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What is your opinion on Star Citizen?

First post
Author
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#141 - 2016-02-19 18:05:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Now something struck me.

If I could visually describe what I feel about Roberts life in games buisiness, I would tell that this guy started speeding on ice a long time ago, while there are a lot of serpentine turns ahead in his life, next always sharper than the previous. Shocked

Or in other words: I see a pattern where Roberts first started climbing a little horse, with the first game conceived, he have done it but it wasnt easy. Then he wanted to climb a bigger horse, his ambitions really wanted to be satiated. like a madman, he completely lost common sense when working on Freelancer. Microsoft, serious company with serious people who have seen what was going on, had to cut the destructive reign of overly ambitious Roberts.
The smaller horse he climbed with a lot of trouble, the middle one was too big for him. and now, he wants to climb the fricking elephant! Lol Who will react in time, if ambitions and incompetency will prove to be real, signs of those we indeed had earlier...

Single player Squadron can serve as an apetizer for the SC. But for Roberts it will be also a test bed. Everyone will see what the hell was conceived and how the QUALITY (bugs, glitches, performance) behind the project looks. Maybe even Roberts will push out the game too hastily with a lot of issues, that will be patched for longer time, just to profit earlier, even furher stretching the faith of backers. Squadron will serve as funding source (i think it wil even have a microtransaction shop with stuffs, in a single player game!), together with few, but very serious SC founders, who really will fight with fervor for SC to come out, maybe they will even buy 5000$ ships, only to see their dream come true...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#142 - 2016-02-19 19:29:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nana Skalski wrote:
Or in other words: I see a pattern where Roberts first started climbing a little horse, with the first game conceived, he have done it but it wasnt easy.

Coincidentally, among the myriad of companies tied to Chris in his ever-expanding vortex of corporate insanity, one is a farm that bred and trained horses. Also coincidentally, a few years back, a semi-successful horse named Star Citizen was raised and later sold for some spare change… So your analogy may be more literal than intended.

Another interesting corporate entity tied to CR is Rising Star Pictures CFP, which seems to have folded around the same time as he was setting himself up to get thrown out of Hollywood for trying to screw over Kevin Costner. Of course, it's not the only “Rising Star Pictures” company out there — it seems to have been part of the cluster of companies operated by CIG bigwig and long-time Roberts partner Ortwin Freyermuth. If (and how) those companies are connected to Rising Star Pictures is unknown. But funny to contemplate… Lol

Of course, considering his past (and present) connections to the whole Gizmondo affair and its Uppsala Mafia connections, adding horse racing and porn to a tangle of disparate corporate entities that look more like a money laundry scheme than anything, seems rather par for the course. The Godfather-inspired horses head image remixes are already out there to further poke fun of the situation.

Quote:
Single player Squadron can serve as an apetizer for the SC. But for Roberts it will be also a test bed. Everyone will see what the hell was conceived and how the QUALITY (bugs, glitches, performance) behind the project looks. Maybe even Roberts will push out the game too hastily with a lot of issues, that will be patched for longer time, just to profit earlier, even furher stretching the faith of backers. Squadron will serve as funding source (i think it wil even have a microtransaction shop with stuffs, in a single player game!), together with few, but very serious SC founders, who really will fight with fervor for SC to come out, maybe they will even buy 5000$ ships, only to see their dream come true...

The problem is that, SQ42 is basically just WC for a new decade, but you have to question how many new players it will actually pick up. By now, any old WC fan will have heard of Chris' latest adventures in development land and there's not much to suggest that the audience is much larger than the one he has already captured. At best, the lack of solid information about what SQ42 will actually offer and how means that there might be some who are holding back and waiting for a release, but it seems like an insanely risky move to bet on it as a source of funding for the subsequent DLC and expansions (and SC development).
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#143 - 2016-02-19 19:43:18 UTC
Hmm.

