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Worries about the skill injectors, and the future of the game.

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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#101 - 2016-02-17 05:53:53 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Thankfully one can count on the Marketing guys getting things right... Lol

Advertisement on the Launcher:

FLY THE SHIP OF YOUR DREAMS!
PILE ON THE SKILLPOINTS!
WITH SKILL INJECTORS

Translation:

PAID A SUBSCRIPTION, GOT NO BACON!
PAY AGAIN AND GET BACON!
PRESS BUTTON



you talk as if everybody has 100B isk and/or willing to spend $1000 in one go.

simple question, can you give me an "educated" guess of how many, let's say, out of 10 newbros who join EvE at a time will dish out RL $ to buy injectors? lol
I can tell you from my extensive dealings in the CB that about two out of ten new accts (That make out of trial and actually sub) will buy a character. No way of saying if it's an actual newbro behind one of those accts or a vet buying an alt on a new acct. But there you go.

If I were to extrapolate, I'd say that if 2/10 spend an average of 12 PLEX on a new character now, you might get as many as 9/10 dropping a single PLEX for an injector or two. Pure speculation on my part, though. Still, it will be interesting next FF to see what stats CCP will share with us on the topic.

Mr Epeen Cool


from that scenario, 2 injectors for every newbros, imho, is not bad. that's just 1M SP, that won't even make AWU 4 to 5 which is a PIA to SP up to be honest.

Just Add Water
FearlessLittleToaster
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2016-02-17 06:55:14 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
something about freshness and legs up


What bothers me most is watching veterans who have devoted 8, 10, 13 years to EVE offer countless testimonials that this change hurts their game and for the most part, are being laughed out of the room. People tell them "adapt or die," "HTFU," and "if you don't like it, leave." My favorite is: "this game isn't for everyone." Right. The guy who's been here 13 years isn't "right" for EVE? Isn't it at all worrisome to anyone that we're shedding some of our most devoted players on a gamble that new players "with the attention span of Daffy Duck" will replace them and stick around? What kind of bedazzlements will need to be introduced to keep that kind of player interested? Can that kind of player be retained for 8, 10, 13 years?

I think it changes everything.



I have been here seven years, and I think this is a positive change. I am far from alone in this among my veteran peers. This really does change very little; I'm sad you feel your skill training was cheapened by the introduction of injectors, but if your game experience is defined by being able to sit in a shiny hull after waiting X number of months to do so... you may not be right for Eve. Its not about sitting in the ship. Its about what you do with it.
FearlessLittleToaster
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2016-02-17 07:01:54 UTC
Captain StringfellowHawk wrote:

It was not to long ago that many alliances and corporations had SP requirements in order to apply and join. The big push on the New Player Experience reduced this a lot, seeing the big blocs openly bringing new players in and showing them they can make a difference opened a large world to newly subbed players. The SP Injectors are going to bring a nasty side of EVE's past back. The New Player Experience will be replaced with the New Player SP requirements. You have a risk of alliances and corporations going back to the old mentality of X-SP to join.


The organizations that did this widely were exterminated by a hordes of Goons (and their allies), at first so SP poor they could barely manage meta-2 Rifters. But through diplomacy, organization, and planning they overcame their lack of skill points to win mighty victories. The space knights, rich in SP but few in number and far less capable as a group, mostly died confused and offended that they were vulnerable to such a wretched mass of scrubs. Now Pandemic Legion, along with every other null power worth mentioning, actively recruits day old players.

The lesson is that human capital is far more valuable than skillpoints. Any group that denies itself players, with all the ability they bring to the game, will be wiped out by somebody who encourages skill-poor but ability-rich humans to join their group. This lesson has been learned by the big powers of null. If they forget, or somebody else makes a play without grasping it, then they will fail just as all those who did the same failed before them.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#104 - 2016-02-17 07:04:18 UTC
Yonis Kador wrote:


What bothers me most is watching veterans who have devoted 8, 10, 13 years to EVE offer countless testimonials that this change hurts their game and for the most part, are being laughed out of the room.
They're being laughed out of the room because they're full of ****.

Like I said in another thread, where do you think all those injectors are coming from? Noobs? It's these guys with the13 year old characters that are crying all the way to the bank. Selling off all their SP and then whining that the game is ruined.

What a bunch of hypocrites.

Mr Epeen Cool
DJ Khanid
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2016-02-17 07:18:22 UTC
You want my advice? Don't play yourself.

