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CCP wants to change the Watchlist feature ...
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Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2016-02-21 17:37:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Nope and not even any of the CSM on reddit can muster an argument beyond "it's broken, knowing someone, is online somewhere in eve is totally OP because. Just because NOW STOP ASKING"

It's utterly pathetic, zero acknowledgement that it's a mere fraction of the picture. But gotta keep them super guys happy.

As Rocket_X said in the cap groups - this is a single shard MMO - I should be able to know that someone has 'opted out' of being in my universe. That is reasonable.

But why? You don't get to know if someone is afk or active, subbed or unsubbed. I'm not against Intel to tell if someone is online, but a continuous feeler that alerts you the moment that status changes without any input from you after the initial addition, is way to simple to add interesting gameplay.

Without going to deep into speculation, I believe this will precede a longer list of intelligence changes to come. With observatory arrays coming, CCP is going to have to remove or adjust a lot of the current streams of Intel in order to make the AO useful but not OP. I'm an Intel analyst in the real world, so I get little chubbies just thinking about the possibilities that may come. So if you'll excuse me while I go adjust my pants.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2016-02-21 18:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Why should we not be able to know if someone has placed themselves (literally) beyond all possible interaction?

I mean, if someone can completely and totally opt of the game, is it really unreasonable to know that? To know that you're chasing an impossible target?

Why would a random delay (5-15 minutes) on log on notifications and a 60 second delay on log offksis not suffice to kill the "instant" intel?


And the other thing is, without using killboards, eve who, locators and a scout in the system etc etc the damned thing is completely useless anyway. It's a very small part of the huge out of game metadata wheel, a part that says "this player is now in (potentially) play" and I think that is important.

In an environment were removing oneself from play is allowed, we should most assuredly be able to find that out and yes even that's that's a deus ex machina style solution.

I really don't care about the log on notification, delay that until your hearts are content.


Also I understand this is info available out of game - that should also be killed.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#23 - 2016-02-21 19:02:25 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Why should we not be able to know if someone has placed themselves (literally) beyond all possible interaction?

I mean, if someone can completely and totally opt of the game, is it really unreasonable to know that? To know that you're chasing an impossible target?

Why would a random delay (5-15 minutes) on log on notifications and a 60 second delay on log offksis not suffice to kill the "instant" intel?


And the other thing is, without using killboards, eve who, locators and a scout in the system etc etc the damned thing is completely useless anyway. It's a very small part of the huge out of game metadata wheel, a part that says "this player is now in (potentially) play" and I think that is important.

In an environment were removing oneself from play is allowed, we should most assuredly be able to find that out and yes even that's that's a deus ex machina style solution.

I really don't care about the log on notification, delay that until your hearts are content.


Also I understand this is info available out of game - that should also be killed.

So, I'll repeat myself, if you should know why someon"opted out" by extension shouldn't you know when they have opted out in other means? Docking, afk, unsubbed, etc. Another way to look at it, is why should you know if they've opted out?

And so what if it requires other tools to increase usefulness (which are not all required to be used)? Should a system of instant logon tracking be in place at all? It honestly never should have been implemented to begin with. You might as well ask for info on whether or not your local cloaks camper has decided to not be afk, even if it's delayed.

And on top of that, the process is exceedingly easy and fully accessible. And with recent additions to CREST functionality, it's even easier to do it en masse. Not even a method for the receiving pilot to play counter or manipulate it. How is that balanced?

So, why do you think you have to know if a pilot is online, even though you say it's mostly useless? Btw, there will still be ways to know if a pilot is online, you just don't get an updated list or notification.
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2016-02-21 19:35:56 UTC
Docking, afk can be camped. You have a possibility of contact. Logged off, taken their ball and gone home? You get nothing.

I said knowing ONLINE is useless without other data, knowing a chase is actually impossible is not useless, just reasonable.


Like I say, what's unreasonable about killing out of game access and delaying the log ON notification?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2016-02-21 19:45:07 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Docking, afk can be camped. You have a possibility of contact. Logged off, taken their ball and gone home? You get nothing.

I said knowing ONLINE is useless without other data, knowing a chase is actually impossible is not useless, just reasonable.