While Squadron is sheduled to come out in 2016, we could see a few slips, at least into beginning of 2017. You know, they could always say:"even big companies have issues with games, and we are only a crowd funded company under Roberts lead".
Varathius
Enlightened Industries
Goonswarm Federation
#144 - 2016-02-19 20:32:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Varathius
Tbh, Star Citizen costs what, for Squadron 42 and the big multiplayer to be pre-ordered? Like 40-50 bucks and you get a ship with it etc? Well one thing is certain, if the game does ever come out (if it does), for the price that you pay that enables you to play the single and multiplayer campaign, you are getting a heck of a bargain... there are games out there for 60+ bucks that offer not even 1/10th the content. Again, that is if the game comes out.
However, I do not understand why people keep believing that you need hundreds of dollars to play it, if I am not mistaken, the cheapest version that allows you pay it is slightly above 40 bucks or so?Also, ALL ships that people get with pre-orders now can also be earned in-game...Anyway, haven't pre-ordered it, but a lot of people clearly misunderstand the prices, crowdfunding etc... then again, there are in fact people that compare SC to Eve Online... two completely different types of games.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#145 - 2016-02-19 21:22:03 UTC
Varathius wrote:
However, I do not understand why people keep believing that you need hundreds of dollars to play it, if I am not mistaken, the cheapest version that allows you pay it is slightly above 40 bucks or so?Also, ALL ships that people get with pre-orders now can also be earned in-game.

It's not really that — it's the blatant and hilarious hypocrisy of the zealots who engage in campaigns of review dumping and abuse against other games they consider a threat, and use price as an argument why SC is better.

Elite: Dangerous is perhaps the most popular target, with it's entirely normal pricing structure of base game + DLC expansions, which is decried as disgraceful and predatory even though SC has the exact same structure and nothing to show for itself. It may not be a requirement, but the simple fact remains that these are the same people who have spent thousands, even tens of thousands, on digital content for a game that doesn't exist. In spite of writing huge covetous drool-texts on the topic of their desire for some newly released concept art, they try to make the argument that these are not “purchases”, just “donations” or “pledges,” ignoring not only what they just said about wanting to buy those ships, but also ignoring the fact that CIG's store lists them as purchases and charge VAT. CIG then immediately try to suggest that these purchases aren't what the store says they are in a desperate attempt to avoid consumer laws (and they've failed pretty consistently at this) so as to not bleed too much money.


There's also the far more problematic issue of what, exactly, those purchases promise to deliver. Will the zealots really keep singing the same “it's a donation” song when it turns out that the ship balancing and game economy is such that the ships are worth $5 each? Or will CIG tune the economy such that you really do have to put in $10,000 worth of work in order to unlock a good collection of ships, and balanced the game such that these price tags make even the slightest bit of sense, in which case we'll have the most spectacular instance of P2W ever conceived in gaming history. CIG has to choose between screwing over the whales, making their ship not-purchases next to worthless or screwing over themselves by forcing new players to buy in at ridiculous prices if they want to play.

But beyond that, no-one actually knows if or how those ships can be earned in the final game. CIG says that people will be able to earn them all, but CIG says a lot of things and has a long history of not being very truthful about anything. No details of the economy are actually known, other than that it'll be player run but controlled by NPCs (which makes no sense). No details of the industry are known, other than that you will be able to collect materials and build ships (but for what purpose, when the NPCs control the market and LTI exists?) We know how much the in-game currency costs, but nothing has been revealed about how much it is actually worth. We don't know how the tiny sliver of equipment they've actually released will be balanced because by their own admission, CIG will have to redesign almost everything as more systems are completed, and all they're doing now is tweaking XML values to keep the engine from crapping itself to pieces due to how those values make the ships behave.


So nothing about the game's cost, the cost of the ships, the cost of the future expansions, or the cost of anything CIG is offering the backers have any rationale behind it… which means that it comes across as nothing but a well-crafted effort to suck as much money out of the wallets of suckers who don't understand how the pricing of games and digital goods work.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#146 - 2016-02-20 09:08:40 UTC
wow some of you nerds need yo understand exactly what the scale of this game is. these games dont get built i 1 year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35555086

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#147 - 2016-02-20 10:03:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Well as I invested in Star Citizen to the tune of $400, taht was fairly early on and I want to develop my ships in game.

