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Crime & Punishment

 
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My Loyalonan jamming Blackbird on it 1st outing
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Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#41 - 2016-02-16 18:23:36 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The AG guys need a few machs and some practice. That's it. All this other hoo haw is foolish. Bump the mach w/ a pair of machs and the exercise is over. No need for heroic BB, smart bombing mallers or anything else.

You need 3 guys w/ bumping skills and the correct ship.


Disclaimer: This only works on the out gate when the freighter is trying to get into warp. If the freighter is on auto pilot approaching the gate (1) you can't save him (2) he's getting what he asked for.


Have you ever bumped?
If you did, you know that:
1- bumping AFK stuff is easy
2- bumping stuff that's moving faster than a freighter is harder
3- bumping a pro bumper is impossible before he lands a bump on his target

Bumping is an art that only a handful master.
And luckily for CODE., most are already with them Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#42 - 2016-02-16 18:43:29 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The AG guys need a few machs and some practice. That's it. All this other hoo haw is foolish. Bump the mach w/ a pair of machs and the exercise is over. No need for heroic BB, smart bombing mallers or anything else.

You need 3 guys w/ bumping skills and the correct ship.


Disclaimer: This only works on the out gate when the freighter is trying to get into warp. If the freighter is on auto pilot approaching the gate (1) you can't save him (2) he's getting what he asked for.


Have you ever bumped?
If you did, you know that:
1- bumping AFK stuff is easy
2- bumping stuff that's moving faster than a freighter is harder
3- bumping a pro bumper is impossible before he lands a bump on his target

Bumping is an art that only a handful master.
And luckily for CODE., most are already with them Lol



I've lived in wh since they were put in the game. Bumping folks off of wh so they can't escape is pretty common. It's not that hard and if you read closely

"You need 3 guys w/ bumping skills and the correct ship."

A little true story for you. One of my guys messed up a few weeks back. Was getting bumped by a mach in niarja in an orca. We brought in a total of 5 webs, which were all useless. Some white knight in a kronos got a bump on the mach and we were able to get the orca on its way. I can't speak to the WK's bumping skill as I don't know him. I can say that a kronos (yeah a motherfooking kronos) is totally the wrong ship to bump a mach. He pulled it off anyway (thanks man!!). Not to put your panties in wedgie formation or anything, but if a random HS dude in a kronos can derail a CODE bumper, then "Ain't all that difficult" is more probable than your "impossible".

It's pretty easy to get a good bump on a mach when it's turning to make another run at the freighter.

If you really truly believe that bumping is an art that only a handful master - don't come to wh space - you'll be quickly enlightened by most experienced players there.... err I mean come to wh space, you'll be perfectly fine orbiting that HS wh you're chained to for safety.

Next you'll be telling me that a stabbed, cloaked, ecm burst, mjd DST is perfectly safe when escorted by a scout.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/52057454/

It's just dumb to say something skill / effort related in eve is impossible.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#43 - 2016-02-16 18:48:54 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The AG guys need a few machs and some practice. That's it. All this other hoo haw is foolish. Bump the mach w/ a pair of machs and the exercise is over. No need for heroic BB, smart bombing mallers or anything else.

You need 3 guys w/ bumping skills and the correct ship.


Disclaimer: This only works on the out gate when the freighter is trying to get into warp. If the freighter is on auto pilot approaching the gate (1) you can't save him (2) he's getting what he asked for.


Have you ever bumped?
If you did, you know that:
1- bumping AFK stuff is easy
2- bumping stuff that's moving faster than a freighter is harder
3- bumping a pro bumper is impossible before he lands a bump on his target

Bumping is an art that only a handful master.
And luckily for CODE., most are already with them Lol



I've lived in wh since they were put in the game. Bumping folks off of wh so they can't escape is pretty common. It's not that hard and if you read closely

"You need 3 guys w/ bumping skills and the correct ship."

A little true story for you. One of my guys messed up a few weeks back. Was getting bumped by a mach in niarja in an orca. We brought in a total of 5 webs, which were all useless. Some white knight in a kronos got a bump on the mach and we were able to get the orca on its way. I can't speak to the WK's bumping skill as I don't know him. I can say that a kronos (yeah a motherfooking kronos) is totally the wrong ship to bump a mach. He pulled it off anyway (thanks man!!). Not to put your panties in wedgie formation or anything, but if a random HS dude in a kronos can derail a CODE bumper, then "Ain't all that difficult" is more probable than your "impossible".

