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[IPO] AEGIS Logistics – 50B Investment Opportunity for a 20% Sharehold
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Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2016-02-20 04:28:23 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Some advice from a fellow scammer - don't go for fifty billion until you have serious credibility built up.

I think you might have got there with five or eight with this setup.


I can come up with the 5B myself but not 50.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2016-02-20 04:29:13 UTC
Jerry T Pepridge wrote:
Would like pledge 20b


Pledge for 20B confirmed, thank you :D
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2016-02-20 05:06:53 UTC
Star Killer14 wrote:
Fin Udan wrote:
Ok this a kind of Dragons Den thing

We have somebody with a NAV of 18b wants to sell 20% of his operation for 50b

What do you think the Dragons Den regulars response to this would be?


That is a good point too, I forgot about that in my previous post. It really is not a good idea to ask to barrow more than you have in assets, I do not include SP and toons assets myself. It does leave the issue open of if you lose all the invested isk what happens. It is not like you have enough assets to even say "I will liquidate everything to pay you back".

Also 50b is a large influx if isk - from 18b, I know at one time when I got an influx of a few billion I didn't know what to do with it all. It was a little overwhelming at the time. So yeah, another concern is: Can you handle such a large increase of capital and remain efficient? Seeing how you have never dealt with this much isk before it is kind of a shot in the dark of whether or not you will be successful or not.

My thoughts are there are too many risks for any sane investor with too low of an interest payment, that is not even guaranteed as it is a share of profits not a percent of investment. I would suggest scrapping the 50b and going for 5b or less ideally as 5b is pushing it for an unknown. The interest needs to be at or above 10% if you go for 5b or less. If you are determined to go for 50b, which is not a good idea in your case, the interest would need to be 15%+/ month, in my opinion, to reflect the risks for the investor. Or at the very least there needs to be a guaranteed payment amount and if thing go well you give them more, if profits are high enough.



Yes I can manage the influx of 50B as I ran Incursions for a while and sat on over 30B of liquid ISK that I used to to set up my venture. Yes, it is as risk but you're looking at the short term gain. I'm looking for investors that will stay with me for the duration not just for 6 months or so, that's why I'm offering just 20% of my shares so that I have options for later investments. I can go the Bond route and pay back everything but I'm not an accountant and don't want to run 50 spreadsheets that will take time out of my PvP'ing so dividend payout is the most effective why I can repay investors in the long term.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2016-02-20 06:55:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Eric de'Locke
Just to iterate: The reason for this IPO is because I cannot keep up with demand, I'm selling most if not all of my hulls within the first hour of placing them on the market. The 50B investment will allow me to grow fast enough to meet and maintain demand.
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2016-02-20 12:52:24 UTC  |  Edited by: virm pasuul
Eric de'Locke wrote:

Chapter 4: Statement of Assets

As of this posting AEGIS Logistics is sitting on a little over 12.7 billion in assets (which includes 1 active production tower and associated arrays, over 270 fully researched BPOs and accompanying BPCs, fuel, materials and ships), 2.9 billion in liquid cash, 1.4 billion currently in production and 1 billion in Sell Orders for a total of just over 18 billion.



So let me get this right. You value the 50B you are asking for as being worth 20% when the existing assets total 18B ?

Lets be generous and say you have 20B in assets.
The total assets after the offering would be 50+20 = 70B
The 50B offering would account for 71%
But you value it as 20% ?


If you want to be taken seriously you have to behave competently.
When you behave incompetently all you are doing is proving comedy content.


Fun fact - By valuing 50B at 20% you are valuing your existing assets at 200B over ten times what you state they are.
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2016-02-20 12:55:58 UTC
PS
Jerry pledges 20B to everything he thinks is silly.
This almost certainly isn't a real pledge.
If you read the market forums you would be aware of this.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-02-20 14:01:42 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Eric de'Locke wrote:

Chapter 4: Statement of Assets

As of this posting AEGIS Logistics is sitting on a little over 12.7 billion in assets (which includes 1 active production tower and associated arrays, over 270 fully researched BPOs and accompanying BPCs, fuel, materials and ships), 2.9 billion in liquid cash, 1.4 billion currently in production and 1 billion in Sell Orders for a total of just over 18 billion.



So let me get this right. You value the 50B you are asking for as being worth 20% when the existing assets total 18B ?

Lets be generous and say you have 20B in assets.
The total assets after the offering would be 50+20 = 70B
The 50B offering would account for 71%
But you value it as 20% ?


If you want to be taken seriously you have to behave competently.
When you behave incompetently all you are doing is proving comedy content.


Fun fact - By valuing 50B at 20% you are valuing your existing assets at 200B over ten times what you state they are.


Yes I know the value of what I am placing my assets at as well as taking into account growth over the next 10 months. As stated before the majority of the investment will be injected into Skills so that I can keep up with demand. I'm happy to carry on as I am growing slowly as skills train, I just feel I can do more if I had the ISK to do it hence the IPO.
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2016-02-20 14:31:04 UTC
Care to justify 20-30 billion ISK worth of skills?
This should be interesting.
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2016-02-20 14:34:31 UTC
Why would someone invest 50 billion just so they can receive 20% of the profit that the 50 billion makes whilst you take 80% of that profit?

