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Dev blog: Unboxing the new Camera in EVE Online

First post First post First post
Author
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#581 - 2016-02-19 18:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominous Nolen
As directed by CCP Darwin/CCP Support twitter posting feed back here in hopes the UI team will comment

Original Reported thread >> Tab Not rolling windows

Since January's patch (maybe even back into December) the minimize function of the double tap tab feature no longer works (I'm sure it can be rebound, but....)

Adding in my notes from the original thread for visibilty to the UI team. As it appears this feature was removed with out communication (correct me if I'm mistaken).

Tweet from customer service team

=================

For a lot of people that was actually a useful feature... Can it still be bound to something or is the roll up just completely gone?

Q: What as the ratio of people confused vs. those users who found it useful functionality?

Couldn't you have put in some kinda prompt (I hear that new opportunity system is good for giving feedback) like a pop up regardless of aura's state for notifications in game?
The pop up box could activate the first time or persist until someone clicks on an acknowledgement they've read/understand the text when someone accidentially clicked tab twice. Just needs to give basics to say what happened, why and how to restore..

Pretty sure once someone sees the prompt (unless this just X out of everything instantly) will understand and move on.

Hell, future idea.... make one of those new flight academy videos have a pro-tip UI type of video just going over some little nice features that players might not know about? *purely spit-balling here* Go over useful UI tweaks so new bros understand some of the complexity of the UI, what it can do and how it can be tweaked to make the eve experience better, rather then killing something we use cause a few people accidentally mis-clicked tab and complained? I can't ever recall seeing someone post about a problem with the function... so why remove it?

Q: Was this even a discussed change in a patch note, forum thread (aside from the one opened after the change) or other? I don't follow every CCP twitter account (let alone actively monitor twitter daily) so maybe I missed it, but in reality first time i knew there something amiss was when I came here after looking for an explanation as to where the function went.

It was nice to be able to quickly roll down everything to get a full view of whats going on and returning it normal state. You've had that feature for as long as (and probably longer) then I've been playing.. it was removed with out any real notification. Pretty sure I didn't see it in a patch note but I could be mistaken.

=================

If we can get some kinda comment on why you're removing a feature due to what I'm sure is a small percentage of player base (most likely new trial accounts) and not taking into consideration that the function had a purpose for older players who have used this for years (it's been in since long before I started playing I'm sure)

CCP UI team - Please comment/consider revision of your change.. Yes I know its a small function, but really we did use it...

/rant - for now

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood

Aivlis Eldelbar
Foxholers
Outfoxed
#582 - 2016-02-19 18:40:27 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Hello everyone,

We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.

We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.

Once again thanks for all the feedback and support.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters


Respect for moving the deadline <3
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#583 - 2016-02-19 20:07:45 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Hello everyone,

We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.

We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.

Once again thanks for all the feedback and support.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters



I have rambled a lot in this thread - not my usual behaviour - but now it´s time to say "Thank you CCP Turtlepower" for doing what should be done. :)
I am looking forward to be able to use the new camera since it has some really nice features.
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#584 - 2016-02-19 20:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
New camera breaks entirely (can't pan screen) when you jump a jump freighter to a cyno.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#585 - 2016-02-19 21:07:27 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Hello everyone,

We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.

We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.

Once again thanks for all the feedback and support.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters

Thanks for listening. I promise in return to give he new camera another try.

Remove standings and insurance.

Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#586 - 2016-02-19 21:36:43 UTC
I am still using the classic camera for the following reasons.

Tactical: This can be turned off or on easily anyway. I personally rarely use it anyway as I find the white too bright and the distances are not accurate.

Orbit camera: It is still missing two important features for me, the 'look about' while holding left mouse button, and the ability to zoom in by holding the right MB and moving the mouse forward/backwards. Glad you brought the 'c' to look at ability back in though.

First person mode: The inability to look around, this is such a great view, but you can only look forward, seems a shame. I'm not sure what advantages it has not allowing movement. Having the turning keys is fine, but I either orbit, approach or double click in space to move mostly, as soon as something fly's past your vision you can't see it. The zoom feature is a nice touch. Please let us look about in this view.

Keep up the good work.
Yui z
State War Academy
Caldari State
#587 - 2016-02-20 02:12:40 UTC
Please, please !

Remove that annoying background sound on the tactical camera .. what the hell is this for anyway beside being a pain to our ears ? And remove it also from the ship tree where you're at it..
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#588 - 2016-02-20 02:33:02 UTC
Since the addition of the toggled tracking camera I've been leaving the new camera enabled. I really don't like the way I constantly have to find my ship due to the tracking cam offset and the wacky zoom changes but I'm finding it bearable enough to stick with it so that I can get used to it.

