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If a Sabik were to hold high office, I would look forward to......?
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Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#21 - 2016-02-20 02:35:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Lunarisse Aspenstar
[Double Post - Delete]
Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2016-02-20 02:36:32 UTC
Utari Onzo wrote:
No.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#23 - 2016-02-20 02:38:38 UTC
No. Also, I am now running counter to you. There will be no media campaign or campaign promises. I measly intend to show up randomly throughout your campaign and steal your votes.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#24 - 2016-02-20 17:01:59 UTC
I find it frustrating, every time I want to dislike Utari for being part of a system that oppresses my people, he still proves so darn likeable.
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#25 - 2016-02-20 20:52:16 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
I find it frustrating, every time I want to dislike Utari for being part of a system that oppresses my people, he still proves so darn likeable.



Gee, maybe we should stop hating people based on where they live and hate them for their actions?

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
Nauplius
Hoi Andrapodistai
#26 - 2016-02-21 13:56:00 UTC
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
I find it frustrating, every time I want to dislike Utari for being part of a system that oppresses my people, he still proves so darn likeable.



Gee, maybe we should stop hating people based on where they live and hate them for their actions?


Actions are irrelevant. What is the difference between a Minmatar pirate who joins the Angel Cartel and leaves a body count of thousands behind him, and a kindly Minmatar old lady who feeds the hungry, cures the sick, and clothes the poor?

Nothing. They are both filthy Minmatar subhumans who abide under the wrath of God, and in Hell they will burn for all eternity.
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#27 - 2016-02-21 14:11:32 UTC
Nauplius wrote:
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
I find it frustrating, every time I want to dislike Utari for being part of a system that oppresses my people, he still proves so darn likeable.



Gee, maybe we should stop hating people based on where they live and hate them for their actions?


Actions are irrelevant. What is the difference between a Minmatar pirate who joins the Angel Cartel and leaves a body count of thousands behind him, and a kindly Minmatar old lady who feeds the hungry, cures the sick, and clothes the poor?

Nothing. They are both filthy Minmatar subhumans who abide under the wrath of God, and in Hell they will burn for all eternity.



And you're a traitor to your King who needs to be dragged back to Khanid in chains. What's your point? I have a ticket to Heaven. You have a a path to oblivion. And really, all you have are words. Kill a baseliner, kill a million baseliners and you still can't do a thing to we who fly the stars.

Give it a rest. You're trying way too hard.

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#28 - 2016-02-21 16:13:07 UTC
Sinti Vailatti wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
I find it frustrating, every time I want to dislike Utari for being part of a system that oppresses my people, he still proves so darn likeable.



Gee, maybe we should stop hating people based on where they live and hate them for their actions?


He made a choice to be part of that system and uses his actions to support those whose actions oppress my people. It has nothing to do with hate or geography, I don't hate Utari he was always kind to me and my boyfriend when things were very tough. Him being a good person doesn't excuse his actions supporting those who oppress my people however. For that matter I support an organization via my own actions that does horrid things to Amarrians, even if I don't condone those actions personally so I understand it is more complicated than allligence making someone evil.
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#29 - 2016-02-21 16:38:16 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
He made a choice to be part of that system and uses his actions to support those whose actions oppress my people. It has nothing to do with hate or geography, I don't hate Utari he was always kind to me and my boyfriend when things were very tough. Him being a good person doesn't excuse his actions supporting those who oppress my people however. For that matter I support an organization via my own actions that does horrid things to Amarrians, even if I don't condone those actions personally so I understand it is more complicated than allligence making someone evil.



The systems that "oppress our people" aren't really as oppressive as you've been taught. People like Utari are the norm, not the exception. I think he'd make a great Holder. He'd make sure his people were fed and happy and well-educated. Can you say the same about the current system in the Republic? I've seen lots of people who were "freed" languishing on stations and colonies with very little hope and no access to worship freely. So who is oppressing whom?

Maybe people in the Republic need to be working on improving the Republic before coming over here to try to fix a system that isn't really broken? Just my .02 ISK.