It's pretty easy to get a good bump on a mach when it's turning to make another run at the freighter.

If you really truly believe that bumping is an art that only a handful master - don't come to wh space - you'll be quickly enlightened by most experienced players there.... err I mean come to wh space, you'll be perfectly fine orbiting that HS wh you're chained to for safety.

Next you'll be telling me that a stabbed, cloaked, ecm burst, mjd DST is perfectly safe when escorted by a scout.

https://zkillboard.com/kill/52057454/

It's just dumb to say something skill / effort related in eve is impossible.



Skill and AG don't go together
Now get off your high horse because no one will bump a bumper for free
And a bumper bumper is always a good target too Cool

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#44 - 2016-02-16 19:48:13 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:

And a bumper bumper is always a good target too Cool

bumping a bumber bumper with another bumper ...

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Nofear Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#45 - 2016-02-16 20:26:11 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The AG guys need a few machs and some practice. That's it. All this other hoo haw is foolish. Bump the mach w/ a pair of machs and the exercise is over. No need for heroic BB, smart bombing mallers or anything else.

You need 3 guys w/ bumping skills and the correct ship.


What do you think is going to happen if you put 3 machs on field???? Yep, goodbye mach(s)......

Alt and proud
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2016-02-16 22:02:27 UTC
Nofear Alt wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The AG guys need a few machs and some practice. That's it. All this other hoo haw is foolish. Bump the mach w/ a pair of machs and the exercise is over. No need for heroic BB, smart bombing mallers or anything else.

You need 3 guys w/ bumping skills and the correct ship.


What do you think is going to happen if you put 3 machs on field???? Yep, goodbye mach(s)......



If you pay much attention to their machs they tank them, also they can have 4 or 5 bumpers operating in the pipeline at one time, we need to watch their stations to and report about undocks and active fleet make ups, if people would listen to our intelligence they would have no targets,

Most of you have good ideas which have been tried and work but only once or twice before they counter it, finding something that is fun to do for an evening is the key I think

Going to try the "gank a bumper plan (concord calling)" over the next day or two, might even use catas just to see the damage we can do


A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me

Ginnie
Doomheim
#47 - 2016-02-16 22:41:40 UTC
Bump the bumping bumper to bumping bumper cars where he can bump all bumping night long

It sounds plausible enough tonight, but wait until tomorrow. Wait for the common sense of the morning.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#48 - 2016-02-17 16:50:30 UTC
Ozzie Udan wrote:
Nofear Alt wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
The AG guys need a few machs and some practice. That's it. All this other hoo haw is foolish. Bump the mach w/ a pair of machs and the exercise is over. No need for heroic BB, smart bombing mallers or anything else.

You need 3 guys w/ bumping skills and the correct ship.


What do you think is going to happen if you put 3 machs on field???? Yep, goodbye mach(s)......



If you pay much attention to their machs they tank them, also they can have 4 or 5 bumpers operating in the pipeline at one time, we need to watch their stations to and report about undocks and active fleet make ups, if people would listen to our intelligence they would have no targets,

Most of you have good ideas which have been tried and work but only once or twice before they counter it, finding something that is fun to do for an evening is the key I think

Going to try the "gank a bumper plan (concord calling)" over the next day or two, might even use catas just to see the damage we can do





I'm not sure if you guys have ever been involved, but the mach working for the gankers is holding the freighter until the gank fleet assembles and gets there. It takes time. There aren't a bunch of gank ships already there just waiting. They would get concorded. So (sigh) once again. You can bump the mach - you have time - and again - you aren't going to save a pilot that is on auto pilot that is trying to slow boat to the gate.

This would only work to save an active player trying to warp and he needs a friendly webber to spring him when the opportunity happens. It would be a team effort with an available webber. You can't just bump the mach and all will be good. This is a viable solution.

Here's why it isn't used:*

1. freighter pilot is afk asking to be ganked
2. freighter pilot doesn't have a webbing buddy around to assist
3. freighter pilot isn't on comms to call for help in a meaningful timeframe.
* It pretty much boils down to freighter pilots moving a lot of isk solo and pretending that's how the game works.