Daemun of Khanid

Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
#589 - 2016-02-20 02:34:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Morwen Lagann
Yui z wrote:
Remove that annoying background sound on the tactical camera


This too. Same for the first-person camera. Or give them their own, UNIQUE sliders in the audio menu. They hurt my ears but given the way you guys have designed the selective audio volume sliders, there's really no way of knowing where you've put a given set of audio cues or effects. Half the time they're in sets where they frankly don't belong, like ambience stuff being in the UI slider.

That's... not okay. Nor does it make sense.

Morwen Lagann

CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar

Coordinator, Arataka Research Consortium

Owner, The Golden Masque

Idame Isqua
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#590 - 2016-02-20 02:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Idame Isqua
Before the community fixes your new camera what about the community fixing your old camera?

The old camera was broken

If you have something locked you have to select it again to look at it

The old camera was broken

If you looked at something hitting look at (nothing) didn't do anything and you had to manually use the information button window (which is entirely useless apart from acting as a fix for the broken "feature" and click the stop look at button.

If I want to manually pilot towards a ship after having to click on something one to many times
It was simple enough

If I wanted to manually pilot away from something I had to fight the terrible UI of eve again
First I have to lock it and start shooting it or whatever
Then I have to move my camera (if its a locked target it should be ALWAYS primary selected item having to always click again and again is dumb)
Ok that was a nightmare but I still have a job to do
Now I have to click on my ship in space

Only now can I manually pilot away from the ship I'm fighting

In short
unless i click on something else
default to looking at my selected target
default to looking at my last selected anything
default to something $^@$*$^ing logical
$^**% do i have a shortcut for looking at something but not un looking at something
^&%&$*$%& is looking at something and tracking my own ship so hard %^&$%%$ else would I want to do
*^%(^&%%^&( logic please
default to tracking my own ship (why the ^$&* would I want to d scan from the position of another ship?????

CCPLEASE

(Click on something one to many times usually results in me logging off from eve)

This was dumb and painfully bad.

How the old camera should of worked.

My selected target is always primary focus
I lock it or whatever
I hit look at
(Previously manually piloting towards and d scanning stuff worked good)
Automatically (IF I HAVE AUTOTRACKING ON) IT AUTO TRACKS MY OWN SHIP BECAUSE NOTHING ELSE IS LOGICAL!
Now I can manually pilot away just as "easily" as I can towards

Now the new camera lol what
What is the point of the new probe window if you can't d scan using it?????????????

You can't PvP with the new camera
You can't D scan with the new camera

The new camera is a joke

Fix what was broken with the old camera and call that a new camera if your so intent on bringing new "features".


Also on the delayed d scan I'm kinda surprised thats being called a accident now
Surely it was a "feature"
Invisusira
Escalated.
Project Gungnir.
#591 - 2016-02-20 06:35:12 UTC
Tracking camera only appears to work when you click on the overview, not on actual objects in space.
Terraj Oknatis
Project Sanctuary
#592 - 2016-02-20 06:53:16 UTC
RAGE HAS ENDED

Thank you so much for listening to our concerns

This was a unexpected yet pleasant turn of events.

Get it right, make it better than it is now, then release it!!!!!!
RuleoftheBone
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#593 - 2016-02-20 06:58:43 UTC
CCP Turtlepower wrote:
Hello everyone,

We met with the CSM this week had an extensive session to go over the new camera, and have a pretty sizable task list to work on in the coming weeks. To make sure we get the camera into top shape before making it the only camera, we have decided to leave the old camera in for another month.

We are not planning on deploying more tweaks and fixes to Tranquility until the March 8th release.

Once again thanks for all the feedback and support.
CCP Turtlepower // Team Psycho Sisters


I want to express my thanks for delaying the roll-out until the behavior of both camera/scanner can be base-lined/normalized to the current abilities of the legacy system.

Going forward though....PLEASE look at getting the minimum standard of performance equal to legacy as a default....and then allow us end-users to add functionality as desired.

For example....I don't care about gee whiz effects, making movies, and screen shots. Let those that care about such enable and build from the default.

As another pilot mentioned I will be happy to re-visit the new when it reaches the minimum of functioning properly as the legacy systems already do.

And finally....if the POS towers and Citadels can co-exist for the length of time required to figure out the end-state of change-over....surely the ability to keep the legacy camera/scanner is trivial in comparison.

Thanks for listening

Bone

p.s. IF...as I have heard rumored...this whole camera/scanner business is meant to be some sort of stealth nerf to non-lazy pilots who know how to dscan/track with camera/probe......may I suggest removing local as THE overpowered stupid intel tool within the game Pirate.