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#106 - 2016-02-17 07:28:17 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Thankfully one can count on the Marketing guys getting things right... Lol

Advertisement on the Launcher:

FLY THE SHIP OF YOUR DREAMS!
PILE ON THE SKILLPOINTS!
WITH SKILL INJECTORS

Translation:

PAID A SUBSCRIPTION, GOT NO BACON!
PAY AGAIN AND GET BACON!
PRESS BUTTON



you talk as if everybody has 100B isk and/or willing to spend $1000 in one go.

simple question, can you give me an "educated" guess of how many, let's say, out of 10 newbros who join EvE at a time will dish out RL $ to buy injectors? lol


You got exactly the opposite of what I was saying. I am critizicing how CCP aims at big pockets and in the process devaluates people who "just" pay a subscription.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#107 - 2016-02-17 07:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
Yonis Kador wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
something about freshness and legs up

Lol

Seriously, it's almost a shame to see the 1st real dev response to sp trading in quite some time rest on a cliché RE: this feature not being pay to "win." Semantics. We understand that skill > sp. But it's certainly pay for "opportunities more quickly than poor scrubs who can't afford to shell out $$$ or anyone else who doesn't participate."

The example I keep falling back on (and this is just my personal story; I'm sure many people have one with longer trains) is that for years I wanted to fly a Damnation. I used to 'show info' and admire the hull every few days. Lame and sad yes... but also true. I just thought it was a beautiful ship and wanted one - but the reason why is mostly irrelevant. The point is that this goal drove my game for a really long time. As luck would have it, I crossed the finish line literally days before sp trading went live. How am I not supposed to feel that this years-long goal wasn't devalued when every player in EVE became potentially able to fly one in minutes a few days later? With max gunnery & missile skills in minutes to boot?

It's insane.

What bothers me most is watching veterans who have devoted 8, 10, 13 years to EVE offer countless testimonials that this change hurts their game and for the most part, are being laughed out of the room. People tell them "adapt or die," "HTFU," and "if you don't like it, leave." My favorite is: "this game isn't for everyone." Right. The guy who's been here 13 years isn't "right" for EVE? Isn't it at all worrisome to anyone that we're shedding some of our most devoted players on a gamble that new players "with the attention span of Daffy Duck" will replace them and stick around? What kind of bedazzlements will need to be introduced to keep that kind of player interested? Can that kind of player be retained for 8, 10, 13 years?

I understand the arguments why some folks feel this change was good for the game but as I sit here not playing, unsure of if I even want to invest more time in game, its a tough sell. Every hurdle or obstacle that I faced in the years I've been here can now be easily avoided. It's been made meaningless. And yet people continue to say this "changes nothing." Really? Nothing?

I think it changes everything.

But I also don't see how you undo this horror show without inflicting even worse damage. Which is why, I suppose, we're bleeding vets. It's practically an orchestrated culling to modernize the playerbase for RMT transactions the old guard would never approve.

It's just pretty difficult atm to see any of this being a positive change for EVE. Well, not the EVE I know anyway.

YK



CCP already took care of veterans. You know, 65% of the player base is less than 3 years old. Another 15% is 3 to 5 years old. Players older than 5 years are just 20% of the player base, which is quite high for a MMO, but still means that EVE's bread and butter are younger characters, not the older ones.

So CCP are just betting that we are wealthy and invested enough to profit from and bear with this change; and even if they lose, say, 5% of us, that's a 1% dip in subscriptions scattered over as many months or years will take for our susbcriptions to lapse.

Of course, that 20% of old farts maybe are 80% of the social networking in EVE; teachers, FCs, alliance leaders, bloggers, CSM, tool developers... the 3rd party people who makes the game work despite the abysmal lack of documentation, tools and support from CCP. EVE would sink into chaos without those people, and that's exactly the threat of the F2P me and other players are sensing beyond the horizon. There's nothing that can rip appart a community of volunteers as being burdened with managing the F2P Horde.
CiCiP Sux2
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#108 - 2016-02-17 10:11:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CiCiP Sux2
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Johan Civire wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Thankfully one can count on the Marketing guys getting things right... Lol

Advertisement on the Launcher:

FLY THE SHIP OF YOUR DREAMS!
PILE ON THE SKILLPOINTS!
WITH SKILL INJECTORS

Translation:

PAID A SUBSCRIPTION, GOT NO BACON!
PAY AGAIN AND GET BACON!
PRESS BUTTON



you talk as if everybody has 100B isk and/or willing to spend $1000 in one go.

simple question, can you give me an "educated" guess of how many, let's say, out of 10 newbros who join EvE at a time will dish out RL $ to buy injectors? lol


Clash of clans "kugh" you want more proof? See every damn facebook "game". How many people to many! You think eve is difference now than clash of clans? think again.

