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Two issues, one small, one bigger
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tigger digger
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2016-02-16 17:34:56 UTC
I'm not sure I like the direction of a couple of things, so I thought I'd post them here to see if i'm missing something.


1) With skill injection, Eve has become, at least for a time, pay to win. A new player with access to loads of cash could be flying a T3 cruiser with all the tech 2 fittings, a supercarrier, or any other ship (or all of them) in a day or two. Yes, eventually people will run out of skill points they want to get rid of for Isk, but the idea that Eve would be pay to win, even temporarily, just rubs me the wrong way. That's the small issue.


2) Destructible stations and citadels. All this looks like to me is painting big red targets all over null sec for PL to run around killing, just because it will cost other players' Isk. That's all they do. Even a decent sized alliance is either going to have to align with one of the two, or lose 70B isk every few months when PL comes around. And when alliances start losing 70B a pop to PL, and players lose billions of ISK because of the ships and equipment that were in them, you'll have mass departure from Eve. In the present circumstance, you live with PL coming around, maybe move a few systems away to let them do what they do, but you don't have to put up another 70B isk to move back. With destructible stations and citadels, you do. Because when PL comes around, they're going to level everything. They want the big isk numbers, they want the massive kills, they're like locust: Anything in their path gets destroyed.

And if stations and citadels are destructible, they will be destroyed, too. Null sec will become a barren wasteland of uninhabited systems.

And that's a bigger problem.

If you're going to tell me that I should mount a defense or find allies, you're clueless.

Personally, if I have to move out of null sec because PL is destroying stations where my stuff is, I'm done. I'm out. I'm not playing in NPC stations.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#2 - 2016-02-17 20:25:08 UTC
tigger digger wrote:



1) With skill injection, Eve has become, at least for a time, pay to win.




No, it hasn't. A new player could technically get the skills required for a Command ship or T3 or whatever right from the get go, that's true...but they won't have the skill to fit it or fly it. They'll still be as clueless as to fittings, how to fly it or game mechanics, so much so that they'll probably lose it to a player who is flying a cheaper ship but has the knowledge and experience to fly it effectively.



Quote:
2) Destructible stations and citadels. All this looks like to me is painting big red targets all over null sec for PL to run around killing,



You obviously have a political axe to grind here, which leads me to ponder how the average player would benefit from these changes...if at all.

Quote:

Personally, if I have to move out of null sec because PL is destroying stations where my stuff is, I'm done. I'm out. I'm not playing in NPC stations.



Good, if that's how you feel, kindly disembark. Whining Nullbears are just as bad as their HIghsec cousins. You may contract your SP and possessions to me, I will make sure they get non-whining use.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
tigger digger
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2016-02-20 12:26:48 UTC
Would anyone who actually knows what "pay to win" means like to reply?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#4 - 2016-02-20 13:22:18 UTC
I know what it means, but the situation in EVE now with SP injectors is simply not 'pay to win'. You are basically wrong.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#5 - 2016-02-20 18:00:44 UTC
tigger digger wrote:
Would anyone who actually knows what "pay to win" means like to reply?


You don't seem to know yourself: "pay to win" refers to being able to buy with real money advantages that are not available in game. No matter how many skill injectors you buy, you cant train HAC VI, or Double Drone Interfacing or Gallente Battleship Specialisation with them.

Whilst I don't like the whole skill injector thing at all, because I think it's corrosive to some fundamental aspects of EVE's philosophy, it's not "pay to win". It's "pay to avoid waiting" or "pay to avoid gating" if you like, but not "to win". Skill point trading is problematic for more complex reasons than that, and you do the issue a disservice by mislabelling and simplifying them.

With respect to destructible citadels, I believe you should read the proposal more carefully, Individual pilot assets are not destroyed or irretrievably lost when a citadel is.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
tigger digger
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2016-02-22 12:28:12 UTC
Well, it isn't strictly "pay to win" as a lot of games deploy it, but you can spend money to boost a character to far greater capability than even someone who has been training for years simply by spending enough money.

Granted this is probably a temporary thing, as people make money from selling SP they don't use anymore, so that's why it was only minor.

And even if items can be retrieved, who is going to spend 70B Isk to put up a citidel just to see it destroyed by some overwhelming force passing through in a couple of months? This is effectively a return to large blobs controlling space.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#7 - 2016-02-22 18:58:49 UTC
Quote:
Well, it isn't strictly "pay to win" as a lot of games deploy it




With your admission that you are wrong and have basically no idea what you're on about...




Quote:
Would anyone who actually knows what "pay to win" means like to reply?




...I think we can all safely agree that the best thing for you to do to save a little bit of face would be to publicly apologise for your senseless waste of electrons in this thread! Lol

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#8 - 2016-02-22 19:15:48 UTC
tigger digger wrote:
A new player with access to loads of cash could be flying a T3 cruiser with all the tech 2 fittings, a supercarrier, or any other ship (or all of them) in a day or two.


A month ago, a new player with loads of cash could go to the character bazaar, buy a high-SP pilot, and be flying a supercarrier in a day or two. I'm not overly fond of skill injectors, but nothing fundamental has changed in this particular regard.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2016-02-22 20:38:59 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
tigger digger wrote:
A new player with access to loads of cash could be flying a T3 cruiser with all the tech 2 fittings, a supercarrier, or any other ship (or all of them) in a day or two.


A month ago, a new player with loads of cash could go to the character bazaar, buy a high-SP pilot, and be flying a supercarrier in a day or two. I'm not overly fond of skill injectors, but nothing fundamental has changed in this particular regard.


Well it kind of has, but eh, whatever, CCP need the money to direly to accept any argument that doesn't involve things being nuked from orbit. There are better battles to fight.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016