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What is the best scout/tackler? CovOps? Cepter?

Author
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-02-26 04:27:41 UTC
As the title states, I'm trying to make a scout, tackle, and scan ship. Want to be Minmitar, unless there is a really strong reason not to.

Looking at:
Claw
Stiletto
Cheetah

or even
Hound
Loki
Svipul
but probably not.

If someone could tell me what the absolute best is, or give me a comparative analysis, that would be great!
Dato Koppla
Balls Deep Inc.
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#2 - 2016-02-26 05:40:42 UTC
If you're in null you pretty much need a ceptor since even though you'll have ****** scanning ability since CovOps would get stuck in bubbles and have to decloak and burn to gates or out of bubbles which renders the covops cloak moot in the first place and also makes your scout slow.

If bubbles aren't a concern then it's a simple question of preference, do you want better scanning ability but worse speed and tackling ability? or worse scanning ability for better speed and better tackling ability.

I wouldn't really go for a bomber since it's slow and doesn't really have anything that makes it a better scout, tackle or scan ship than ceptor/covops.

Personally I'd stick to a ceptor since they are fast and bubble immune and can hold stuff down very well.
Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-02-26 06:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
Dato Koppla wrote:
If you're in null you pretty much need a ceptor since even though you'll have ****** scanning ability since CovOps would get stuck in bubbles and have to decloak and burn to gates or out of bubbles which renders the covops cloak moot in the first place and also makes your scout slow.

If bubbles aren't a concern then it's a simple question of preference, do you want better scanning ability but worse speed and tackling ability? or worse scanning ability for better speed and better tackling ability.

I wouldn't really go for a bomber since it's slow and doesn't really have anything that makes it a better scout, tackle or scan ship than ceptor/covops.

Personally I'd stick to a ceptor since they are fast and bubble immune and can hold stuff down very well.


That's kind of what I was thinking, but what if I put some core stabilizers on the CovOps?

Or what about Loki? It has the interdictor immunity and the cloaks, but it is (I think) rather slow. But it's also bigger and has some combat capabilities.

Also, I really hope they give Cepters the same treatment they gave Caps with EWAR resistance instead of immunities.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#4 - 2016-02-26 07:48:50 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
That's kind of what I was thinking, but what if I put some core stabilizers on the CovOps?


bad idea. the gimping of your scan res isn't worth it. besides, you'll need a ton of CPU to cram an expanded probe launcher on there.

Ligraph wrote:
Or what about Loki? It has the interdictor immunity and the cloaks, but it is (I think) rather slow. But it's also bigger and has some combat capabilities.


how about a covops, nulli, tackle Proteus? a tool of choice for BLOPS gangs everywhere.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-02-26 18:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
how about a covops, nulli, tackle Proteus? a tool of choice for BLOPS gangs everywhere.


That would serve the same purpose. Why Proteus over Loki? Is there a "top" Strategic Cruiser?
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#6 - 2016-02-26 20:44:03 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
Mephiztopheleze wrote:
how about a covops, nulli, tackle Proteus? a tool of choice for BLOPS gangs everywhere.


...Is there a "top" Strategic Cruiser?


No, there isn't, they are just different.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-02-26 22:10:07 UTC
Ok, so how would something like this work?
[Loki Stealth+Tackle]
Co-Processor II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

50MN Digital Booster Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
'Delineative' Warp Scrambler
Caldari Navy Medium Shield Booster
Medium Shield Extender II

Expanded Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I
Republic Fleet 280mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP S
Republic Fleet 280mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP S
Republic Fleet 280mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP S
Republic Fleet 280mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP S
Covert Cynosural Field Generator I
'Smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier

elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#8 - 2016-02-26 23:50:57 UTC
Ligraph wrote:
Ok, so how would something like this work?
[Loki Stealth+Tackle]
Co-Processor II
Gyrostabilizer II
Damage Control II

50MN Digital Booster Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
'Delineative' Warp Scrambler
Caldari Navy Medium Shield Booster
Medium Shield Extender II

Expanded Probe Launcher II, Core Scanner Probe I
Republic Fleet 280mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP S
Republic Fleet 280mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP S
Republic Fleet 280mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP S
Republic Fleet 280mm Howitzer Artillery, EMP S
Covert Cynosural Field Generator I
'Smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Loki Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Loki Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network
Loki Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Loki Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Loki Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier



Go forth and try -> SiSi

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever

W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#9 - 2016-02-27 13:44:17 UTC
Combat recons are surpisingly strong in lowsec for that sort of thing, especially if you hunt people doing deds, all cloakies and ceptors show up on scan, so if they are smart they spam dscan and see any of those within 1 au they bail out, combat recons can get you a kill vs those.