However like i say before in a other post. SP do not make you pro. So the worries is not you but the guy that have no clue how to play there eve. So its more like 50/50 debate. One hand people can stop using subscribe and waiting for ccp to release something new. And then come back buy some injectors en be done with it. In the other hand you can still use the old system compare to the new system "injectors" it cost you less. Unless you got to many isk to waste.

So people think SP matters! But it is not. And no iam not happy with it.


are you telling me that a person who likes a very dumb game like clash of clans will even consider a difficult and harsh game like EvE? do you? i admit that i have it on my phone and i play it rarely, but i can't start to imagine any decent EvE player to take CoC seriously let alone pay for it.

so again, how many newbros would you think would buy and inject in order for them to fly HACS/T3 Cruisers on day 1?
IronBank is an outlier, everybody knows this scenario will come but those that know better know that this is irrelevant.

I think you under estimating the human psyche, I know guys who had enough of Eve's bullshit and nerfing and keep f...ing up the game in the name of newbies and ****.... to Clash of Clans in defiance. And the worse thing is they haven't come back, have allowed there characters subscriptions to lapse, and one guy I know personally had 6 active separate accounts.(to put that into perspective EVE that's 6 newbies who where subscribing for years have left, gone, flown the coop!) will they be back? ....who knows....
I'm sorry but there is no "game logic" but only "commercial logic" behind buying with RL money injectors which then abstract 500k SP no matter how much SP the character has and then only inject a fraction of the SP that was abstracted. If EVE was NOT on a money only scam they would have also tiered the injector abstraction as well.
RIPPED OFF!!!!!
One more thing - this is the ONLY GAME that exists where there is a monthly subscription and player acquire "gem" like tokens to speed up training. So in my book me and all of you are the "stupid" ones for accepting this!
This completely has changed the games dynamics and it definitely is not for the benefit of ingame experience!
Reiisha
#109 - 2016-02-17 10:12:02 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
Yonis Kador wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
something about freshness and legs up

Lol

Seriously, it's almost a shame to see the 1st real dev response to sp trading in quite some time rest on a cliché RE: this feature not being pay to "win." Semantics. We understand that skill > sp. But it's certainly pay for "opportunities more quickly than poor scrubs who can't afford to shell out $$$ or anyone else who doesn't participate."

The example I keep falling back on (and this is just my personal story; I'm sure many people have one with longer trains) is that for years I wanted to fly a Damnation. I used to 'show info' and admire the hull every few days. Lame and sad yes... but also true. I just thought it was a beautiful ship and wanted one - but the reason why is mostly irrelevant. The point is that this goal drove my game for a really long time. As luck would have it, I crossed the finish line literally days before sp trading went live. How am I not supposed to feel that this years-long goal wasn't devalued when every player in EVE became potentially able to fly one in minutes a few days later? With max gunnery & missile skills in minutes to boot?

It's insane.

What bothers me most is watching veterans who have devoted 8, 10, 13 years to EVE offer countless testimonials that this change hurts their game and for the most part, are being laughed out of the room. People tell them "adapt or die," "HTFU," and "if you don't like it, leave." My favorite is: "this game isn't for everyone." Right. The guy who's been here 13 years isn't "right" for EVE? Isn't it at all worrisome to anyone that we're shedding some of our most devoted players on a gamble that new players "with the attention span of Daffy Duck" will replace them and stick around? What kind of bedazzlements will need to be introduced to keep that kind of player interested? Can that kind of player be retained for 8, 10, 13 years?

I understand the arguments why some folks feel this change was good for the game but as I sit here not playing, unsure of if I even want to invest more time in game, its a tough sell. Every hurdle or obstacle that I faced in the years I've been here can now be easily avoided. It's been made meaningless. And yet people continue to say this "changes nothing." Really? Nothing?

I think it changes everything.

But I also don't see how you undo this horror show without inflicting even worse damage. Which is why, I suppose, we're bleeding vets. It's practically an orchestrated culling to modernize the playerbase for RMT transactions the old guard would never approve.

It's just pretty difficult atm to see any of this being a positive change for EVE. Well, not the EVE I know anyway.

