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Opinions about the current state of The Eve Character Bazaar

First post
Author
Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#21 - 2016-02-15 20:11:51 UTC
If character bazaar was killed, I would laugh at how it meant all SP would be funneled through extractors

AND

it meant owners would have to drain their characters themselves. I know I couldn't do it.
David Davaham
Deep Blue Logistics
#22 - 2016-02-16 06:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: David Davaham
SOOOOOOO yeah, I still have not heard back from CCP on my support ticket, so in the meantime I have continued to work on the site. Below I am going to paste some screenshots and a new poll to help me decide which layout to go with for the bazaar. Let me know what you think.

Character Page Layout:
http://prntscr.com/a3v3az

Screens of the tabs at the bottom:


Finally, a screenshot of the page where users will be able to filter the results based on certain criteria. Now the filter has not been built yet. I was working on more of the base functionality. (i.e. account settings, API pulls, page layout)

I will be starting on the filter once I can get more characters in the database (i.e. Test Dummies/Beta Tester).

http://prnt.sc/a3v4zs

As for what I said about multiple layouts for the main portion of Bazaar page, I really do not like the other layout I had, so I am not going to post it. It makes the screen way to cluttered.

Here is the new poll, please vote and let me know what you think.

New Poll: http://www.poll-maker.com/poll582615xE6554985-25

Developer of EVEmail

David Davaham
Deep Blue Logistics
#23 - 2016-02-16 21:44:35 UTC
Bumping for visibility. Would really like to get others opinions

Developer of EVEmail

Sturmwolke
#24 - 2016-02-17 01:48:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
David Davaham wrote:

I recently started a project in which I want to make it easier for member to buy and sell their characters. The intention of the system is to allow an almost eBay fashioned bidding wars to take place in addition to tons of other features. I am not quite ready to release all of the details (because i am still coming up with them :-D ), but I would like to get some insight into features that the community would like to see in the system.

All transactions should be recorded on CCP's EVE forum for posterity*. A proper paper trail involving character transfers has been forever neglected by CCP (what the hell?). The current procedures via the forums is a duct-taped measure which is outdated, clunky and unverifiable to the general public. No 3rd party should be allowed to host records pertaining to characters transfers as this creates problems with abuse, mediation and enforcement i.e. it fundamentally goes beyond CCP's control.

That said, no real isk is involved anyway (since it transfers directly to characters). Your effort can only be monetized through donations or affiliated links. Charging isk commission per transaction is probably allowable but that diverges from "easy" and converges on "complex". At that point, it competes with the forum .... which is Free.

*as simple as generating an auto message (with unique hash identifier) with pertinent details confirming closed/successful bid for either buyer/seller to copy-paste onto the forum thread.
David Davaham
Deep Blue Logistics
#25 - 2016-02-17 02:47:54 UTC  |  Edited by: David Davaham
Sturmwolke wrote:
David Davaham wrote:

I recently started a project in which I want to make it easier for member to buy and sell their characters. The intention of the system is to allow an almost eBay fashioned bidding wars to take place in addition to tons of other features. I am not quite ready to release all of the details (because i am still coming up with them :-D ), but I would like to get some insight into features that the community would like to see in the system.

All transactions should be recorded on CCP's EVE forum for posterity*. A proper paper trail involving character transfers has been forever neglected by CCP (what the hell?). The current procedures via the forums is a duct-taped measure which is outdated, clunky and unverifiable to the general public. No 3rd party should be allowed to host records pertaining to characters transfers as this creates problems with abuse, mediation and enforcement i.e. it fundamentally goes beyond CCP's control.

That said, no real isk is involved anyway (since it transfers directly to characters). Your effort can only be monetized through donations or affiliated links. Charging isk commission per transaction is probably allowable but that diverges from "easy" and converges on "complex". At that point, it competes with the forum .... which is Free.

*as simple as generating an auto message (with unique hash identifier) with pertinent details confirming closed/successful bid for either buyer/seller to copy-paste onto the forum thread.



Hey Man,

Thanks for your feedback. Let me address some of the concerns you raised

Sturmwolke wrote:
All transactions should be recorded on CCP's EVE forum for posterity*. A proper paper trail involving character transfers has been forever neglected by CCP


I completely agree with you. Granted I will be a Third Party, but the data will be better managed and CCP WILL BE ABLE to access the data at any time upon request. They merely need to establish contact via an ingame mail or some sort of vetted email address. Now to be honest, the data I will be storing as anybody can access it with an API Key. As long as they are able to get the code from the owner of the character.