But yeah, generally speaking ceptors are the best tacklers/scouts.
Mysa
EVIL PLANKTON
#10 - 2016-02-27 14:30:32 UTC
for null

Damage Control II
Navy Micro Auxiliary Power Core
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor
'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I
Small Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 150

Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Arbalest Compact Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Small Processor Overclocking Unit II

Sisters Core Scanner Probe x16
Sisters Combat Scanner Probe x16
Caldari Navy Mjolnir Light Missile x200
Navy Cap Booster 150 x25
Nanite Repair Paste x80

For luls tackle
RuleoftheBone
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-02-28 03:32:49 UTC
Hello OP,

You need to define "what" you are scouting for AND trying to catch. Are you moving fast (Inty/AF/Dessie fleet)? Slower (cruiser+)? Mission Runners, anom whores, randoms on gates?

Having done the above for years might I suggest:

Cheetah-Cloak/Probes/Speed mods and here is the critical part.......long point and a damp with scan res scripting. If you are tackling anything small with a Cheetah generally you are asking for a rather quick and pointless doom....industrial stuff being the exception. On the other hand snaring the average BC/BS with long point and scan res gives you loads of time for your pals to arrive and take over.

Stiletto-Best fleet inty in game (Crow a strong second). Speed mods to taste long point (can do two if you have excellent skills) and fly loops around bigger targets. Long point+painter is fun.....long paint plus little shield buffer is helpful.

Another alternative NOT mentioned in thread is the awesome Interdictor. Fast, furious, bubbles....everyone in your fleet will appreciate you (until they lose pods to your bubbles...**** happens Lol).

Pro scouts:

-Don't fuss about DPS. Whatever your whoremod gets you on the mail.
-Don't really care about getting on the KM. Thats secondary to being the eyes of the fleet.
-Can fly manual.
-Can fly and pin targets creatively.
-Move FAST.
-Scan and probe fast.

For every covops kill I have ever been on....there are probably 5x that many where I don't appear on the mail....but you bet your boots I was there Pirate.

I was lucky and learned the dark arts of EvE covops and scouting from Dr Drac way WAY back in the day. Find someone who can show you how and have fun!



Ligraph
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2016-02-28 06:00:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ligraph
RuleoftheBone wrote:
Hello OP,

You need to define "what" you are scouting for AND trying to catch. Are you moving fast (Inty/AF/Dessie fleet)? Slower (cruiser+)? Mission Runners, anom whores, randoms on gates?

Having done the above for years might I suggest:

Cheetah-Cloak/Probes/Speed mods and here is the critical part.......long point and a damp with scan res scripting. If you are tackling anything small with a Cheetah generally you are asking for a rather quick and pointless doom....industrial stuff being the exception. On the other hand snaring the average BC/BS with long point and scan res gives you loads of time for your pals to arrive and take over.

Stiletto-Best fleet inty in game (Crow a strong second). Speed mods to taste long point (can do two if you have excellent skills) and fly loops around bigger targets. Long point+painter is fun.....long paint plus little shield buffer is helpful.

Another alternative NOT mentioned in thread is the awesome Interdictor. Fast, furious, bubbles....everyone in your fleet will appreciate you (until they lose pods to your bubbles...**** happens Lol).

Pro scouts:

-Don't fuss about DPS. Whatever your whoremod gets you on the mail.
-Don't really care about getting on the KM. Thats secondary to being the eyes of the fleet.
-Can fly manual.
-Can fly and pin targets creatively.
-Move FAST.
-Scan and probe fast.

For every covops kill I have ever been on....there are probably 5x that many where I don't appear on the mail....but you bet your boots I was there Pirate.

I was lucky and learned the dark arts of EvE covops and scouting from Dr Drac way WAY back in the day. Find someone who can show you how and have fun!





Thanks, that helps. As for the use, The t3 SC was more of a large fleet (caps) scout and general covert intel gather, mostly cause of interdiction nullifier AND stealth. Speed was not a consideration for it, more of a prolonged spy/intel ship, to find targets, mark them, and bring in the fleet.

For fast scouts, would you recommend covops over a cepter or visa versa? Seems like both have their benefits, I like cloakies though, so... And if you have a cepter fast-scout a system and then have a covops come in for better intel if it looks safeish, that might work even better.

And the covops can fit a covert cyno. Now I'm seriously leaning CovOps. Is there any way other than having a cepter pre-scout to avoid bubbles?
Arla Sarain
#13 - 2016-02-28 12:51:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Ligraph wrote:
[quote=RuleoftheBone]
And the covops can fit a covert cyno. Now I'm seriously leaning CovOps. Is there any way other than having a cepter pre-scout to avoid bubbles?

Stacking two Engine Thermal Rigs II on a Cheetah with triple nanos allows it to move around 60-70km in a single overheated propmod cycle starting from 0m/s immediately after cloaking.
It's still going to take longer than a ceptor, but you can definitely get out of bubble fields without decloaking again.