YK



CCP already took care of veterans. You know, 65% of the player base is less than 3 years old. Another 15% is 3 to 5 years old. Players older than 5 years are just 20% of the player base, which is quite high for a MMO, but still means that EVE's bread and butter are younger characters, not the older ones.

So CCP are just betting that we are wealthy and invested enough to profit from and bear with this change; and even if they lose, say, 5% of us, that's a 1% dip in subscriptions scattered over as many months or years will take for our susbcriptions to lapse.

Of course, that 20% of old farts maybe are 80% of the social networking in EVE; teachers, FCs, alliance leaders, bloggers, CSM, tool developers... the 3rd party people who makes the game work despite the abysmal lack of documentation, tools and support from CCP. EVE would sink into chaos without those people, and that's exactly the threat of the F2P me and other players are sensing beyond the horizon. There's nothing that can rip appart a community of volunteers as being burdened with managing the F2P Horde.


Those vets bring in the new people, either themselves or with the stories they generate over the years.

Another thing is that, despite the supposed gap, EVE prospered and thrived after 10 years of its release, still growing, something no other MMO has ever done before - Not even WoW, which hit its peak about 4-5 years after its release.

But now, EVE has faltered and subs have been falling for years. Might it have something to do with how stagnant the game has become? Skill injectors may very well be well intentioned to get new players in, but they speak to the crowd which does EVE no favours, namely the same people who bought a level 90 or 100 character in wow to skip the content.

Now, a novel solution would be to just make the 'lower level content' more interesting, but hey, its a company and they only think 3 months ahead because 'shareholders'.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
Perkin Warbeck
Higher Than Everest
#110 - 2016-02-17 10:12:51 UTC
stg slate wrote:
Eli Stan wrote:
Manssell wrote:
Except that the one could click on the show info and see that the 2009 character probably has more skill points, and make a decision accordingly. The edge could be known now it's not.


Do you do that? Look at a character's age before deciding how/whether to engage in PvP? I don't. I look at what they're flying. What friends they have the next system over. Whether they've brought in a boosting T3. I never give even a first thought to their age.


Armchair PVPers and spaceship bushido adherants do this, actual PVPers not so much. If you make assumptions based on people's character's age then you die. Check age when you have the kill-mail.


Now its all about the killmarks...
Fozzy Dorsai
Friendly but Irritating
#111 - 2016-02-17 10:19:59 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
Almost 3000 words. A pity that your great work will be locked for ranting soon.




There's a simple flaw with any "Pay To Win" argument against skill trading.

A pilot who knows what they're doing with a Rifter and a 2 skillpoints can end the world for a clueless player with 300 million skillpoints. Put the average driver in an F1 car and they're not going to have the first idea of how to drive it, despite having a driver's license.

All skillpoints do is unlock the ability to fly a given hull with a given weapon, or utilize a given module to a particular end. Using the ship and modules is where the skill lies, and is the key to victory or failure. That's what defines you as an EVE player.

Being able to trade skillpoints and freely respec your character changes very little. What it does is allow people to keep their gameplay fresh and try new things, or gives new players a leg up to be able to try new things faster if they choose to do so.



Smile


I really don't have a dog in this hunt as the only PVP I do is either trading or dying; but I see one flaw in your reasoning that this is not Pay To Win:
Indeed, if you take an experienced low-skilled player vs an inexperienced high-skilled player, more often than not (and except for luck, pretty much always) the experienced player will dominate a fight. But consider the experienced low-skilled player vs the experienced high-skilled player. In that case, the ability to target a little quicker, run a little faster, hit a little harder, or have a little further reach can make a rather big difference. So for players of essentially equal ability the two main differences will be luck and skills. Injectors allow the richer player to have more skills and thus a tilt in the overall outcomes of EVE to those with the means to obtain those skills.
Now, this doesn't mean that money is the only way to tilt that field on one's favor with skills. You can trade time for money either through waiting on your skill queue, or spending more time logged in mining or trading or scamming or missioning to obtain the funds needed to inject skills. But that still leaves the ability to do all that and add money to give yourself a better chance of winning.
While I do think the tilt will be relatively small and relatively inconsequential, it will still be there.
Sol epoch
HELVEGEN
#112 - 2016-02-17 10:44:33 UTC
This all does seem like a kick in the teeth for loyalty and perseverance from CCP and leaves a bitter taste in the mouth!
Memphis Baas
#113 - 2016-02-17 10:56:34 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
65% 15% 20% 5% 1% 20% 80%


Do you have a source for all these statistics?
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
#114 - 2016-02-17 11:06:40 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Reiisha wrote:


Skills in EVE are not analogous to levels in other games. They are core to the concept of the game itself. There is no max level in EVE (or at least, it should not be attainable), and there's no reason why there should be one. The skill system in EVE forces the player to learn some core lessons about the game, how it works and how it wants you to think. It teaches you the values of patience, planning and the consequences of your choices at a very personal level, to your character.




