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Put Racial Back into EVE

Author
Anatole Papadopoulos
Manboobs in Space
#1 - 2012-01-11 16:59:10 UTC
Some time ago I decided that I wanted to play with drones more than I currently did – so aside from buffing my drone skills a little, the big question was should I train Gallente ships? But I realized I could get a decent drone bay with a Typhoon and fly drones immediately. This is a long way of saying that almost every race/ship can currently use almost every weapon system – and this is boring. If I want to put lasers on Minmatar, I can. If I want to put projectile on Caldari, I can. What’s the point when almost every race/ship can use almost every weapon system?

It would be so much more interesting (especially on the tactics level) if only one race could use a given type of weapon system, i.e. lasers can’t be put on anything but Amarr, projectiles only on Minmatar, missiles only on Caldari, and hybrids only on Gallente. Drones can be handled in a similar manner but slightly differently – Gallente are the only race with ‘large’ drone bays, other races are limited to drone bays with at most 5 drones and maybe also limited by drone size, i.e. only heavy drones on Battleships. Carriers and Super Carriers are a little tougher if you limit them to only Gallente – but this only means you give at least one of the races a specialized capital ship that can counter a carrier – whatz wrong with a very fast high accuracy projectile capital? And there’s no reason that all races should be able to counter a carrier/super-carrier – maybe only Amarr can, and only Minmatar can counter that Amarr specialized ship, and only Caldari can counter ….. I’m not trying to promote/advocate Gallente or drones – I can’t even fly Gallente. I am promoting the idea that each race have a very distinctive superior in a given type of weapon system. Maybe Amarr BS need to be able to lauch bombs and everyone else is limited to frigates, maybe Minmatar BS need to be able to do EW while the others can’t or can only do it poorly.

I grant you that this would make a radical change in game-play, but the idea is to make each race much more specialized in terms of offensive weapons, and to counter one race you need to fly a specific other race, or to significantly complement a race you need to fly a specific third race. This is not Factional Warfare but it is more Role Playing – and if you’re not role-playing why have more than one race?

But I can hear the howls of protest now …. but I’ve trained so much that I wouldn’t be able use anymore … but there’s no reason to do that … but, but, but. There’s always a reason to not do something, but I think there’s a darn good reason to make each race very distinctive.

So allow a one-time skill point reallocation. Got a boat-load of SP in ships for all 4 races but none of them are outstanding? Keep it that way it you want – or de-allocate some/all your SP and get instant-skill-point-allocation-learning for a very customized character in one or two races. Want to specialize in one particular type of game/role-play but don’t want to start from scratch to train frigate-to-battleship for a particular race to get there? One time de-allocate and reallocate your SP.

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2012-01-11 17:03:52 UTC
My opinion: racism is never cool, kids

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Roscada
We love Egg
#3 - 2012-01-11 17:04:07 UTC
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
blah blah blah

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


Put lasers on your typhoon and take it out for a fight. Come back and tell me again that the fitting restrictions you want aren't already in place.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#4 - 2012-01-11 17:05:41 UTC
Arti Baddon FTW

Life was good when people flew Crapdari. Tachyon, volley dmg was insane. Then came Winmatar
Anatole Papadopoulos
Manboobs in Space
#5 - 2012-01-11 17:07:13 UTC
I am NOT advocating racial prejudice or discrimination - I am advocating racial differences
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#6 - 2012-01-11 17:08:05 UTC
Ships have bonuses for the racial weapons already.

You can put lasers on a minmater ship and projectiles on amarr. They will however suck.
Sakurako Kimino
Eternal Darkness.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2012-01-11 17:08:20 UTC
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
Some time ago I decided that I wanted to play with drones more than I currently did – so aside from buffing my drone skills a little, the big question was should I train Gallente ships? But I realized I could get a decent drone bay with a Typhoon and fly drones immediately. This is a long way of saying that almost every race/ship can currently use almost every weapon system – and this is boring. If I want to put lasers on Minmatar, I can. If I want to put projectile on Caldari, I can. What’s the point when almost every race/ship can use almost every weapon system?