To prevent ganks from starting:

1. scout ahead (don't jump into a system w/ a mach on the gate)
2. use side gates to systems like Niarja (yeah it's 2 more jumps, but the upside is you don't get ganked)
3. bring a webbing ship and try to beat the bumper if it comes to that


Once the bumping starts:
1. get help quickly (this implies you are in an active corp, on comms and have corpies willing/able to help you)
2. get webbers in place next to the freighter
3. get a bump or two on that ebil ganker mach to buy some align time for your freighter
4. web that sucker into warp and off to freedom*
5. trick a buddy into jumping into system w/ a more valuable freighter to draw them off of you Shocked
*knowing the right time to web takes practice to get the feel for when to apply webs for max effect (I don't recommend practicing in Niarja)
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#49 - 2016-02-18 08:11:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I'm not sure if you guys have ever been involved, but the mach working for the gankers is holding the freighter until the gank fleet assembles and gets there. It takes time. There aren't a bunch of gank ships already there just waiting. They would get concorded. So (sigh) once again. You can bump the mach - you have time - and again - you aren't going to save a pilot that is on auto pilot that is trying to slow boat to the gate.

This would only work to save an active player trying to warp and he needs a friendly webber to spring him when the opportunity happens. It would be a team effort with an available webber. You can't just bump the mach and all will be good. This is a viable solution.

Here's why it isn't used:*

1. freighter pilot is afk asking to be ganked
2. freighter pilot doesn't have a webbing buddy around to assist
3. freighter pilot isn't on comms to call for help in a meaningful timeframe.
* It pretty much boils down to freighter pilots moving a lot of isk solo and pretending that's how the game works.


To prevent ganks from starting:

1. scout ahead (don't jump into a system w/ a mach on the gate)
2. use side gates to systems like Niarja (yeah it's 2 more jumps, but the upside is you don't get ganked)
3. bring a webbing ship and try to beat the bumper if it comes to that


Once the bumping starts:
1. get help quickly (this implies you are in an active corp, on comms and have corpies willing/able to help you)
2. get webbers in place next to the freighter
3. get a bump or two on that ebil ganker mach to buy some align time for your freighter
4. web that sucker into warp and off to freedom*
5. trick a buddy into jumping into system w/ a more valuable freighter to draw them off of you Shocked
*knowing the right time to web takes practice to get the feel for when to apply webs for max effect (I don't recommend practicing in Niarja)


Gank ships are stored in Kamio, which gives very nice cover of both choke points.

1. Not all freighter pilots are AFK
2. Most hisec players are casual so don't go mad on multiple accounts, or the freighter is from a 0.0 player
3. Most hisec players are in 1 man or NPC corps, so comms and help is not normal, also if 0.0 alliance calling for help in hisec is not going to get anything

The game is a team game except when it is not or when it suits the gank play.

1. Choke systems..., also many of the people don't have multiple accounts so limited chance for scouts
2. They cover those gates too and will follow into Kaap in any case
3. Webbers are an issue for 1 man corps, NPC corps and casual players with one account, assuming Eve is a multi account game again or that having a corp with more than 1 man won't get a war dec is kinda meh

1. Implying that is where you are going wrong, what is hisec mostly made up of?
2. Webbers from where? Out of their butt magically?
3. Easier said then done, I have the advanatge over you in that I have actually done it, problem is that you find more Mach's turning up
4. Have to get the Webber to duel, thats a whole can of worms that one
5. Really what a great option that one, with so many Machs taht is two confirmed losses

Webbing is easy, though its best to have a high level character do it, I used Dracvlad to web in a Loki with twin faction webs

Your issue here is not looking at the reality of the prey and who is doing the ganking, you sort of get it in terms of this:

Quote:
(this implies you are in an active corp, on comms and have corpies willing/able to help you)


You can assume that this nearly never applies, hisec is a different eco system, but don't worry too much, a lot of those casual players are walking away anyway, that's fine they don't get Eve Big smile

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#50 - 2016-02-18 08:16:17 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:

And a bumper bumper is always a good target too Cool

bumping a bumber bumper with another bumper ...

Bumpception!

Evil RatKid
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#51 - 2016-02-18 12:38:08 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
I'm not sure if you guys have ever been involved, but the mach working for the gankers is holding the freighter until the gank fleet assembles and gets there. It takes time. There aren't a bunch of gank ships already there just waiting. They would get concorded. So (sigh) once again. You can bump the mach - you have time - and again - you aren't going to save a pilot that is on auto pilot that is trying to slow boat to the gate.

This would only work to save an active player trying to warp and he needs a friendly webber to spring him when the opportunity happens. It would be a team effort with an available webber. You can't just bump the mach and all will be good. This is a viable solution.