That being said MWD Cheetah have poor cap levels and if you Warp Drive skills aren't good you will typically run out of Capacitor during long warps.

Also Warp Speed rigs aren't too great. I'm not sure if the Warp Speed acceleration is the same as subwarp, but it takes around 5-10s to reach max Warp Speed and then another 5-10s to decelerate. You only reach max warp speed on very long warps and it will mostly only matter during these. You might want to consider a T1 Warp Optimisation rig to reduce the cap cost if your skills are poor.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#14 - 2016-02-28 14:34:54 UTC
[Sabre, fuk yo carrier]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II

Prototype Cloaking Device I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
Interdiction Sphere Launcher I,Warp Disrupt Probe

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#15 - 2016-02-28 21:36:38 UTC
Lucy Callagan wrote:
[Sabre, fuk yo carrier]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II

Prototype Cloaking Device I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
Interdiction Sphere Launcher I,Warp Disrupt Probe

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II


That a dictor, it does dictor things. It doesnt really do well as tackle or as a scout.
Lucy Callagan
Goryn Clade
#16 - 2016-02-28 22:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucy Callagan
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Lucy Callagan wrote:
[Sabre, fuk yo carrier]
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Medium Shield Extender II
Medium Shield Extender II
Warp Scrambler II

Prototype Cloaking Device I
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
125mm Gatling AutoCannon II,Barrage S
Interdiction Sphere Launcher I,Warp Disrupt Probe

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II


That a dictor, it does dictor things. It doesnt really do well as tackle or as a scout.


it does well enough to hunt carriers/othershit/sometimessuper
RuleoftheBone
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2016-02-29 03:56:10 UTC  |  Edited by: RuleoftheBone
Ligraph wrote:


For fast scouts, would you recommend covops over a cepter or visa versa? Seems like both have their benefits, I like cloakies though, so... And if you have a cepter fast-scout a system and then have a covops come in for better intel if it looks safeish, that might work even better.


You have answered your own question Lol.

If you like cloaks....fly a covops and practice mwd-cloak tricks and manual piloting.
I cannot remember ever losing a covops to running gates ahead of a gang.

The way I learned to scout was inty followed by covops. Less stuff to think about with an inty (probing, cloaking, blah blah) so you can concentrate on just locating targets for your pals.

Don't ever be risk adverse....EvE rewards those who can flip the switch into aggressive violent rapid action mode. Be the aggressor and 99/100 times you will win...or at least dictate...the engagement.

Here is a sample of how it works from last night:

-I nipped into some crappy backwater Tenerifis space via WH.
-Spotted a Mach and had him pinned to deadspace within a couple AU of a planet.
-Got backup and gave our covops dude a precise location to drop combats (I was in a bomber...sue me).
-Covops got the hit first try. Sadly the Mach ran (~local~) but we bagged his nitiwit pal in a Proteus instead.

tl; dr.......practice baby practice. There have never been many good scouts in Eve. You will always have a quality home if you get good Cool

**edit**Contrary to another opinion I quite happily scout in a dictor. But don't try it until you have inty/covops down pat....dictors are a different ball game.
Tung Yoggi
University of Caille
#18 - 2016-02-29 17:38:36 UTC
Stiletto for null, or even low when you need to cover a lot of distance.

Loki (cloak/probe) for WH mostly, or anything that requires both scanning and tackling, and some hard tanking as well.

Cheetah for mostly everywhere if you don't really need to tackle (awful survivability). Does well as eyes (more static way of scouting) or rear scout.

Buy all three, and use the best tool for your job, whatever it is.
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
#19 - 2016-03-03 15:29:56 UTC
As with all things, Tengu. Big smile

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but a Tengu can be fit for Hunter Killer Cloaky Scouty role and behaves like a tanky, nullified Cov Ops frigate. The stupid things align pretty easily at sub 4 seconds (so 4 ticks and you're off) all while ignoring bubbles and possessing a pretty substantial tank. Sure it costs you 600 or 700 mil and a skill injector worth of SP when you lose it, but it's one crazy good ship to carry a cov cyno around.

Another b4tsh1t crazy idea is the hull-tanked prospect.

Quality Assurance Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts

helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2016-03-06 11:57:07 UTC
another option is an astero. (for wormhole pvp scouting)

It can probe, tackle and hold its target until support arrives. Its fast, has good probe strength and can get away from most things if cornered

Only downside is you cant fit an expaneded launcher unless you severely gimp the rest of the ship.

"...ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new.... thats where eve is placed... not in cave."  | zoonr-Korsairs |

Meanwhile Citadel release issues: "tried to bug report this and the bug report is bugged as well" | Rafeau |

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