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First Maxed Eve account.

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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#541 - 2016-02-16 22:55:30 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Hani Tian wrote:
Feledain wrote:
What he did is good for the game as a whole.
Many skill points have been lost, that means the remaining SP become more valuable because there are fewer in the game.

And what did he realy gain?
Can he have more research or factory jobs then anybody else?
Does he more damge in any ship?
Can he mine more?
Can he jump further?
Does his ship fly faster, more cargo or anything?

That was no "investment" he bought something to brag about.


Same thing I'm thinking. Who is stupid enough to spend 1.7 trillion isk on this, for what?
To be first?
To get people to use his gambling site?
For the 30,000 views on EB?
To stir up controversy?

I can think of a whole lot more, but you should have the idea.

Mr Epeen Cool


It's like a gold plated Ferrari, isn't it ?

You don't get a gold plated Ferrari for the performance (it'd be slower, cos of the weight of gold), or as an investment (who'd buy a used one?), or any kind of practical reason.

You get a gold plated Ferrari, to show off the fact that you can afford to get a gold plated Ferrari.

Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
Neuntausend
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#542 - 2016-02-16 23:00:04 UTC
stg slate wrote:
Neuntausend wrote:

Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful. Also, what about those who are not us and therefore not spacerich?


I remember one day 1 on goonswarm people kept throwing huge piles of ISK at me even though all I could fly was a coercer. I was a billionaire and I never asked for a dime and even told people to stop donating me ISK.

On the upside I flew a pimpin coercer in every fleet battle i was in, because why the **** not?


Yeah, that's just us being us. As usual, goons will be fine. We always are.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#543 - 2016-02-16 23:05:10 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
The insistence to train doctrine ships has always been there in the serious alliances. At least it was with EXE. Back in the day it was "do not fly a BS if you did not have T2 guns". The reason put forward were manifold, but I'll list 2 points.

1. If you fly a ship other than the doctrine the FC cannot do what he wants because of varying ranges/DPS. Kitchen sink fleets are always beaten by doctrine fleets (assuming similar size).

2. The alliance and its leadership have worked, with the help of line members, to have space to use and one of the requirements is to actively work towards training doctrine ships.

The idea, that this demand will suddenly appear is misleading, IMO, in that it has already been there.


Alliances have doctrines - of course. But without the possibility to just inject SP whenever, one can only change the doctrine every so often to allow the players to catch up, and typically we get a bit of a warning beforehand so we can at least train T2 guns or a certain hull in time. But a day may come where Alliances switch doctrines on a whim because players can just buy the skills they need.

Now, with us being us, I wouldn't be surprised to see Alliance discounts on SP Injectors or SP handouts for newbees, which would be nice and even somewhat acceptable, but also stressful.


That is great in theory, but like military plans, theory often does not survive when it meets reality (at least in it's initial formulation).

The problem is 1 injector is not unreasonable. However, getting into a brand new doctrine ship one has not trained for will likely cost way, way more than 1 injector or even 2 or 3. More like10 or 20 which is starting to become a pretty significant investment.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#544 - 2016-02-16 23:27:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Pandora Bokks
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.

Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice.

Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.


AS soon as you explain to me exactly what a maxed character can do that an army of alt can't. Especially since with the current diminishing return of SP injection, you can have a "perfect" army for less than a "perfect" character.


- He builds Marauders 1% quicker than my Indie alt and has access to 1 research agent more - also he can produce things that need astronautic engineering skills
- He has higher shield resists on passive hardeners than my main and can jump in a titan, and his damage rapairs quicker with paste. Also his Cruise Missiles do higher damage and he uncloaks 1 sec faster.
- He has connections with mining and distribution agents
- he can modifiy buy orders at a range 5 jumps more than my Jita trader

How will I ever be able to compete against such superhero? No point in trying, best to give up and leave.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#545 - 2016-02-16 23:29:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Valerie Valate wrote:


It's like a gold plated Ferrari, isn't it ?

You don't get a gold plated Ferrari for the performance (it'd be slower, cos of the weight of gold), or as an investment (who'd buy a used one?), or any kind of practical reason.