In WH space nobody hears you scream until it's too late. Share the fun with nullsec P
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#594 - 2016-02-20 10:12:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
Simple list here:

- Closer limit on zooming in. I can barely see any details on my ship the few times I want to zoom in on it.
- Retain FOV after session change. I play across 3 screens and the zoomed out FOV works great for that surround effect from stretching the edges, but I have to change it again every time I undock or jump through a gate. (A method to reset FOV would also be something that should be considered once this retention between session changes works).
- Bring back the ability to use right click to pivot the camera on its own axis and do extreme zooming when using the orbit camera (Sorry for the really old vid but you get the idea :D)
- I'd LOVE for the ability for the same to work on the FP camera so I can look around without changing course of the ship.
- Ability to customize the locations of your ship and a "tracked" object.
- Ability to toggle the "fly by" effect of looking at another ship as a it moves. I want my camera locked to it the same way my ship would. It's great for a cinematic framing, but not so much for actual combat

Also THANK YOU for removing the "Look At" limit of 100km. I was able to finally accurately target some POS modules I was sniping at. Being able to directly look at the series of batteries that were 230km away ensured I didn't needlessly lock onto an already incapped gun :D

The Drake is a Lie

Erebus 'TheChin' Sundance
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#595 - 2016-02-20 11:07:36 UTC
[quote=Xercodo]Simple list here:


- Bring back the ability to use right click to pivot the camera on its own axis and do extreme zooming when using the orbit camera (Sorry for the really old vid but you get the idea :D)


This is exactly what I meant, sorry If I explained it appallingly, and nice to see someone else that wants view movement in first person mode.

Nicola Arman
Deep Maw Salvage
#596 - 2016-02-20 13:53:44 UTC
The Tracking function needs to be fixed. It is not nearly as smooth and seemless as the old camera. Also maybe some options or sliders to set Default FOV. It's really annoying having to adjust this every time you look at something.
Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
#597 - 2016-02-20 15:41:26 UTC
Thank you for adding toggle for camera tracking, and for improving dscan. Trying out the new camera today, again. Sometimes the movements seem odd and I want to counter them with my mouse to get a better view. One example was going into warp just now, the camera slid forward in front of my ship, so the ship wasn't even on the screen anymore. I zoomed back, of course. The overall experience seems to be improving, though.

Do not run. We are your friends.

Aliana Heartborne
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#598 - 2016-02-20 19:10:11 UTC
Dominous Nolen wrote:
As directed by CCP Darwin/CCP Support twitter posting feed back here in hopes the UI team will comment

Original Reported thread >> Tab Not rolling windows

Since January's patch (maybe even back into December) the minimize function of the double tap tab feature no longer works (I'm sure it can be rebound, but....)

Adding in my notes from the original thread for visibilty to the UI team. As it appears this feature was removed with out communication (correct me if I'm mistaken).

Tweet from customer service team

=================

>quote snipped


do want window roll up/down back indeed
Gommel Nox
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#599 - 2016-02-20 20:19:41 UTC
I posted this days ago in the upcoming feature thread on this topic, and apparently the reason I didn't get any response from anyone was because I was supposed to post in the dev blog thread. My bad.

Gommel Nox wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, and I apologize profusely if it already has been beaten to death, but here's my big issue with the new HUD/camera changes. For those of you who do not know, I am a quadriplegic capsuleer. What this means is that I do not have the physical ability to type on a keyboard at all, I cannot feel anything below my chest, and I cannot move my fingers, wrists, or even arms in a meaningful way. In spite of all of these things, I have still managed to keep my eve career going since 2008, adapting with every new change to the UI since.

However, the recent changes to the HUD/game camera are very concerning to me. The reason behind this is that, with the new UI, it is completely impossible for me to zoom in and out. I'm not sure what exactly happened to the zoom buttons, and while CCP Punkturis successfully managed to CCPass_The_Buck to CCP Goliath, not knowing that he was no longer on the team involved with the UI changes. While I should be concerned that, within CCP, people don't know exactly what other people are doing, I'm even more concerned that the new UI changes will be shoehorned in, with disabled people being told to "just bind buttons to zoom in and out" as if it were a feasible option for everybody who plays. I assure you that it isn't.

If you don't know at this point, in addition to being a disabled gamer, I also stream and occasionally write for themittani.com, and I would absolutely love to be able to pick your brain about Eve online being what I would consider one of the most accessible games available for people with disabilities, in a TMC feature for my column, Access:Granted. I really hope you will consider an interview.

Thank you very much


Has this been discussed already?
Dominous Nolen
The Graduates
The Initiative.
#600 - 2016-02-20 22:50:57 UTC
Morwen Lagann wrote:
Yui z wrote:
Remove that annoying background sound on the tactical camera


This too. Same for the first-person camera. Or give them their own, UNIQUE sliders in the audio menu. They hurt my ears but given the way you guys have designed the selective audio volume sliders, there's really no way of knowing where you've put a given set of audio cues or effects. Half the time they're in sets where they frankly don't belong, like ambience stuff being in the UI slider.

That's... not okay. Nor does it make sense.


Also add controls to turn off incursion chatter, Thera ambiance.

@dominousnolen

"Fly dangerously, Fly safe, Fly whatever, just keep Flying." - Lee Blackwood