rabid Long Island Tories during the revolutionary war (one great great great great cousin even plotted to kill Washington)
you can hear whatever you want
yes I do wear pantaloons
yes we call them pantaloons
yes, we m8 frequently
Morganta
The Greater Goon
#98 - 2012-01-11 20:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Morganta
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Morganta wrote:
Eternum Praetorian wrote:

clearly visible on a basic google search.


ok, I'm calling your bluff
please show us this site that directly ties an ongoing instance of RMT to a particular alliance and or person
in an indisputable fashion



Not playing word games with you bra, go bait someone else with your failing rationalization. This thread is about whether or not it is over exaggerated. In google, you can see clearly how many sites there are... thus it is proof positive that plenty of folks in said alliances are doing it.



You are also supporting more forum censorship, which is equally as craptacular as far as "personal opinions" go.


way to avoid the issue
of course there are gold farmers in eve
I'm still waiting for this miraculous proof that it's being done by alliance X

its like saying all Germans are national socialists because some were
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#99 - 2012-01-11 20:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Nice try baby, but still not playing Blink



Go put words into some else's mouth.

[center]The EVE Gateway Blog[/center] [center]One Of EVE Online's Ultimate Resources[/center]

Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2012-01-11 20:20:36 UTC
Anyone who thinks RMT/botting is sec-specific is an idiot.