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
Mizhara Del'thul
Kyn'aldrnari
#30 - 2016-02-21 17:35:48 UTC
As someone who lived under those systems, I can assure you they're quite a bit more oppressive than you claim. While the Tribes certainly still have work to do to improve the lot of its people, like any nation in New Eden, it cares a damn sight more for its people than the Empire ever has. This is not even a matter of opinion, it's an undeniable truth once you've lived and seen the worst of both.

There is no such thing as a 'good' Holder. There's just the honest ones, and the ones that puts on a mask of kindness to hide what they themselves know very well that they are. Traders of human suffering, for profit and power. It'd almost be excusable or understandable if they'd actually believed their own lies, but Holders are too educated and intelligent for that. It's a conscious choice on their part to be such a part of the system, and thus they are all valid targets for retribution.
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#31 - 2016-02-21 18:08:58 UTC
I am from the Mandate, so I know very well how oppressive the system is. The Amarr want to use us as their economic engine for their own gain while obliterating out culture. The Republic has consistently had lowering crime rates and improving employment rates with the last published Data from the SCC citing an unemployment rate of less than 9% so go try to sell your sob story about how we can't feed our people to someone else because it isn't that way. Moreover, no matter how well the economies of the Mandate, Kingdom or Empire do they do it with slave labor they would fall apart without us.

Also there is free worship in the Republic, Abel Jarek was not executed as an enemy of the state but, killed by a mob of criminals. The fact is trying to push the Amarrian way in the Republic is dangerous but worshipping who you choose quietly isn't.
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#32 - 2016-02-21 20:40:00 UTC
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:
As someone who lived under those systems, I can assure you they're quite a bit more oppressive than you claim. While the Tribes certainly still have work to do to improve the lot of its people, like any nation in New Eden, it cares a damn sight more for its people than the Empire ever has. This is not even a matter of opinion, it's an undeniable truth once you've lived and seen the worst of both.

There is no such thing as a 'good' Holder. There's just the honest ones, and the ones that puts on a mask of kindness to hide what they themselves know very well that they are. Traders of human suffering, for profit and power. It'd almost be excusable or understandable if they'd actually believed their own lies, but Holders are too educated and intelligent for that. It's a conscious choice on their part to be such a part of the system, and thus they are all valid targets for retribution.


How horrible that you had to live under that horrible system. I'm from the Amarr system myself and...oh, I think you mean...

I'm fairly certain that I can prove that the Empire has done more for us. And I'm not talking just spiritually. I went to school, a long time ago, in the Republic. And went right back to the Empire after. I couldn't bear to live in a system that didn't give me strength, didn't care if I starved and certainly didn't respect my right to worship as I please. The Empire provides better education, better opportunity (even for slaves) and better spiritual instruction. Traders in human suffering, my taint. What about the people who are "freed" at gunpoint and dragged light years away from their home? What gives someone in the Republic the right to say that my, our lives are worse here? You can't judge the system based on a few bad examples and Republic propaganda.

Slavery is a part of life. These systems are in place everywhere. What's better? A nurturing environment or the illusion of freedom where a "right of self-determination" really means a right to starve?

Amarr is far from perfect. But it's a damn better system. And I prefer to create better systems than destroy everything. You don't burn down your house because a light fixture breaks.


“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
Sinti Vailatti
Angelis Exploration
#33 - 2016-02-21 20:44:53 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
I am from the Mandate, so I know very well how oppressive the system is. The Amarr want to use us as their economic engine for their own gain while obliterating out culture. The Republic has consistently had lowering crime rates and improving employment rates with the last published Data from the SCC citing an unemployment rate of less than 9% so go try to sell your sob story about how we can't feed our people to someone else because it isn't that way. Moreover, no matter how well the economies of the Mandate, Kingdom or Empire do they do it with slave labor they would fall apart without us.

Also there is free worship in the Republic, Abel Jarek was not executed as an enemy of the state but, killed by a mob of criminals. The fact is trying to push the Amarrian way in the Republic is dangerous but worshipping who you choose quietly isn't.



I will agree that the Mandate is the worst place in the Empire. It's a dumping ground for every failed Holder and House. I'm lucky to be a part of the Kingdom.