Sturmwolke wrote:

A proper paper trail involving character transfers has been forever neglected by CCP (what the hell?). The current procedures via the forums is a duct-taped measure which is outdated, clunky and unverifiable to the general public.


Another reason as to why I am doing this. Not only will a record of buys and sell be attached to each account, so will a record of how many times a particular character has been sold or bought and WHO originally owned them/created them.

Sturmwolke wrote:

No 3rd party should be allowed to host records pertaining to characters transfers as this creates problems with abuse, mediation and enforcement


Why not if the Third Party can take this burden off of CCP?

to be continued....

Developer of EVEmail

David Davaham
Deep Blue Logistics
#26 - 2016-02-17 02:51:40 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:

That said, no real isk is involved anyway (since it transfers directly to characters). Your effort can only be monetized through donations or affiliated links. Charging isk commission per transaction is probably allowable but that diverges from "easy" and converges on "complex". At that point, it competes with the forum .... which is Free.


The site will be free to use to EVE Online Players as long as they have an active account. There will be a page where players can get information on how to donate to the site's/server cost of maintenance/upkeep.

Quote:

*as simple as generating an auto message (with unique hash identifier) with pertinent details confirming closed/successful bid for either buyer/seller to copy-paste onto the forum thread.


You read my mind man. The code has not been written yet, but this and more are in the works.

Keep the posts coming guys. I am at work and board as fuq.... :-D

Developer of EVEmail

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#27 - 2016-02-17 05:57:35 UTC
David Davaham wrote:

The site will be free to use to EVE Online Players as long as they have an active account. There will be a page where players can get information on how to donate to the site's/server cost of maintenance/upkeep.
I think that's where you might run into some issues. I believe CCP will allow a site to make use of their property for ISK donations, but draw a line at monetizing it.

Though I have to say they've been pretty selective in enforcing this rule.

In any case, talk to a GM about it and see what they say because I am no authority on that topic and could be completely wrong.

Mr Epeen Cool
Sturmwolke
#28 - 2016-02-17 07:06:26 UTC
David Davaham wrote:

I completely agree with you. Granted I will be a Third Party, but the data will be better managed and CCP WILL BE ABLE to access the data at any time upon request. They merely need to establish contact via an ingame mail or some sort of vetted email address..

CCP won't require any of your references, they can accesss the transfer details without any help. The character bazaaar forum posts just makes it easier to track and highlight any foul play to the public. For the sake of argument, debasing CCP to the role of a client to something which they are in complete control of is an absurd idea ... and no, the forum duct-tape stays. The proposed website should serve as a subordinate to the forum duct-tape, not the other way round. The EVE forum is a constant in the equation, your website or any other 3rd party sites are simply variables. I'll recommend a Darwin Award nomination who still doesn't get the idea.

David Davaham wrote:

Now to be honest, the data I will be storing as anybody can access it with an API Key. As long as they are able to get the code from the owner of the character

For a simple bidding site, the only things necessary are the SSO login for third party sites and a limited API for character in question (to view the char stats).

If you're going down the route of having clients commit any other EXTRA APIs or any other personal identifier to your proposed website, pause and think for second. The act of using your website already reveals their associated IPs and browser information that can tallied with the SSO logins (if they didn't undertake any anonymity measures). Who is in control of this information? You, CCP or anyone else? It's an open secret that alliances keep a tab on personal information from websites which they control to form an intelligence database. No assurances from anyone (well, maybe except Chribba) will convince there won't be any misuse.

End of the day, from a Machiavellian standpoint, owning such websites generates a gold mine of information (those extras hidden from the public). Since CCP half-assed character transfers, it will give an advantage whomever is in control of these details. This is thorny issue that CCP needs to be careful with, lest it gives reason for unecessary outrage, accusations and drama in the future.

David Davaham wrote:

Why not if the Third Party can take this burden off of CCP?

see above.
David Davaham
Deep Blue Logistics
#29 - 2016-02-17 07:20:41 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
David Davaham wrote:

The site will be free to use to EVE Online Players as long as they have an active account. There will be a page where players can get information on how to donate to the site's/server cost of maintenance/upkeep.
I think that's where you might run into some issues. I believe CCP will allow a site to make use of their property for ISK donations, but draw a line at monetizing it.