It would be so much more interesting (especially on the tactics level) if only one race could use a given type of weapon system, i.e. lasers can’t be put on anything but Amarr, projectiles only on Minmatar, missiles only on Caldari, and hybrids only on Gallente. Drones can be handled in a similar manner but slightly differently – Gallente are the only race with ‘large’ drone bays, other races are limited to drone bays with at most 5 drones and maybe also limited by drone size, i.e. only heavy drones on Battleships. Carriers and Super Carriers are a little tougher if you limit them to only Gallente – but this only means you give at least one of the races a specialized capital ship that can counter a carrier – whatz wrong with a very fast high accuracy projectile capital? And there’s no reason that all races should be able to counter a carrier/super-carrier – maybe only Amarr can, and only Minmatar can counter that Amarr specialized ship, and only Caldari can counter ….. I’m not trying to promote/advocate Gallente or drones – I can’t even fly Gallente. I am promoting the idea that each race have a very distinctive superior in a given type of weapon system. Maybe Amarr BS need to be able to lauch bombs and everyone else is limited to frigates, maybe Minmatar BS need to be able to do EW while the others can’t or can only do it poorly.

I grant you that this would make a radical change in game-play, but the idea is to make each race much more specialized in terms of offensive weapons, and to counter one race you need to fly a specific other race, or to significantly complement a race you need to fly a specific third race. This is not Factional Warfare but it is more Role Playing – and if you’re not role-playing why have more than one race?

But I can hear the howls of protest now …. but I’ve trained so much that I wouldn’t be able use anymore … but there’s no reason to do that … but, but, but. There’s always a reason to not do something, but I think there’s a darn good reason to make each race very distinctive.

So allow a one-time skill point reallocation. Got a boat-load of SP in ships for all 4 races but none of them are outstanding? Keep it that way it you want – or de-allocate some/all your SP and get instant-skill-point-allocation-learning for a very customized character in one or two races. Want to specialize in one particular type of game/role-play but don’t want to start from scratch to train frigate-to-battleship for a particular race to get there? One time de-allocate and reallocate your SP.

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


sandbox, ccp has given us tools to do most anything in game so why change that. also hybrid are down to 2 parts rails are caldari and blasters are gallente look up the invention list for this info.

also against reallocation of skill points you and i made our choises now we have to live with it

eve is about sin

Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#8 - 2012-01-11 17:09:24 UTC
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
I am NOT advocating racial prejudice or discrimination - I am advocating racial differences



Ok, sorry, you're not racist. You're merely racialist.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log

Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
Somethin Awfull Forums
#9 - 2012-01-11 17:12:28 UTC
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
I am NOT advocating racial prejudice or discrimination - I am advocating racial differences


If they had set up the original lore so it was 4 on 4 and not 2 on 2 this would have worked. Due to lore and strengths and weakness based on enemies that don't exsist we get to play mix and match or omni skill our chars. What most people end up doing.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-01-11 17:21:56 UTC
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
Some time ago I decided that I wanted to play with drones more than I currently did – so aside from buffing my drone skills a little, the big question was should I train Gallente ships? But I realized I could get a decent drone bay with a Typhoon and fly drones immediately. This is a long way of saying that almost every race/ship can currently use almost every weapon system – and this is boring. If I want to put lasers on Minmatar, I can. If I want to put projectile on Caldari, I can. What’s the point when almost every race/ship can use almost every weapon system?

It would be so much more interesting (especially on the tactics level) if only one race could use a given type of weapon system, i.e. lasers can’t be put on anything but Amarr, projectiles only on Minmatar, missiles only on Caldari, and hybrids only on Gallente. Drones can be handled in a similar manner but slightly differently – Gallente are the only race with ‘large’ drone bays, other races are limited to drone bays with at most 5 drones and maybe also limited by drone size, i.e. only heavy drones on Battleships. Carriers and Super Carriers are a little tougher if you limit them to only Gallente – but this only means you give at least one of the races a specialized capital ship that can counter a carrier – whatz wrong with a very fast high accuracy projectile capital? And there’s no reason that all races should be able to counter a carrier/super-carrier – maybe only Amarr can, and only Minmatar can counter that Amarr specialized ship, and only Caldari can counter ….. I’m not trying to promote/advocate Gallente or drones – I can’t even fly Gallente. I am promoting the idea that each race have a very distinctive superior in a given type of weapon system. Maybe Amarr BS need to be able to lauch bombs and everyone else is limited to frigates, maybe Minmatar BS need to be able to do EW while the others can’t or can only do it poorly.

I grant you that this would make a radical change in game-play, but the idea is to make each race much more specialized in terms of offensive weapons, and to counter one race you need to fly a specific other race, or to significantly complement a race you need to fly a specific third race. This is not Factional Warfare but it is more Role Playing – and if you’re not role-playing why have more than one race?

But I can hear the howls of protest now …. but I’ve trained so much that I wouldn’t be able use anymore … but there’s no reason to do that … but, but, but. There’s always a reason to not do something, but I think there’s a darn good reason to make each race very distinctive.

