EVE General Discussion

Hope it will last forever !

playing since 2003 but you'd be surprised at how little skillpoints I have. Not a min maxxer, more than a few times forgot or couldnt be bothered to log in to train another absurdely long boring skill or took a 6 month break. I have a few hundred mill SP but spread over about 10 accounts not one.

Agent Moon, 4 days old, lost 1.98B Kronos. noice. o7

Avg. SP/hour: 1,411,704.49

LOL.


Ok, so CCP, how do you plan on correcting this situation?

What are the next steps you are planning to take to prevent EVE from going down the pay-to-win drain?

Which bizdevs are being fired for this fiasco and when will their employment be terminated exactly?

Who will replace them and what guarantees are you giving us that they won't be just as much focused purely on short-term gain and just as willing to sacrificing the very spirit of your flagship product?

Don't split hairs.

It's clear that SP alone don't make you "win" but being able to max out a character is a massive advantage.

It's no different then gold-ammo that gives you 50% increased damage - that also doesn't ensure you'll win, it will simply stack the odds in your favour.

Also, if you think this will be the last pay-to-win feature that these bizdevs will implement then you must be extremely naive (to put it mildly).

If you don't understand the advantage of having perfect skills then I really can't help you.

If skills were irrelevant (or no advantage) as you claim then why would people be willing to stay subscribed to this game for 10+ years to train skills? And why would CCP claim that they implemented injectors to allow newer people to "catch up" (even if that is a blatant lie to cover up their attempt at a massive cash grab). So clearly CCP agree with me that SP give you a significant advantage - otherwise there would be no need to implement a "catch up" mechanism and charge horrendous sums for people to access that mechanism, right?

i didn't say it doesn't have an advantage. it has but compared to the complexity of EvE and the bigger picture it's minimal.

the only obvious advantage of course is the ability to fly "bigger" ships, which is, most of the time, not good since in EvE, bigger doesn't mean better. i could even argue that some meta mods are even better than T2s, example, one of my fave mods, the phased muon sensor disruptor compared to the T2 remote sensor dampener.

so if guys like IronBank can rustle your jimmies then, can i haz your stuff?

the issue is you are generalizing this way too much.

ok answer me this, who would win between a tristan (with level 4 even 3 skills) with ab-scram vs a condor in kiting fit (with max skills) in a FW plex if the tristan pilot caught the condor when the condor slid in? then reverse the scenario, what if the tristan has the max skill but failed to catch the condor when he slid in? both of this instances doesn't actually give each other any advantage in terms of SP, but rather with your actual experience in the game.

as i've said earlier EvE is too complex to just say more SP =/= winning. yeah more SP is an advantage but why call it pay2win if it's just an advantage.

advantage =/= win!

i agree. advantage =/= win, so please stop saying this feature as pay2win.



this is false. most meta mods are not pricey compared to T2s, see my previous meta mod example. so actually, using the cheaper meta mods while learning the ropes is highly encouraged. infact even veterans in GalMil sitll uses meta mods even if they can use T2s because that's how our mechanics makes us do or else we'll be broke in no time, after all FW is war of attrition



this is again false, unless that wild card is gonna give you your hit cards and cheat then no. besides, poker is way different than EvE, imho, and not comparable.

No it's not false. Using the cheapest modules for a fit requires higher (fitting) skills then using more expensive modules (with reduced fitting requirements). Hell, the extreme of this are faction modules that are often somewhere between t2 and meta4 from a performance point of view but with much lower fitting requirements (often comparable or even lower then t1).

Just check out the fitting recommendations for Gallente FW - often there are cheap fits with high SP requirements and similar fits with more expensive modules but that require less skills to use. The Tristan is actually a good example of this.

And on the Poker comparison: sure the games are not 1-to-1 comparable but the situation in my example is the same as with skill injectors in EVE: you can pay extra to get an advantage (which boils down to having a better chance at success).

In short: EVE is no longer a level playing field but out-of-game inequality now has a direct influence on the game. And this is a very bad thing if you want a fair competition. It's the same thing with doping in sports - it stops being a competition among people with the same initial chances of success and then using their skill/dedication/will/training to decide who is best and comes down to who has the best doping drug ( = RL-cash in the case of EVE).

Again, it doesn't remove all other requirements and replace them purely with a pay-to-win based system (things like player skill, situation awareness and good planning are still a major factor) but that's the case in pretty much any other MMO that most people would consider "pay-to-win" or at least very close to it. Games like World of Tanks come to mind... sure, if you totally suck then paying large sums of money on the game will not make you win every time but again - like in EVE since the introduction of skill injectors - you can use RL-cash to buy an advantage over people that are unable or unwilling to drop RL-cash.

I guess we simply have a different definition of what pay-to-win means. Yours is something like this: you pay and then you instantly get a pop-up that says "you won". Everything else is not pay-to-win by your (very narrow) definition. My definition on the other hand is that, through paying RL-money you are more likely to be successful (and get that pop-up) in the game compared to people that are not paying RL-money. And this is clearly the case with skill injectors - otherwise (if - according to you - SP are not a huge advantage) then please explain to me why CCP claim it's necessary for low-SP characters to have a mechanism that allows them to catch up in the first place? (Especially when that mechanism is tied to very large sums of RL-money since no regular newbie will conceivably be able to afford enough injectors to actually "catch up" without buying PLEX).