You scheme makes no sense to a potential investor.
They take on all the risk. You take 80% of the profit.
It's clear you get a lot out of it, but there's sod all in it for the investor.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-02-20 15:04:04 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Why would someone invest 50 billion just so they can receive 20% of the profit that the 50 billion makes whilst you take 80% of that profit?

You scheme makes no sense to a potential investor.
They take on all the risk. You take 80% of the profit.
It's clear you get a lot out of it, but there's sod all in it for the investor.



Because I've already invested my own ISK into training my ALTs, to set up the corporation with it's current production line as well as my time. What I've invested is far and above what I'm asking for so I will retain the lions portion of my shares. If you want I can go back and calculate the cost that I've invested already?
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2016-02-20 15:06:58 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Care to justify 20-30 billion ISK worth of skills?
This should be interesting.


Um, to be able to produce more than what I currently can. It's not rocket science, you know!
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2016-02-20 15:08:42 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
Why would someone invest 50 billion just so they can receive 20% of the profit that the 50 billion makes whilst you take 80% of that profit?

You scheme makes no sense to a potential investor.
They take on all the risk. You take 80% of the profit.
It's clear you get a lot out of it, but there's sod all in it for the investor.



Because I've already invested my own ISK into training my ALTs, to set up the corporation with it's current production line as well as my time. What I've invested is far and above what I'm asking for so I will retain the lions portion of my shares. If you want I can go back and calculate the cost that I've invested already?


It would actually help your case to do that.

I suspect your business model is "give me money so I can be rich"
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2016-02-20 15:11:01 UTC
Try and view your proposal from the point of view of a potential investor.
They have already made the ISK through work, and avoided the risks.
Why would they WANT to invest in your scheme? What's in it for them?
It looks like you can only see your own interests, the benefits to you.
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2016-02-20 15:12:21 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
Care to justify 20-30 billion ISK worth of skills?
This should be interesting.


Um, to be able to produce more than what I currently can. It's not rocket science, you know!


Justify as in lay out the details.
As you say it's not rocket surgery.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2016-02-20 15:36:40 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Try and view your proposal from the point of view of a potential investor.
They have already made the ISK through work, and avoided the risks.
Why would they WANT to invest in your scheme? What's in it for them?
It looks like you can only see your own interests, the benefits to you.


Why, because I'm only parting with 20% of my share? That's 20% for life, getting a return every month that will by far be more than the initial investment. And I'm also offering to buy back the shares at an increased rate after 6 months, what more do you want?

Here's the Skill Plan for the Gallente T2 and T3 ship production:

Industry I
Industry II
Industry III
Mass Production I
Advanced Industry I
Mass Production II
Advanced Industry II
Mass Production III
Advanced Industry III
Industry IV
Mass Production IV
Supply Chain Management I
Supply Chain Management II
Supply Chain Management III
Advanced Industry IV
Supply Chain Management IV
Industry V
Mass Production V
Advanced Mass Production I
Advanced Mass Production II
Advanced Mass Production III
Advanced Mass Production IV
Advanced Small Ship Construction I
Advanced Small Ship Construction II
Mechanics III
Advanced Small Ship Construction III
Science IV
Mechanics IV
Advanced Small Ship Construction IV
Science V
Mechanics V
Gallente Starship Engineering I
Mechanical Engineering I
Gallente Starship Engineering II
Mechanical Engineering II
Gallente Starship Engineering III
Mechanical Engineering III
Gallente Starship Engineering IV
Mechanical Engineering IV
Advanced Small Ship Construction V
Gallente Starship Engineering V


Total time: 75 days, 15 hours, 56 minutes, 21 seconds

To PLEX all character over 3 accounts will take 3 months and 32.4B for the skills to train. Add another 8B for a JF and 10B as a buffer to buy materials. That's a little over 50B. With Skill Injectors I will be able to fast track skills and will need to only PLEX 3 accounts to keep them active and making a profit. At the moment I am PLEXing all 3 accounts but can only train 1 character at a time, including my main, so only 2 production characters are being trained at any given time which will take ages to get where I can get with the investment.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2016-02-20 16:01:50 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Eric de'Locke wrote:
virm pasuul wrote:
Why would someone invest 50 billion just so they can receive 20% of the profit that the 50 billion makes whilst you take 80% of that profit?

You scheme makes no sense to a potential investor.
They take on all the risk. You take 80% of the profit.
It's clear you get a lot out of it, but there's sod all in it for the investor.



Because I've already invested my own ISK into training my ALTs, to set up the corporation with it's current production line as well as my time. What I've invested is far and above what I'm asking for so I will retain the lions portion of my shares. If you want I can go back and calculate the cost that I've invested already?


It would actually help your case to do that.