Like I say, what's unreasonable about killing out of game access and delaying the log ON notification?



Knowing PL/NC./goons/T-C/whoever have fifty supercap pilots logging in all at once is far from useless information.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#26 - 2016-02-21 19:47:21 UTC
The issue here for literally everyone who isn't wrecking crew is fairly simple, we can't check if someone is worth looking for.

I don't need to know when you log in but I do need to check of you are online before I waste my isk, time and effort looking for you.

I need to be able to ping someone and get a binary online/offline response at the very least or my only other reasonable hope of seeing a war target is by camping the hubs and trade pipes.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2016-02-21 19:47:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Danika Princip wrote:
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Docking, afk can be camped. You have a possibility of contact. Logged off, taken their ball and gone home? You get nothing.

I said knowing ONLINE is useless without other data, knowing a chase is actually impossible is not useless, just reasonable.


Like I say, what's unreasonable about killing out of game access and delaying the log ON notification?



Knowing PL/NC./goons/T-C/whoever have fifty supercap pilots logging in all at once is far from useless information.



Right, which is a problem with supers and is being addressed in Citadels.

And again, were log on information randomly delayed this is materially devalued.


ed: Ralph gets it.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#28 - 2016-02-21 20:15:07 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The issue here for literally everyone who isn't wrecking crew is fairly simple, we can't check if someone is worth looking for.

I don't need to know when you log in but I do need to check of you are online before I waste my isk, time and effort looking for you.

I need to be able to ping someone and get a binary online/offline response at the very least or my only other reasonable hope of seeing a war target is by camping the hubs and trade pipes.


I like this idea you have to check if they are online or not so you can't instantly know if a bunch of supers log in unless you check the pilots individually

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2016-02-21 20:18:11 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The issue here for literally everyone who isn't wrecking crew is fairly simple, we can't check if someone is worth looking for.

I don't need to know when you log in but I do need to check of you are online before I waste my isk, time and effort looking for you.

I need to be able to ping someone and get a binary online/offline response at the very least or my only other reasonable hope of seeing a war target is by camping the hubs and trade pipes.



That's actually not a bad idea. Chuck a small cooldown on it so you can't ping someone every ten seconds, and keep it in game only, and you might have a decent replacement.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#30 - 2016-02-21 20:20:08 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The issue here for literally everyone who isn't wrecking crew is fairly simple, we can't check if someone is worth looking for.

I don't need to know when you log in but I do need to check of you are online before I waste my isk, time and effort looking for you.

I need to be able to ping someone and get a binary online/offline response at the very least or my only other reasonable hope of seeing a war target is by camping the hubs and trade pipes.


I like this idea you have to check if they are online or not so you can't instantly know if a bunch of supers log in unless you check the pilots individually

Particularly given they are war targets, we pay for aggression rights, they get 24h notice of who we are and what we intend and for the expected duration of hostility.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lugh Crow-Slave
#31 - 2016-02-21 20:41:32 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The issue here for literally everyone who isn't wrecking crew is fairly simple, we can't check if someone is worth looking for.

I don't need to know when you log in but I do need to check of you are online before I waste my isk, time and effort looking for you.

I need to be able to ping someone and get a binary online/offline response at the very least or my only other reasonable hope of seeing a war target is by camping the hubs and trade pipes.


I like this idea you have to check if they are online or not so you can't instantly know if a bunch of supers log in unless you check the pilots individually

Particularly given they are war targets, we pay for aggression rights, they get 24h notice of who we are and what we intend and for the expected duration of hostility.


Ok now you lost me I don't think it's your fault I think it just went over my head

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#32 - 2016-02-21 20:54:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The issue here for literally everyone who isn't wrecking crew is fairly simple, we can't check if someone is worth looking for.

I don't need to know when you log in but I do need to check of you are online before I waste my isk, time and effort looking for you.

I need to be able to ping someone and get a binary online/offline response at the very least or my only other reasonable hope of seeing a war target is by camping the hubs and trade pipes.