I am happy to see the development moving along nicely.

Two days ago me and two other ex-Eve players joined the same instance, boarded a Connie, had a fight with some other players, I was top gunner, another bottom gunner and another flew the Connie, we died because the balance of the connie is not right, but who cares its still in development and needs a balance pass that Chris Roberts already indicated will happen. It was also difficult to lock targets.

We went to a station, got out grabbed a gun and had some combat with other players, I like the seamless nature of it and while I am not happy with the ship balance I see the huge potential of the game. I have played Elite Dangerous and we had 5 ex-Eve players on at the same time with no way to interact with each other, that is not the same as Star Citizen where I was in ship with my mates.

We also went out in a small fleet which was fun too.

That game play potential is great.

I had not been on it for a while as I was playing ESO and the downloads were tedious for me, so I only check the game every so often, but the most recent check showed just how much progress has been made, to be blunt I like what I see very much.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#148 - 2016-02-20 13:31:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
tiberiusric wrote:
wow some of you nerds need yo understand exactly what the scale of this game is. these games dont get built i 1 year.

But then it hasn't been one year, now has it? It's been four, and they still have nothing but a hilariously broken tech demo and no real progress in sight. They haven't even figured out to build a patcher yet, ffs.

In less time than the 300+ CIG team has done next to nothing, entire games have been produced and released with far larger scale and scope (although the latter is more because SC has no defined scope, which is one of its most critical and crippling flaws) by far smaller teams.

Also, this: http://i.imgur.com/MPaFtS0.jpg

Dracvlad wrote:
I have played Elite Dangerous and we had 5 ex-Eve players on at the same time with no way to interact with each other
Ehm. Even in “solo” mode, you're still interacting with other players in E:D — if you play in team and open, it becomes even more direct. And then, of course, there's the multi-crew for later this year… What?
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#149 - 2016-02-20 18:19:20 UTC
So far? Same as before really.

When people tell me how awesome Star Citizen is going to be, I can't help but fondly remember a couple of titles that were supposed to be awesome too. Games like Daikatana and Duke Nukem Forever.

In my experience, games that has been in development hell for a long time tend to suffer from two things; outdated technology and so unreasonably hyped that they just fall flat in number of sales and reviews.

Do I think Chris Robert can pull it off and deliver his vision? No. I don't, because unless Chris Roberts suddenly masters time manipulation then neither time or money is going to be an infinite resource at his disposal. But what I do think is that he is not going to repeat another 'Freelancer' release.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

lilol' me
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#150 - 2016-02-20 20:56:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
wow some of you nerds need yo understand exactly what the scale of this game is. these games dont get built i 1 year.

But then it hasn't been one year, now has it? It's been four, and they still have nothing but a hilariously broken tech demo and no real progress in sight. They haven't even figured out to build a patcher yet, ffs.

In less time than the 300+ CIG team has done next to nothing, entire games have been produced and released with far larger scale and scope (although the latter is more because SC has no defined scope, which is one of its most critical and crippling flaws) by far smaller teams.


You clearly dont know how big it is, and remember there is the single player game as well as the mmo. Its quite frankly a massive undertaking, a lot of games are 4+ years in the making. They also started completely from scratch, there wasnt a big studio already. I mean look a the actors they have brought in also. Yes there is nothing completed yet but that doesnt mean there isnt going to be.
This could quite possibly be one of the greats, possibly.. However the pay to play BS just puts me off completely.

Also which games are you comparing this to? I mean if you want to put Eve in the mix which has been in constant development for 13 years then its nowhere near the scope of SC.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#151 - 2016-02-20 21:40:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
lilol' me wrote:
You clearly dont know how big it is, and remember there is the single player game as well as the mmo.
…which doesn't change the very simple fact that they've blown through every deadline they've set up and never been able to make a sane and sensible estimate for when anything will be done. It doesn't change the fact that they have never been able to nail down a scope. It doesn't change the fact that all they have after four years is a broken tech demo.