The skills only open up possibilities as well as giving an advantage as in the accumulation of percentages (i.e. 2% more damage from a particular weapon type).

Other than that the skills are unimportant. It's a sandbox, being a sandbox it's what you do with the skills that is important.

All these "2% bonuses" add up. For example, gunnery skills at level 5 give you:

controlled bursts: -25% cap need for turrets
gunnery: +10% fire rate
motion prediction: +25% tracking speed
rapid firing: +20% fire rate
sharpshooter: +25% optimal
surgical strike: +15% damage
trajectory analysis: +25% falloff

weapon specific skill: +25% damage
weapon specific skill for T2: +10 damage + access to T2 guns and ammo


Having max or high skills makes winning a fight much easier. They guy who spends cash on skill injectors definitly has an advantage over the guy who can't spend extra cash.
Avvy
Doomheim
#115 - 2016-02-17 11:22:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Algarion Getz wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Reiisha wrote:


Skills in EVE are not analogous to levels in other games. They are core to the concept of the game itself. There is no max level in EVE (or at least, it should not be attainable), and there's no reason why there should be one. The skill system in EVE forces the player to learn some core lessons about the game, how it works and how it wants you to think. It teaches you the values of patience, planning and the consequences of your choices at a very personal level, to your character.




The skills only open up possibilities as well as giving an advantage as in the accumulation of percentages (i.e. 2% more damage from a particular weapon type).

Other than that the skills are unimportant. It's a sandbox, being a sandbox it's what you do with the skills that is important.

All these "2% bonuses" add up. For example, gunnery skills at level 5 give you:

controlled bursts: -25% cap need for turrets
gunnery: +10% fire rate
motion prediction: +25% tracking speed
rapid firing: +20% fire rate
sharpshooter: +25% optimal
surgical strike: +15% damage
trajectory analysis: +25% falloff

weapon specific skill: +25% damage
weapon specific skill for T2: +10 damage + access to T2 guns and ammo


Having max or high skills makes winning a fight much easier. They guy who spends cash on skill injectors definitly has an advantage over the guy who can't spend extra cash.



Yes, except even new players won't take long to get skills to level 3, at least those that don't require a level 5 before being able to train the next skill.

But most new players won't be doing combat PvP to start with.


All sp injectors do is open up possibilities they do give an advantage, but they still have to learn how to play.

The advantage isn't something you can only get by paying real money for as you can still gain sp by just adding them to the skill queue. What I mean here is just by subscribing you can gain sp so in time you have an advantage over those that are new.


What we don't know is how many new players will actually use them at the start.

Plus I don't really see an issue as this game has been running for 13 years and those new players didn't before and won't now stand a chance against an older player that knows what they are doing.


Only issue might be in how new players perceive the game now as some don't like to spend cash, but then most of those won't play EVE anyway as it's subscription based.
Imalia Bloodlines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#116 - 2016-02-17 11:23:17 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
Almost 3000 words. A pity that your great work will be locked for ranting soon.


I don't really think this is a rant to be honest, and many of these points were discussed internally before the feature went live, or was fully fleshed out.

I've also been with EVE for 13 years, ironically my first reaction to skillpoint trading was negative too, but it was a knee-jerk reaction from a 13 year veteran of the game who thought a change so fundamental would destroy everything he loved about EVE.

I'm happy to say that I was wrong, and after I looked at the situation from what I consider to be a sensible point of view that came after my initial reaction, the rationale for it kind of fell into place and I now understand the system.

There's a simple flaw with any "Pay To Win" argument against skill trading.

A pilot who knows what they're doing with a Rifter and a 2 skillpoints can end the world for a clueless player with 300 million skillpoints. Put the average driver in an F1 car and they're not going to have the first idea of how to drive it, despite having a driver's license.

All skillpoints do is unlock the ability to fly a given hull with a given weapon, or utilize a given module to a particular end. Using the ship and modules is where the skill lies, and is the key to victory or failure. That's what defines you as an EVE player.