I like this idea you have to check if they are online or not so you can't instantly know if a bunch of supers log in unless you check the pilots individually

Particularly given they are war targets, we pay for aggression rights, they get 24h notice of who we are and what we intend and for the expected duration of hostility.


Ok now you lost me I don't think it's your fault I think it just went over my head

both myself and the op are mercs , active hunting ones at that.

this change will reduce us to humping hubs and pipes Ugh

my point though was though the people that end up on our watch-lists are notified in advance they are going to war and thus what our intent is

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#33 - 2016-02-21 21:12:08 UTC
I wonder if adding a corp or alliance to a watchlist would trigger thier idea of "mutual"?
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#34 - 2016-02-21 21:23:53 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
I wonder if adding a corp or alliance to a watchlist would trigger thier idea of "mutual"?

do you honestly want more hub humping degenerates?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Lugh Crow-Slave
#35 - 2016-02-21 21:26:33 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
The issue here for literally everyone who isn't wrecking crew is fairly simple, we can't check if someone is worth looking for.

I don't need to know when you log in but I do need to check of you are online before I waste my isk, time and effort looking for you.

I need to be able to ping someone and get a binary online/offline response at the very least or my only other reasonable hope of seeing a war target is by camping the hubs and trade pipes.


I like this idea you have to check if they are online or not so you can't instantly know if a bunch of supers log in unless you check the pilots individually

Particularly given they are war targets, we pay for aggression rights, they get 24h notice of who we are and what we intend and for the expected duration of hostility.


Ok now you lost me I don't think it's your fault I think it just went over my head

both myself and the op are mercs , active hunting ones at that.

this change will reduce us to humping hubs and pipes Ugh

my point though was though the people that end up on our watch-lists are notified in advance they are going to war and thus what our intent is


You can't fool me that's all merc corps do any wayCool


In seriousness though this will hurt more people and play styles than it will benefit

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
r3c0n en Distel
Decompression Theory
Digital Vendetta
#36 - 2016-02-21 22:27:27 UTC
I use the watchlist to track whether or not someone is multiboxing so we know if 4 War Targets are 1 person or 4 individals which assists in tactics.

Most Intel people can tell this without the watchlist but getting OOC eyes flagged to your corp usually requires some form of proof.

This will no longer be the case and so sucks balls imho.

Seeing a lot of talk about Supercaps, so looks like as usual CCP is pandering to the elite level and saying F%^& You to everyone else.

What's next CCP? Pandas and a F%^&ing Farming Option?

Evil
Savnire Jacitu
Undead Retirement Crypt
#37 - 2016-02-22 01:13:31 UTC
So this force people like me to do three things

1. Join a large merc alliance in the hopes of stumbling on to a war target.

2. Join a null sec alliance and pvp there.

3. Become a full time pirate instead of a part time roamer.


I would not be able to do focused war decs. Ever.

Low sec seems the best option. *Half-heart yarr*
Kurosaki Rukia
The House of Flying Stabbers
#38 - 2016-02-22 01:30:19 UTC
Better remove covert ops ships from the game. Depraved, monsterous neutral alts are actually giving people unfair intel with no counterplay. THOSE MONSTERS.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#39 - 2016-02-22 01:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Threm wrote:

no tactical tracking of the opponents, either of 0.0 supercapital pilots or your personal opponent, no matter whether you are the hunter or the prey

wtf is "tactical tracking"? You can run locator agent and fly there to get the information you need.

Threm wrote:

- no chance for determining login traps

wrong, you can see if someone has logged off by using your directional scanner.
Good thing at this is that log in traps are easier for hunters, victims already have the OP tool called local. Any nerf to that is a good one.

Threm wrote:

- no chance to determine alts

why should you be able to?

Threm wrote:

- while hunting one can not determine if the opponent is lost or logged off, which lead to very frustating gameplay

not frustrating for someone being chased.

this change is good and long overdue. You shouldnt be able to see someones online status just by adding them to a list.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#40 - 2016-02-22 02:02:05 UTC
Any and all free intel should be ripped from the game and trashed. You should find out about others by:

1) searching them out

or

2) discovering your ship is being ripped apart and your not quite sure why but it might have something to do with the sudden increase of ships in targeting range.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.