Here's why it isn't used:*

1. freighter pilot is afk asking to be ganked
2. freighter pilot doesn't have a webbing buddy around to assist
3. freighter pilot isn't on comms to call for help in a meaningful timeframe.
* It pretty much boils down to freighter pilots moving a lot of isk solo and pretending that's how the game works.


To prevent ganks from starting:

1. scout ahead (don't jump into a system w/ a mach on the gate)
2. use side gates to systems like Niarja (yeah it's 2 more jumps, but the upside is you don't get ganked)
3. bring a webbing ship and try to beat the bumper if it comes to that


Once the bumping starts:
1. get help quickly (this implies you are in an active corp, on comms and have corpies willing/able to help you)
2. get webbers in place next to the freighter
3. get a bump or two on that ebil ganker mach to buy some align time for your freighter
4. web that sucker into warp and off to freedom*
5. trick a buddy into jumping into system w/ a more valuable freighter to draw them off of you Shocked
*knowing the right time to web takes practice to get the feel for when to apply webs for max effect (I don't recommend practicing in Niarja)


Gank ships are stored in Kamio, which gives very nice cover of both choke points.

1. Not all freighter pilots are AFK
2. Most hisec players are casual so don't go mad on multiple accounts, or the freighter is from a 0.0 player
3. Most hisec players are in 1 man or NPC corps, so comms and help is not normal, also if 0.0 alliance calling for help in hisec is not going to get anything

The game is a team game except when it is not or when it suits the gank play.

1. Choke systems..., also many of the people don't have multiple accounts so limited chance for scouts
2. They cover those gates too and will follow into Kaap in any case
3. Webbers are an issue for 1 man corps, NPC corps and casual players with one account, assuming Eve is a multi account game again or that having a corp with more than 1 man won't get a war dec is kinda meh

1. Implying that is where you are going wrong, what is hisec mostly made up of?
2. Webbers from where? Out of their butt magically?
3. Easier said then done, I have the advanatge over you in that I have actually done it, problem is that you find more Mach's turning up
4. Have to get the Webber to duel, thats a whole can of worms that one
5. Really what a great option that one, with so many Machs taht is two confirmed losses

Webbing is easy, though its best to have a high level character do it, I used Dracvlad to web in a Loki with twin faction webs

Your issue here is not looking at the reality of the prey and who is doing the ganking, you sort of get it in terms of this:

Quote:
(this implies you are in an active corp, on comms and have corpies willing/able to help you)


You can assume that this nearly never applies, hisec is a different eco system, but don't worry too much, a lot of those casual players are walking away anyway, that's fine they don't get Eve Big smile



Sorry to bin you w/ out bothering to look you up (I'm pretty sure you've done the same to me), but I think it's cute that you're explaining eve to me. I'll just leave it at that.
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-02-18 13:01:02 UTC
Those last to long post gave me a new idea, at times when bumpers are about we could pre-gank a bumper as a freighter pilot drops gate clock, that's the danger time for them

It would need the freighter pilot to be at keyboard and want to talk to us but that could work, just the timer to wait out for the next bumper gank

Feed back on that please

A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#53 - 2016-02-20 07:59:12 UTC
Tora Bushido wrote:
I'm no gank experts, but why arent anti gankers using 2 newbie chars to defend freighters ? Have one of your chars sit next to the freighter being bumped and have the second char gank the first char the moment you see the CODE fleet warp to the frieghter. Wont Concord be already there when they arrive and kill them all ?

Have a few more guys do that and you wont even see the freighter, as its surrounded by Concord.

No worries about killrights, as both are your own chars and security status you fix with tags.

Just a thought. Would probably work better then reps, dps or ECM.



Isn't Concord baiting rather frowned upon?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Church Lady
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2016-02-20 08:04:01 UTC
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Now isn't this precious Blink



the correct word is"special" and stay on your side of the street you deviant.
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#55 - 2016-02-20 08:08:00 UTC
Church Lady wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Now isn't this precious Blink



the correct word is"special" and stay on your side of the street you deviant.

lol little alt is mad eh?
must be sad to fail all day everyday Lol

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
Something Really Pretentious
#56 - 2016-02-20 09:03:17 UTC
Church Lady wrote:
Kaely Tanniss wrote:
Now isn't this precious Blink



the correct word is"special" and stay on your side of the street you deviant.



