These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

How to make the Mackinaw a hybrid between the Skiff and the Hulk
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#1 - 2016-02-23 12:01:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
o/

I'll be talking here about the Mackinaw attributes, and only regarding rats defenses, so nothing about mining gameplay or PVP or giving new ability or whatsoever. I need some opinions about it before posting a solid proposition in the player features and ideas sub-forum.

First, I would like to know if some people consider it as myself as a viable solo mining, and by that I mean with boosts but without any support on the grid the ship mines in.

And second, do you think being in general forced to rely on a complex shield booster in nullsec (don't know about using it in WH) is a "normal" thing ? or could the ship have a little love in this regard to make it able to use a medium booster II, for let's say between 5 to 10 min or more with an enduring meta module ? I know using these complex modules can be quite common and their price is not that much high, but having no real other way than that is very rare in the game as far as I know.

I'm thinking here about either giving it a just enough better capacitor for that, or a bonus to the capacitor consumption of active shield module. Giving the ship a bonus for the shield amount repaired to make a small booster enough could be a thing, but this would make it more tanky and that is not something correct, since there is the Skiff for the more tank choice.

EDIT : For now, I'm coming up with these bonuses, that could make the mackinaw a hybrid between the skiff and the hulk, to make a valid choice for exhumer pilots :

Role bonus:
75% reduction in Medium Shield Booster CPU requirement
50% reduction in medium shield booster activation cost

WIth that the ship will be able to "have" a tank against rat and a little something against one tackler, still the ship could die easily to any PVP threat. I know the CPU requirement seems high but a medium shield booster asks for a LOT of cpu to a Mackinaw.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
#2 - 2016-02-23 12:29:01 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
I'll be talking here about the Mackinaw, and only regarding rats, so nothing about mining or PVP or giving new ability or whatsoever.


It's a bad idea to go ratting in a Mackinaw. That's my opinion.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#3 - 2016-02-23 15:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
I'll be talking here about the Mackinaw, and only regarding rats, so nothing about mining or PVP or giving new ability or whatsoever.


It's a bad idea to go ratting in a Mackinaw. That's my opinion.



Hum, I think I'll edit the thread to make it more clear to everyone.

Edit : done

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Huttan Funaila
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-02-23 19:39:40 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:

First, I would like to know if some people consider it as myself as a viable solo mining, and by that I mean with boosts but without any support on the grid the ship mines in.

The Mackinaw does not have the tank to handle nullsec rats when solo mining. Stick to Procurer/Skiff if solo. Generally if a rat has a bounty over 1M isk, 5x T2 drones aren't going to take it out (I don't have maxed drone skills).
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#5 - 2016-02-24 14:14:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
Huttan Funaila wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:

First, I would like to know if some people consider it as myself as a viable solo mining, and by that I mean with boosts but without any support on the grid the ship mines in.

The Mackinaw does not have the tank to handle nullsec rats when solo mining. Stick to Procurer/Skiff if solo. Generally if a rat has a bounty over 1M isk, 5x T2 drones aren't going to take it out (I don't have maxed drone skills).


Well that's one opinion, T2 drones can take the rats down, with very good skills yes, but they can. I've been scratching my head on my favorite ship because it sits in between two places for now. I mean, if big rats or chances of ganker => skiff, and if in a safe place or support => hulk. Plus, both the skiff and hulk have two convenient bonuses to them, the small one having a excellent passive tank and drones bonuses (bay, damage and hp), the big one having a bonus in yield and the range (both amplified by boosts). While the mackinaw only has the bigger bay, the yield being only marginally better than the skiff, while tthe mack have a small drone bay and a not good enough tank to justify choosing him over a skiff or a hulk depending on the situation.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#6 - 2016-02-25 23:42:15 UTC
I've come up with numbers in the first post, if anyone has a better idea to give the Mackinaw a defense bonus let me know. I'll think about it a little more and post it in the suggestion and idea forum. A idea could be to give the Mack a bonus for a passive tank (some hp) but I prefer something different to diversify the 3 exhumers.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Paranoid Loyd
#7 - 2016-02-25 23:45:33 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
I've been scratching my head on my favorite ship because it sits in between two places for now.
This is how it is suppossed to be, that means they are well balanced. Your changes unbalance them.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#8 - 2016-02-26 10:52:31 UTC
Paranoid Loyd wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
I've been scratching my head on my favorite ship because it sits in between two places for now.
This is how it is suppossed to be, that means they are well balanced. Your changes unbalance them.


Now that I read that sentence again, I notice the misunderstunding (english is not my native language). What I meant by that is that the mackinaw is not really in between the Skiff and the Hulk now, because it lacks a part of the defenses abilities of the skiff. It just have a better ore hold and that's it, but I think his middle position between the exhumers should give him a part of each other exhumer, like it already does have for the mining bonus under the form of a bigger ore hold, the only thing missing would be a light bonus to defenses like my proposition or maybe instead a drone bonus inferior to the skiff.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Paranoid Loyd
#9 - 2016-02-26 14:40:05 UTC
I dont misunderstand, I understand perfectly. You dont seem to understand they want you to make a choice. You are proposing changes that make the choice obvious, that is bad.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#10 - 2016-02-26 16:37:09 UTC
Right tools for the right job / location.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2016-02-26 16:44:22 UTC
Mining Barges and Exhumers are meant to mine well, not battle or defend themselves very well (with the sole exception of the Skiff and it's t1 variant)

If you want something that defends itself well while mining "alright", I recommend you using a Rokh or Apocalypse like they did in the old days.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#12 - 2016-02-26 16:57:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiddoomer
The problem that I see now is that the Mackinaw is just a bad choice wherever it's used.