Though I have to say they've been pretty selective in enforcing this rule.

In any case, talk to a GM about it and see what they say because I am no authority on that topic and could be completely wrong.

Mr Epeen Cool


EVE-Skillplan.net

A website that aggregates player Skills and assist with building well structured skill plans has a Support This Project webpage, as I listed above and they are going strong.

Developer of EVEmail

David Davaham
Deep Blue Logistics
#30 - 2016-02-17 07:43:32 UTC
I am kind of doing this out of order, I apologize. First the part about API Keys

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6342352#post6342352

David Davaham wrote:
Pirate Aussie wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
I voted yes, but to keep it on the forums, as selling characters helps to increase forum traffic. I'm sure that there could be some way to improve the bidding mechanic within the forum software.


Not only that, but doing any type of auctions off-forums could be--and often is--construed as a violation of the EULA. It's not uncommon for the seller to see a suspension/ban for doing it. On top of that, if you sell the character, the buyer has no actual recourse if it turns into a scam.


I am glad this topic was brought up. The system that i am coding is very limited in what you can actually do to modify the data. Other than a Ad Title and Description, and the starting bid and buyout prices, the users will have no interaction the actual data. Actually, those four values will be the only data that the seller will be able to write to the database except for the API Information for the Char being sold at the beginning of the process. The ability to scam will be almost nill. The validation will be tight, you must be able to provide a very specific API Key in order for the system to work. This rules out former Corporation CEO's from using you Full API Key to try to scam the system. We do not accept full API Keys. The system does not use Eveboard either so that CEO trying to use that method has be X'd out as well. I wrote a script that does the same thing that Eve Board does utilizing a very specifically formatted API Key because I do not want ANY suspicion as to what we are trying to do here.


This addresses some of the issues members may have about the collection of information that is not necessary for the site to function. After much testing, I have been able to narrow my needs down to these two API Keys.

The first one is required for creating an account on the website. It gives access to information that is already accessible from within the game on your Show Info screen as well as the date at which your subscription expires. Per CCP Rules, accounts that do not have an active subscription cannot access the forums, nor will you be able to log into the website to create/modify your ads.
[url]https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/CreatePredefined?accessMask=41943040[/url]


This one is little bit more detailed. It gives access to your character sheet, character info, and yes they are different, account status or the account the character is on, balance of your wallet, your skill queue and detailed information about the skill that is currently being training. All of these are necessary to ensure that the Character being sold/bought complies with CCP's rules and regs for the Bazaar.
[url]https://community.eveonline.com/support/api-key/CreatePredefined?accessMask=50724873[/url]

Sturmwolke wrote:
... and no, the forum duct-tape stays.


Excuse me sir but I NEVER insinuated that i wanted my bazaar to replace the forum based bazaar. I just merely stated that the data will be better managed.

Sturmwolke wrote:
For the sake of argument, debasing CCP to the role of a client to something which they are in complete control of is an absurd idea


I also never attempted to degrade CCP to role of a client to me. This is insulting at most since i am literally a client of their's (i.e. Subscribing several accounts a month) and I am doing this because of my love of programming and the challenge of putting something like this together. I just stated that, if for any reason, they needed to reference the data that I collected through the process of a bidding war or something, they would have access to it. I meant that i would not try to withhold any of the data I collect. In addition to that, the data that I collect comes from them already. They would only reference me for maybe bidding records at most or maybe my version of the data I have because it is modified slightly.

I think that just about covers everything :-D

Developer of EVEmail

Rain6637
Simulacra and Simulation
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2016-02-17 13:17:37 UTC
I like this idea. I think it fills a gap between the clunky forum format on Eve-O, and the lack of a granular search function of eveboard. I can't help thinking it's just come at an unfortunate time when character sale prices are a flat 500 million ISK per million SP (goddamn) due to skill extraction.
David Davaham
Deep Blue Logistics
#32 - 2016-02-20 00:37:59 UTC
Good News Everybody!!!!!

The site is finally at a point where I feel comfortable releasing the site publically. I have made a post in the EVE Technology Forum. Please report any issues, feedback, and feature requests to this forum thread.

EVE Character Bazaar URL: http://charbaz.douglaswebdev.net/

Please let me know what everybody thinks. I am of course still working on the overall appearance of the site.

Developer of EVEmail

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