But I trust the SCC as much as I trust the Mandate. And there's a difference between a job where you're slinging ass or hash and a career where you get to build a life.

I know some people are looking to fix the Mandate. But again, you don't self-destruct the ship, just because you scratched the paint.

“Where must we go...we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves?”
edeity
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Crimson Inquisicion
#34 - 2016-02-22 00:06:48 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:

Answering the actual question, if a Sabik is elected into the CSM council I expect him to be limited to working on ships, capsuleer infrastructure improvements, resource management programmes, dealing with the capital-class vessel power creep, capsuleer-specific laws and etc. instead of, you know, pushing for the legalisation of the Sabik faith in Empire sovereign territories.


I agree with your sentiments, except of course on your last point. But the reality for a real Sbik is they would be so skilled in navigating the dual faiths and dual loyalties necessary to keep truth, the unifying belief of purpose guiding the emergence of Savants and destiny for all of New Eden that pushing for a legalisation is pointless. I mean, I imagine this would be so. From what I have read on such topics.

So I could say that if for instance, I were Sabik and elected, it would be in reasonable keeping with the spirit of your expectations.
edeity
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Crimson Inquisicion
#35 - 2016-02-22 00:11:16 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
No. Also, I am now running counter to you. There will be no media campaign or campaign promises. I measly intend to show up randomly throughout your campaign and steal your votes.


You will find your warp stabbed LP farming combat averse friends are actually just there for the ISK. You will find their votes are already accounted for by major null sec voting blocs and you have but the sloppy leftover votes of irrelevancy. But good luck. Perhaps you shall find a voice that resonates. The only true authority is power. Lets see if you have some.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2016-02-22 01:26:51 UTC
edeity wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:

Answering the actual question, if a Sabik is elected into the CSM council I expect him to be limited to working on ships, capsuleer infrastructure improvements, resource management programmes, dealing with the capital-class vessel power creep, capsuleer-specific laws and etc. instead of, you know, pushing for the legalisation of the Sabik faith in Empire sovereign territories.


I agree with your sentiments, except of course on your last point. But the reality for a real Sbik is they would be so skilled in navigating the dual faiths and dual loyalties necessary to keep truth, the unifying belief of purpose guiding the emergence of Savants and destiny for all of New Eden that pushing for a legalisation is pointless. I mean, I imagine this would be so. From what I have read on such topics.

So I could say that if for instance, I were Sabik and elected, it would be in reasonable keeping with the spirit of your expectations.


Though even if a Sabik intends on pushing for a legalisation, the CSM Council is not the place to do so. The CSM council deals primarily on capsuleer matters, far as I know. Any Sabik who is elected into the Council wouldn't be able to push for legalisation anyhow. Being the middleman between CONCORD and us raucous bunch is time-consuming and will-draining enough.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
edeity
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
Crimson Inquisicion
#37 - 2016-02-22 01:44:02 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:

Though even if a Sabik intends on pushing for a legalisation, the CSM Council is not the place to do so. The CSM council deals primarily on capsuleer matters, far as I know. Any Sabik who is elected into the Council wouldn't be able to push for legalisation anyhow. Being the middleman between CONCORD and us raucous bunch is time-consuming and will-draining enough.


Your technical accuracy in this instance does not detract from the distaste in my mouth from a presumptuous Gallentean feeling empowered enough to proffer an opinion here.

I weep for the loss of influence of the Amarr empire in this once hallowed nay treasured corner of New Eden.
Kalo Askold
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2016-02-23 21:16:36 UTC
I like this thread. This is a good thread.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#39 - 2016-02-23 23:44:46 UTC
Kalo Askold wrote:
I like this thread. This is a good thread.


It asks questions that need to be asked.
Morgan Wulver
SAYR Reserve Guard
SAYR Galactic
#40 - 2016-02-25 17:21:10 UTC
I suppose, at the very least, I'll finally be able to bring my walnuts with me if I rotate planetside.

Kirjuun! Uakan! Teknikiara! Kanpai kameitsamuu! Ra ra ra!
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