Being able to trade skillpoints and freely respec your character changes very little. What it does is allow people to keep their gameplay fresh and try new things, or gives new players a leg up to be able to try new things faster if they choose to do so.

That's my take on it anyway, as a 13 year vet of EVE.

Smile

Why is everyone talking about newbie spending a lot and not utilizing properly his SP, is this your argument?

What heppens when powerful player buys a lot of SP for a lot of alts and expands his power by 100%? He pushes back player who can not afford it. BAM! Please continue to tell us this is not pay to win, I will be listening
Al Nomadi
Morawins
#117 - 2016-02-17 11:29:36 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:


controlled bursts: -25% cap need for turrets
gunnery: +10% fire rate
motion prediction: +25% tracking speed
rapid firing: +20% fire rate
sharpshooter: +25% optimal
surgical strike: +15% damage
trajectory analysis: +25% falloff

weapon specific skill: +25% damage
weapon specific skill for T2: +10 damage + access to T2 guns and ammo


Having max or high skills makes winning a fight much easier. They guy who spends cash on skill injectors definitly has an advantage over the guy who can't spend extra cash.


QFT
Even if all that "SP does not win fight, experince does" would be true, semi-newbee killed by youngeer char in the same ship but +70% more firepower due to SP injected, will be much more frustraiting, then to be killed by veteran in better ship. It is just plain not fair to lure ppl into role playing MMO and that ruin any role progress. "Look, I played less than you, but you could not even scratch my armor. Ha-ha, it is because you sucks!" That will be result of many duels in rookie systems now...

First pay-to-win feature does not mean the last one. But it is the first one, accepted by eve community and more will follow.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#118 - 2016-02-17 11:33:37 UTC
Imalia Bloodlines wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Demolishar wrote:
Almost 3000 words. A pity that your great work will be locked for ranting soon.


I don't really think this is a rant to be honest, and many of these points were discussed internally before the feature went live, or was fully fleshed out.

I've also been with EVE for 13 years, ironically my first reaction to skillpoint trading was negative too, but it was a knee-jerk reaction from a 13 year veteran of the game who thought a change so fundamental would destroy everything he loved about EVE.

I'm happy to say that I was wrong, and after I looked at the situation from what I consider to be a sensible point of view that came after my initial reaction, the rationale for it kind of fell into place and I now understand the system.

There's a simple flaw with any "Pay To Win" argument against skill trading.

A pilot who knows what they're doing with a Rifter and a 2 skillpoints can end the world for a clueless player with 300 million skillpoints. Put the average driver in an F1 car and they're not going to have the first idea of how to drive it, despite having a driver's license.

All skillpoints do is unlock the ability to fly a given hull with a given weapon, or utilize a given module to a particular end. Using the ship and modules is where the skill lies, and is the key to victory or failure. That's what defines you as an EVE player.

Being able to trade skillpoints and freely respec your character changes very little. What it does is allow people to keep their gameplay fresh and try new things, or gives new players a leg up to be able to try new things faster if they choose to do so.

That's my take on it anyway, as a 13 year vet of EVE.

Smile

Why is everyone talking about newbie spending a lot and not utilizing properly his SP, is this your argument?

What heppens when powerful player buys a lot of SP for a lot of alts and expands his power by 100%? He pushes back player who can not afford it. BAM! Please continue to tell us this is not pay to win, I will be listening


You sure only 100%? How did you count that?

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Avvy
Doomheim
#119 - 2016-02-17 11:38:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Avvy
Imalia Bloodlines wrote:

Why is everyone talking about newbie spending a lot and not utilizing properly his SP, is this your argument?

What heppens when powerful player buys a lot of SP for a lot of alts and expands his power by 100%? He pushes back player who can not afford it. BAM! Please continue to tell us this is not pay to win, I will be listening



People that have multiple accounts and have played for a long time already have that capability, so what does it matter if a few more can do it?

Ever seen those that multibox in PvP they make a lousy PvPer, sure they can kill a target quickly, but they discharge the weapons all on the same target. I've been in a team in another game where we occasionally had a multiboxer, I'd guarantee we lost everytime he was with us.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#120 - 2016-02-17 11:40:34 UTC
The thing that bothers me most about the new skill trading system is:we now have a way to grind directly for skillpoints: Farm missions/incursions, sell LP store stuff, mine, buy skill injectors. Grindable skillpoints in this kind of game are a no-no.

A signature :o