In highsec, the rats dont pose a threat to the Hulk, and the Skiff make gankers dont even bother with it, while the mackinaw doesnt have a advantage over the hulk in yield and is as much squishy as him to gankers.

In nullsec, the hulk need to be in fleet (enough other miners at least) to have a defense (this is fine and balanced), and the skiff can mine on his own and even kill one frigate or two without difficulty. While the Mack struggles or cant even tank the rats and will be replaced by a Hulk with a hauler or a enormous freight container if in mining fleet.

About the bigger ore hold, it can be diverted by using a enormous freight container (even miners in skiff and proc do that). The mack just seems to be a bad choice everywhere to me now no matter the circunstances.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#13 - 2016-02-26 18:27:02 UTC
No its perfect for what its designed for. In safe systems you can semiafk/ afk mine. Its used for this all over high sec if you find somewhere quiet and off the beaten path and in any bit of null where you don't get much traffic. Its big ore hold means it needs very little attention.

Will gank for food
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#14 - 2016-02-26 18:36:49 UTC
Tarojan wrote:
No its perfect for what its designed for. In safe systems you can semiafk/ afk mine. Its used for this all over high sec if you find somewhere quiet and off the beaten path and in any bit of null where you don't get much traffic. Its big ore hold means it needs very little attention.


Is being able to AFK mine in highsec island or off the beaten path really a bonus ? and Nullsec no it struggles tanking rats. I know using a Hulk with a enromous freight container asks for little micromanagement to move the ore constantly, but the yield and the range are clearly better than using a mack.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#15 - 2016-02-26 18:41:55 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Tarojan wrote:
No its perfect for what its designed for. In safe systems you can semiafk/ afk mine. Its used for this all over high sec if you find somewhere quiet and off the beaten path and in any bit of null where you don't get much traffic. Its big ore hold means it needs very little attention.


Is being able to AFK mine in highsec island or off the beaten path really a bonus ? and Nullsec no it struggles tanking rats. I know using a Hulk with a enromous freight container asks for little micromanagement to move the ore constantly, but the yield and the range are clearly better than using a mack.


VOV its what its used for. Set the ret/mack on the biggest rock then come back in 30 mins.

Will gank for food
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#16 - 2016-02-26 18:50:04 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:


What I meant by that is that the mackinaw is not really in between the Skiff and the Hulk now, because it lacks a part of the defenses abilities of the skiff. It just have a better ore hold and that's it,



The Mackinaw is not supposed to be "in between" the Skiff and the Hulk. Each ship is specialized for a specific use-case. "Tiered" T2 ships is the old way of thinking that just resulted in, "If you're not using a Hulk, you're doing it wrong."

So. Working as intended.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
#17 - 2016-02-26 19:36:06 UTC
retriver/mackinaw - you are AFK
procurer/skiff - you get tank
covetor/hulk - you get yeild
if you want all together (AFK, tank, yield, ore hold) mine in carrier
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#18 - 2016-02-26 19:47:56 UTC
Uriam Khanid wrote:
retriver/mackinaw - you are AFK
procurer/skiff - you get tank
covetor/hulk - you get yeild
if you want all together (AFK, tank, yield, ore hold) mine in carrier



But that's the problem, It CANT afk in nullsec, it dies to rat, thats what I want to change, just make it able to afk mine in null, because thats the only one on the three ships that cant do its job there, the hulk doesnt have to tank because its supposed to be not alone.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2016-02-26 20:49:07 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
[......................

But that's the problem, It CANT afk in nullsec, it dies to rat, thats what I want to change, just make it able to afk mine in null, because thats the only one on the three ships that cant do its job there, the hulk doesnt have to tank because its supposed to be not alone.


Tested this myself only a couple of weeks ago....

And yes, a Mackinaw - alone - can indeed mine happily in Null and tank the rats. However, what it can't do is kill the rats very quickly at all (3 warps in and out 'full' before al the rats from a reinforced spawn were killed).

An identical tank can be fitted to the Skiff however - and is therefore even stronger - but the Skiff's drone bonus will mean the rats can be dealt with handily. The downside is the smaller Ore bay.

The two ships (not dealing with Ore bays and warping in and out to the Compression Array/Rorq') otherwise mine identical amounts.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#20 - 2016-02-26 20:55:02 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Kiddoomer wrote:
[......................

But that's the problem, It CANT afk in nullsec, it dies to rat, thats what I want to change, just make it able to afk mine in null, because thats the only one on the three ships that cant do its job there, the hulk doesnt have to tank because its supposed to be not alone.


Tested this myself only a couple of weeks ago....

And yes, a Mackinaw - alone - can indeed mine happily in Null and tank the rats. However, what it can't do is kill the rats very quickly at all (3 warps in and out 'full' before al the rats from a reinforced spawn were killed).

An identical tank can be fitted to the Skiff however - and is therefore even stronger - but the Skiff's drone bonus will mean the rats can be dealt with handily. The downside is the smaller Ore bay.

The two ships (not dealing with Ore bays and warping in and out to the Compression Array/Rorq') otherwise mine identical amounts.


Hum, do you mind if I ask you in which space you mine ? Because in mine in sansha space, which the exhumers have the worst resistances against ( and i have exhumer to V), to survive most of the rats I need 2 resistances modules, one medium pithum c-type shield booster and one EM rig and i have to warp out against the bigger packs (two above 1M bounty BS).

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
12Next page