I suspect your business model is "give me money so I can be rich"


Now you're just trolling, lol :D
virm pasuul
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2016-02-20 16:16:20 UTC
Eric de'Locke wrote:

To PLEX all character over 3 accounts will take 3 months and 32.4B for the skills to train. Add another 8B for a JF and 10B as a buffer to buy materials. That's a little over 50B. With Skill Injectors I will be able to fast track skills and will need to only PLEX 3 accounts to keep them active and making a profit. At the moment I am PLEXing all 3 accounts but can only train 1 character at a time, including my main, so only 2 production characters are being trained at any given time which will take ages to get where I can get with the investment.


and from page 1, bottom post

Eric de'Locke wrote:

5) At the moment I'm making a little over 5B a month and that's with only 4 characters doing the manufacturings. Yes, and profits from any endeavour I undertake will be part of the dividend payout, not just manufacturing. Shareholders will be investing in the corporation not just the products.


You need money to inject 9 characters, yet 4 are already producing?
Why do they injecting if they are already producing?
You are just plucking numbers out of thin air, making it up as you go along.

You're either bad at business, or bad at scamming. At this point it doesn't really matter which.
It's clear you're not serious about about a genuine offer. Despite the harsh nature of my criticism I have been trying to help you, by showing you where the problems are in good faith. I don't now believe you yourself are acting in good faith, and as such continuing this would just be a waste of my time. I shall leave your thread in peace.
Good luck.
Eric de'Locke
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2016-02-20 17:04:36 UTC
virm pasuul wrote:
Eric de'Locke wrote:

To PLEX all character over 3 accounts will take 3 months and 32.4B for the skills to train. Add another 8B for a JF and 10B as a buffer to buy materials. That's a little over 50B. With Skill Injectors I will be able to fast track skills and will need to only PLEX 3 accounts to keep them active and making a profit. At the moment I am PLEXing all 3 accounts but can only train 1 character at a time, including my main, so only 2 production characters are being trained at any given time which will take ages to get where I can get with the investment.


and from page 1, bottom post

Eric de'Locke wrote:

5) At the moment I'm making a little over 5B a month and that's with only 4 characters doing the manufacturings. Yes, and profits from any endeavour I undertake will be part of the dividend payout, not just manufacturing. Shareholders will be investing in the corporation not just the products.


You need money to inject 9 characters, yet 4 are already producing?
Why do they injecting if they are already producing?
You are just plucking numbers out of thin air, making it up as you go along.

You're either bad at business, or bad at scamming. At this point it doesn't really matter which.
It's clear you're not serious about about a genuine offer. Despite the harsh nature of my criticism I have been trying to help you, by showing you where the problems are in good faith. I don't now believe you yourself are acting in good faith, and as such continuing this would just be a waste of my time. I shall leave your thread in peace.
Good luck.


Yes, 4 are already producing but not to the level I would like as only 2 can produce T3 Destroyers while 2 others are currently training. 1 produces the components needed and the other the Enyos. All done within 24 hours for 5 Enyo and 20 T3Ds. Some already have the skills in training that's why I want to use Skill Injectors as it will fast track their development so that I can produce more. I'm not trying to scam anyone, and yes you have been harsh to the point of trolling. But if you are genuinely trying to help you will see that I am not an accountant with tons of spreadsheets telling me exactly where every ISK is spend or gained. I am just a single guy looking to expand his current operation. I don't need the 50B, it would just help so that I can do more. From my point of view you have no clue on how industry works or what goes into producing a single T2 or T3 ship, it isn't 1 easy step but multiple steps need to be completed. And lets not forget the invention process for the T2 and T3 BPCs that have to be done as well. So you tell me again if I'm bad at business or if I'm trying to scam?
Star Killer14
Core World Imperium
#39 - 2016-02-20 20:18:02 UTC
I agree with almost everything virm pasuui said. The way you are evaluating and justifying your total worth is a fallacy. It reminds me of many people who would present their ideas the the "Sharks" on the show Shark Tank, great show by the way. You can not include as value what you will be worth in 10months, all that matters is what you are worth now. Currently you are worth 18b so you need to be willing to hand over a larger amount of isk now to investors, ask for a more reasonable amount, or just wait and grow slower but keeping more potential long term profit.

Also as mentioned before, the investor has already suffered through the time and pain needed to build their fortune. Yes you have invested time into your project, no one is arguing that but the investor also invested time into their own projects to get where they are now. Therefor their isk is worth just as much as yours when it comes to pain and sweat, you seem to fail to see this.

Virm was being helpful, he wasn't trolling, and if you could have taken is advice and discussed in civilly you maybe on the right path but your last few posts have greatly hurt your chances of this being successful.

I think you have an idea and a plan but you are not good at taking criticism which is very bad. I personally refuse to consider investing in someone who 1) doesn't have an exit strategy and 2) doesn't take criticism well.

Finally remember getting 20% of something is better than getting 100% of nothing.
Droodid
Antec Enterprises
#40 - 2016-02-20 20:20:04 UTC
Star Killer14 wrote:
have greatly hurt your chances of this being successful.


There was never any chance to be fair.
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