So allow a one-time skill point reallocation. Got a boat-load of SP in ships for all 4 races but none of them are outstanding? Keep it that way it you want – or de-allocate some/all your SP and get instant-skill-point-allocation-learning for a very customized character in one or two races. Want to specialize in one particular type of game/role-play but don’t want to start from scratch to train frigate-to-battleship for a particular race to get there? One time de-allocate and reallocate your SP.

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


No not really. I think the current system is much better and interesting and doesn't put so many pointless restrictions on the players or limitations on their enginuity. Roleplaying isn't determined by some silly class or race distinctions either. If your character values amarr purity for example, nothing is preventing you from only training amarr ships and fitting them acording to the amarr fleet doctrine. Forcing others to limit their roleplaying with your ideals is counter to what good roleplaying is all about. Your ship ideas generally seem to be ignoring many considerations as well and are therefore problematic to say the least. I think the races are quite distinctive as it is, although some specialized ship classes do resemble one another very much, but that is to be expected. They are meant to perform the same function, so some similarities is to be expected.

Also keep in mind, that too much specialization can lead to extinction. We have had various races been pushed in to obscurity because of shifts in the way the game has evolved and what tactics are used. If an entire race is too specialized, the risk of them becoming entirely obsolite is even greater. Considering a new player has no way of knowing any of this beforehand and it takes a long time to train an entire ship tree for a race, it seems like an even worse idea. You know this is a bad idea yourself and instead of seeing your idea as a crap one, you turn to increasingly bad ideas to cover for your failings. The current system is simply better for everyone and it doesn't have to rely on implementing other questionable ideas to work properly.

TL;DR : You're a racist.
Valei Khurelem
#11 - 2012-01-11 17:24:57 UTC
Roscada wrote:
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
blah blah blah

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


Put lasers on your typhoon and take it out for a fight. Come back and tell me again that the fitting restrictions you want aren't already in place.


This is amazing, I can see you put a huge amount of thought, common sense and critical thinking into this post.

"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP."   - CCP Ytterbium

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#12 - 2012-01-11 17:29:36 UTC
Roscada wrote:
Anatole Papadopoulos wrote:
blah blah blah

That’s my opinion, what’s yours?


Put lasers on your typhoon and take it out for a fight. Come back and tell me again that the fitting restrictions you want aren't already in place.


/emote is guilty of PVE laser-phoon :3

The Drake is a Lie

Rel'k Bloodlor
Guldan Age Stories
Federation Front Line
#13 - 2012-01-11 17:33:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
Because I can put taco sauce one my sushi that's why.
If your phoon can get the same DPS out of drones as a domi can then may be Ill buy your idea, but it can't so I wont.

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

Tannis Maya
7th Interval
#14 - 2012-01-11 17:33:51 UTC
Surely it would be a lot less interesting because you are creating a hard limit on the number of fitting permutations you can meet in the universe.

Your scheme would mean opponents would instantly know pretty much exactly how each other are fit and the outcome of engagements before combat begins.

All you would do is make the rock, paper, scissor nature of eve combat even more obvious.

no thanks.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#15 - 2012-01-11 17:36:02 UTC
Xercodo wrote:

/emote is guilty of PVE laser-phoon :3


You're guilt of fitting anything I think I still have the fitting for your combat Procurer.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Shiki Mikkyou
#16 - 2012-01-11 17:37:44 UTC
CCP, we need a Benetton ad in here, pronto!

All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain。

Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
#17 - 2012-01-11 17:43:48 UTC
I thought of this too, but I was thinking a little further. Caldari can only pilot Caldari ships, Amarr only Amarr ships, etc etc etc...

Little too late for both my argument and yours, move on...
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#18 - 2012-01-11 17:56:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Others have mentioned: ~Ship bonuses~ ~Fitting requirements~

I will echo the same feeling. The Typhoon is not a drone boat by any meaning of the words "Drone Boat". It will get outperformed by a Dominix every time. Lasers on Minmatar ships don't work because of the fitting/capacitor requirements. Autocannons on Caldari ships suck because Caldari ships are slow as hell. Sure, some weird things can actually work, but that's called creative fitting, and adds a very nice flavor of "what the hell did that Myrmidon fire lasers at me" to PvP.

OP needs to stop complaining, learn to fit ships, and post stuff like this in F&I, not GD.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-01-11 17:59:28 UTC
Removes the possibility of variety, creativity, and decision-making just to reinforce a system that effectively already exists.

-1.
My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-01-11 17:59:29 UTC
OP:

you say its boring. It hink being able to train any skill on any character, and fit any weapon system on any ship (as long as the PG and CPU hold) is part of the FUN!



opinions are like assholes...

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread

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