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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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CCP wants to change the Watchlist feature ...

Author
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#101 - 2016-02-23 10:07:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaldi Tsukaya
I am indy, so watchlisting is good defensive intel for me and my corpmates.

I'm not against the change entirely, I just don't like unilateral nerfs like this. The middleground is a better option until the new structures can be brought online.

I like the delayed-notification idea. Also like the binary online/offline option with locator agents. Extend this to a delayed local too.

There are more than "2 sides" in this debate. I hope CCP sees this.

Edit.

You might also have a "tag" option if you can get ongrid with someone. Sort of like a covert 'homing beacon' that stays active until they go offline (or until DT). Sort of a temporary watchlist.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#102 - 2016-02-23 10:08:53 UTC
you know you have a point when your usual prey item is agreeing with you ...
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#103 - 2016-02-23 10:12:26 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
you know you have a point when your usual prey item is agreeing with you ...


I vote for more content
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#104 - 2016-02-23 10:15:37 UTC
You might also tie this into the (dysfunctional) bounty system too. For a price (bounty) I get a temporary watchlist on someone.

Good, because it is an isk sink, and also because the 'target' gets an immediate notification that they are being watched.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#105 - 2016-02-23 13:10:53 UTC
The thing is the only side whose opinions CCP counts are those of supercap pilots. They literally don't care what anyone else thinks because they don't actually process feedback and the CSM are a gigantic pile of shills who congratulate them for literally anything.
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
#106 - 2016-02-23 13:25:24 UTC
Good riddance. The mechanics behind watchlisting someone were stupid and made no sense.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#107 - 2016-02-23 13:42:14 UTC
Zepheros Naeonis wrote:
Good riddance. The mechanics behind watchlisting someone were stupid and made no sense.



They made every bit as much sense as logging out mate.

At some point we need to remember it's a game and reasonable allowances should be made.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#108 - 2016-02-23 15:55:55 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:


I'm really curious though, as a compromise how do people feel about the notion of locators refusing to run on offline players?


Make them run with both a shorter delay and a refund with the result message telling you the target cannot be found. Hell I could see level 3 give last "seen" region and 4 last seen constellation for example since the guy still do some research with the shorter delay running.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#109 - 2016-02-23 16:19:50 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:


I'm really curious though, as a compromise how do people feel about the notion of locators refusing to run on offline players?


Make them run with both a shorter delay and a refund with the result message telling you the target cannot be found. Hell I could see level 3 give last "seen" region and 4 last seen constellation for example since the guy still do some research with the shorter delay running.


No refunds. That poor agent is trying to run a legit business.
soulkayn hooligan
Eureka holding
#110 - 2016-02-24 17:03:47 UTC
This idea is very bad because it kills outright the pvp in wh I would suggest instead of deleted in the local 0.0 same effect but no gene caused for other area of the game
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#111 - 2016-02-24 17:22:51 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
IIRC, I heard that with CREST allowing you to fiddle with your contacts, the conclusion is going to be a big list of every supercap pilot in EVE you can watchlist with one click.

Bit much imo.


Confirmed. With the CREST watch list change, I can program a google-script to scrape the name and characterID of every supercap pilot in the game (or any other category a killboard provides) and input them into my watchlist without ever pressing a button. It can autonomously review my watch list, compare it to recent kills and losses, and then add or remove them automatically as frequently as I think is necessary.

All without ever pressing a button.

As far as the watchlist change goes, I'm not sure if its good or bad. If you don't have the current watch list capability, its a bit harder to know when someone is logging in their super-cap fleet.

Some may argue that having this intel contributes to risk aversion. But lets behonest. If your alliance has 100 carriers, 100 dreads, 10 supers, and a couple titans, are you gonna log them in for an op when PL, Goons, etc (obvious examples) are deployed nearby and you cannot tell if their's are logged in? Probably not.

I don't support free intel tools. But people have shown that there are some pretty good uses for the watch list.

Meanwhile Immediate-mode local i still a thing. Ask horde about their cloaky camping campaign in Fade. (I think CCP has something in store for us on that front though.)

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2016-02-24 21:15:17 UTC
More content is not only leaving the current system alone, but expanding it to include certain individual (assembled)ships. Ccp has shown they can track individual ships via killmarks.

There are many rare ships in the game, sometimes traded amongst players for extra PvP fun. With citadel's player watchlists become obsolete for supercaps, as the pilot can now teather the former space coffin and go gallivanting about in a different, should they feel so inclined. Meanwhile Joe blow injectorhead unteathers and moves the space coffin around or just safelogs.

This does not give highsec bumpers the shaft, nor tankers. Dead cheap ships mean that ship won't be tracked, and bumpers don't aquire killmarks so they can be repackaged and not tracked. This also promotes use of carriers and ship shipping ships(bowhead) for serious pvpers that like their epeen pasted on their favorite ships.

In short give watchlisting more options for both social and antisocial reasons.

Combat, craftiness and cunning with useful tools are eve hallmarks. Non consensual PvP likewise.



Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#113 - 2016-02-25 08:34:13 UTC
Organizations need to have players out there looking to get intel. Intel should not be delivered through NPC mechanics.

Needing to have players out there looking creates content that wouldn't be there if you could just use your watchlist. It creates more opportunity for Pvp and engages more players in the Corp or Alliance in intelligence operations.

The current watchlist reduces the opportunity for Pvp overall and allow for easy-mode intel gathering.

Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#114 - 2016-02-25 19:04:21 UTC
+1 to CCP - now, when are they going to fix local?

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.

Fyonia
Goatausorus Rex CO.
Roid Suckers
#115 - 2016-02-27 20:01:32 UTC
Yes.

Remove Watchlist, remove Local, remove Locator Agents.

More PvP for everyone.

That is all.
Atomeon
Unbound Reborn
WE FORM BL0B University
#116 - 2016-02-27 23:09:43 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Compromise:

You can only add someone to your personal/corp/alliance watchlist if you have their corpse.


Then to make it a bit more fair the corpse has a decay timer. Big smile
Inquisitor Tyr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2016-03-05 19:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Tyr
Removing the watch list notifications without an effective replacement system will reduce conflict and content. Consequences will be increased effectiveness of AFK cloaky campers, and fewer junior FCs stepping into larger FC roles.

AFK cloaky campers can be mitigated through a bit of research into who they represent. Hotdropers leave a trail of killmails that leads back to their bridging pilots. When watchlisted, you can accurately assess if the neutral pilot sitting in system for the past week is asleep. Removing the watch list notification will amplify AFK Cloaking, which is widely considered one of the most broken mechanics in the game.

Alliance level FCs utilize a large intel network to make them effective in large scale engagements. Eg: He/She will have scout alts watching the enemy staging systems and often have spys on the other side.

Aspiring junior and mid level FCs rarely have access to the same info. Some of this is due to the necessity of keeping your FC channels small for op-sec (and spam comment reduction). But with a bit of research, and trial by fire, junior FCs can eventually find out who the hostile titan pilot may be.

In sum, removing this bit of intel further compunds the problems that new FCs face as they try to build confidence in their abilities not just to themselves but, more importantly, to the people who may attend their fleet.

Reduced confidence in an FC leads to lower participation on his fleets. If your junior FC is constantly getting dropped on and dunked, people will stop going on his fleets. The spin off effect is that people will only want to attend fleets with their Main Alliance FC. Fewer junior FCs will have the chance to learn and grow into senior positions in circumstances where their enemy uses capitals regularly. Fewer FCs will lead to less fleets, more stand downs, more blue balled fleets, and less content overall.

I dont disagree that it would make some sense to remove the metagame aspect of the watch list; however, has an effective in game system been designed and implemented to replace this lost functionality ?
Inquisitor Tyr
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#118 - 2016-03-05 19:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Inquisitor Tyr
Fyonia wrote:
Yes.

Remove Watchlist, remove Local, remove Locator Agents.

More PvP for everyone.

That is all.


"More PVP" Cries the cyno alt pilot with zero kills.

Make sure to log in some more alt accounts and spam the thread to misrepresent the consensus.

https://zkillboard.com/corporation/98079395/
Monite Harajem
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#119 - 2016-03-05 20:14:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Monite Harajem
Before removing the watch list notification, CCP should make it so players can no longer cloak from server going online until next down time. Im not against removing the watchlist but other changes should be done before or at the same time.

Make it so cloaking drains cap and stops cap recharge when the cloaking device is being used(actively cloaking). Giving ships that are able to use the covert op cloaking longer cloaking timer then those using the other cloaking devices. This way theres a chance players can kill the camper if the player walks away to work or goes to bed. Its pretty stupid that you're able to do so anyways, sure makes content for some but stops content for a lot more then the 5-15 covert pilots that might jump in.

Make it so you can no longer make bookmarks while in warp, so many players cry about more PvP but every time they get a fair fight they hop between bookmarks they made while in warp to try and get away to find a fight they have the upper hand(Mining ship or hauler).

If a player logs off in null sec where they or their corp/alliance doesnt own and or having positive standings with those that hold sov, there should be a 60 second timer after the player logs off before the account fully logs out. That will create content for people to scan out, instead of sit at a gate waiting for a chicken to log back on.

To many other game mechanics are being abused for those that cry "Need more PvP" because it works in their favor, but I know if you change these things I covered you'll have a lot of little chickens showing their "true form of pvp". They want the watch list removed so you dont know if they logged off or slipped away.


Put an end to chickens in space already so the real PvP finally starts. You wouldnt be able to go into someones space looking for a fight then log off because you found more then you think you could handle, what happened to every turn has its risks?
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#120 - 2016-03-06 00:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalmon Aliatus
Speaking of the removal of local:

Can some CCP guy tell me the amount of traffic that is created by very active locals (Jita, Amarr, Dodi, etc.) ?
Sure, it is not much compared to all the ship data, but is still a steady amount of data send from one player to the server and then to the 1500 other people in local.

I would really enjoy a Jita without local chat Twisted