My knowing how big the game is has no impact on, or relevance to, how little they've done in the time they've had at their disposal.

Quote:
a lot of games are 4+ years in the making.
…and they have generally moved beyond broken tech demo in that time. Just because a game takes long does not mean that it's any good. Just because it's complex does not mean it has to take a long time to make. But when, as in Chris' case, the fundamental systems are still not designed or even planned out 4 years in, and you keep restarting the design from scratch because you've had a new brilliant idea, you've ****** up and need to get back on track or you'll never actually be done.

Quote:
I mean look a the actors they have brought in also.
How is that in any way relevant other than to suggest that they're mismanaging their funds as well as their time and development talent?

Quote:
Also which games are you comparing this to? I mean if you want to put Eve in the mix
…then the incompetence of the SC development process becomes not just worrisome, but outright hilarious. EVE was far larger and vastly more complex, and was finished in less time than the simplistic single-player component of SC even though it was developed in a loft by a handful of drunken icelanders.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#152 - 2016-02-20 21:59:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
EVE has aquired a lot of features later, when it was already released. What is different when comparing EVE and SC is that EVE was a great starting package. The basics were there. Even when the graphics lacked, performance lacked, there was not so many people playing, they pushed forward because of that.

IN SC it looks like basics are yet to be developed because what is there now, rather looks like a bunch of 3D stuff thrown together. With only the fighting mechanisms, and even not balanced.
Where is meaningfull mision hub with npcs? Where is economy, where is production?
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#153 - 2016-02-20 23:35:04 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
EVE has aquired a lot of features later, when it was already released. What is different when comparing EVE and SC is that EVE was a great starting package. The basics were there. Even when the graphics lacked, performance lacked, there was not so many people playing, they pushed forward because of that.

IN SC it looks like basics are yet to be developed because what is there now, rather looks like a bunch of 3D stuff thrown together. With only the fighting mechanisms, and even not balanced.
Where is meaningfull mision hub with npcs? Where is economy, where is production?


Probably less than 5% of the current EVE content was already present on release; and of that content, everything has been recoded at least once since release. The last and oldest of the original features were sun flares, which were recoded last year...

This is why I think that E:D haves a enormous potential, btw. As the quote goes (can't find the English original so I'm re-translating from Spanish): "The prototype of a superior technology is always inferior to the developed example of a inferior technology".

Yet where E:D is a empty but complete shell, SC so far is a piece of a supposed larger body...
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#154 - 2016-02-23 07:14:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
EVE has aquired a lot of features later, when it was already released. What is different when comparing EVE and SC is that EVE was a great starting package. The basics were there. Even when the graphics lacked, performance lacked, there was not so many people playing, they pushed forward because of that.

IN SC it looks like basics are yet to be developed because what is there now, rather looks like a bunch of 3D stuff thrown together. With only the fighting mechanisms, and even not balanced.
Where is meaningfull mision hub with npcs? Where is economy, where is production?


Probably less than 5% of the current EVE content was already present on release; and of that content, everything has been recoded at least once since release. The last and oldest of the original features were sun flares, which were recoded last year...

This is why I think that E:D haves a enormous potential, btw. As the quote goes (can't find the English original so I'm re-translating from Spanish): "The prototype of a superior technology is always inferior to the developed example of a inferior technology".

Yet where E:D is a empty but complete shell, SC so far is a piece of a supposed larger body...

You mean perpetuum mobile?

What is ones dream can be anothers nightmare. We have a term for perpetuum mobile in games production, its called development hell. Cool

I see how games can go out of that hell, films also. They sometimes prove to be very succesfull, but under one condition, that the money, people and work will be managed like a scarce resources. Not the neverending stream of donations, because it seems to spoil Roberts.
Galan Amarias
Kantian Principle
#155 - 2016-02-24 00:06:06 UTC
Vaporware, really expensive vaporware.