Oooo...deviant. Be careful with the big words..wouldn't want to hurt yourself Roll

Oh..and in case you weren't aware..on C&P..post with your main or gtfo Twisted

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#57 - 2016-02-20 09:50:08 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Sorry to bin you w/ out bothering to look you up (I'm pretty sure you've done the same to me), but I think it's cute that you're explaining eve to me. I'll just leave it at that.


I have read a lot of your posts and agree with much of what you say, my post was more to ram home the obvious points to others not you. Of course we have a different view point, but in some areas I agree with your posts a lot, you might have seen my name pop up a number of times liking your posts.

For what it is worth you are a poster that I read because you do make very good points.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2016-02-20 10:51:20 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Tora Bushido wrote:
I'm no gank experts, but why arent anti gankers using 2 newbie chars to defend freighters ? Have one of your chars sit next to the freighter being bumped and have the second char gank the first char the moment you see the CODE fleet warp to the frieghter. Wont Concord be already there when they arrive and kill them all ?

Have a few more guys do that and you wont even see the freighter, as its surrounded by Concord.

No worries about killrights, as both are your own chars and security status you fix with tags.

Just a thought. Would probably work better then reps, dps or ECM.



Isn't Concord baiting rather frowned upon?




Concord baiting may be frowned upon, that's why I think it should be bumper ganking at which point Concord will still turn up to stop us, down side we get a kill right on us, our aim to put the bumper off to help freighter get away and one day kill bumper too

A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#59 - 2016-02-20 11:05:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Ozzie Udan wrote:
Those last to long post gave me a new idea, at times when bumpers are about we could pre-gank a bumper as a freighter pilot drops gate clock, that's the danger time for them

It would need the freighter pilot to be at keyboard and want to talk to us but that could work, just the timer to wait out for the next bumper gank

Feed back on that please


I would suggest you have a chat with Jennifer en Marland about ganking bumpers, that player has ganked a number of bumpers. I had fleeted up with her once to try to gank one, but there was two Macherials and we needed to get three Talos's on them as they had fitted a tank of sorts and it was too difficult to pull off. Ganking a very fast moving BS is not the same as ganking a freighter.

The only time you can really pull it off is catching them at the gate, but your timing has to be perfect otherwise they will jump through and you will make them very happy. EDIT You could keep an eye on intel for other ganks and hope that the Mach pilot is also flying a gank Catalyst at the same time so you can get the drop on him.

So people say yeah gank the bumpers, but its easier said then done which is why I said to Tora lets see you do it ,and not to my surprise he made an excuse and did not put his money where his mouth was, I make it quite clear in my response, I was not able to gank a Macherial and admitted that I had failed.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Ozzie Udan
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-02-21 08:06:25 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Ozzie Udan wrote:
Those last to long post gave me a new idea, at times when bumpers are about we could pre-gank a bumper as a freighter pilot drops gate clock, that's the danger time for them

It would need the freighter pilot to be at keyboard and want to talk to us but that could work, just the timer to wait out for the next bumper gank

Feed back on that please


I would suggest you have a chat with Jennifer en Marland about ganking bumpers, that player has ganked a number of bumpers. I had fleeted up with her once to try to gank one, but there was two Macherials and we needed to get three Talos's on them as they had fitted a tank of sorts and it was too difficult to pull off. Ganking a very fast moving BS is not the same as ganking a freighter.

The only time you can really pull it off is catching them at the gate, but your timing has to be perfect otherwise they will jump through and you will make them very happy. EDIT You could keep an eye on intel for other ganks and hope that the Mach pilot is also flying a gank Catalyst at the same time so you can get the drop on him.

So people say yeah gank the bumpers, but its easier said then done which is why I said to Tora lets see you do it ,and not to my surprise he made an excuse and did not put his money where his mouth was, I make it quite clear in my response, I was not able to gank a Macherial and admitted that I had failed.


Thxs for information, my attack plan doesn't have just one goal,

1st it has 2 areas to operate in, at the gate, to work with the freighter pilot as a diversion as he drops gate clock.
Other area at the bump site.

The gate scenario is simple to give high value targets better odds at getting into warp, down side we die fast to gate guns and diversion needs to be planned

Bump site, to try and kill bumper or hold him so freighter can get away, if we fail, concord will be on site and if our timing is right the gank fleet will be on its way, higher chance of a gank fail with concord around

Feed back always welcome, it's all about learning what works and how

A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head A painting of me