You get a gold plated Ferrari, to show off the fact that you can afford to get a gold plated Ferrari.


Its more like this.
Avvy
Doomheim
#546 - 2016-02-16 23:32:06 UTC
Pandora Bokks wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.

Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice.

Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.


AS soon as you explain to me exactly what a maxed character can do that an army of alt can't. Especially since with the current diminishing return of SP injection, you can have a "perfect" army for less than a "perfect" character.


- He builds Marauders 1% quicker than my Indie alt and has access to 1 research agent more - also he can produce things that need astronautic engineering skills
- He has higher shield resists on passive hardeners than my main and can jump in a titan, and his damage rapairs quicker with paste. Also his Cruise Missiles do higher damage and he uncloaks 1 sec faster.
- He has connections with mining and distribution agents
- he can modifiy buy orders at a range 5 jumps more than my Jita trader

How will I ever be able to compete against such superhero? No point in trying, best to give up and leave.



How did you compete when you were new?

Chances are he probably won't even use it for those purposes.
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
#547 - 2016-02-16 23:33:43 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Pandora Bokks wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Avvy wrote:
Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.

Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice.

Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.


AS soon as you explain to me exactly what a maxed character can do that an army of alt can't. Especially since with the current diminishing return of SP injection, you can have a "perfect" army for less than a "perfect" character.


- He builds Marauders 1% quicker than my Indie alt and has access to 1 research agent more - also he can produce things that need astronautic engineering skills
- He has higher shield resists on passive hardeners than my main and can jump in a titan, and his damage rapairs quicker with paste. Also his Cruise Missiles do higher damage and he uncloaks 1 sec faster.
- He has connections with mining and distribution agents
- he can modifiy buy orders at a range 5 jumps more than my Jita trader

How will I ever be able to compete against such superhero? No point in trying, best to give up and leave.



How did you compete when you were new?

Chances are he probably won't even use it for those purposes.


Damn, forgot to put the sarcasm sign up
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#548 - 2016-02-16 23:37:28 UTC
Pandora Bokks wrote:

Damn, forgot to put the sarcasm sign up


Congratulations, all you have done is confirmed all these anti vax folks worst fears.
Avvy
Doomheim
#549 - 2016-02-16 23:39:34 UTC
Pandora Bokks wrote:



Damn, forgot to put the sarcasm sign up



It's your portrait that threw me, you look so serious.
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#550 - 2016-02-16 23:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Durgis Athonille wrote:
Quote:
Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example.
Basically you pay for your subs with real cash and the option to buy game time with plex stops, but of course you can buy plex with isk to do the other stuff it allows you to do. Therefore income from actual subs should increase quite alot.


This.
If you are not paying real money to play this game then you are not contributing to the bottom line.
If you want the sandbox you have to help pay for the sand.
New players pay real money and they want to fly the ship they want when they want.
If they want to start in a Navy Comet or whatever they can pay or the skills to do so and learn to fly the ship they want to fly.
How does that negatively effect anyone?
If they stay in the game for 3 months then that's 3 months subscription and the money spent to train the skills and for Plex to buy the ship, plus all the fun they'll have fitting and flying and practicing.
Oh yeah, and they might like it and stay.

I can't tell if you're trolling or serious...

Just in case you are serious I want to point out that every single plex on the market was bought with real money. No one is playing for free as CCP was paid hard currency for every single one of those plexes.


EVERY.... SINGLE... PLEX!!

So could we stop that stupid?
Forum Toon
Doomheim
#551 - 2016-02-16 23:59:40 UTC
I read a few of the opinions to here and there and what I think about extractors\injectors is twofold,
1. It's rather great as imho you can lose bit of skillpoints (from skills you didn't used) to relocate them to skills you actually want.
It's perfect for everyone which tried mining and got burned.

2. OTOH it allows people which have too many skills and train too much an opportunity to extract extra points to use on their alts or give friends some boost.
wouldn't it be great for a friend starting eve get one of those skipping the first 3 days of training the pure basics and jump into the action?

________________________________________

About having all possible skills, what's the point? who's going to actually do everything with single character?
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
#552 - 2016-02-17 00:02:39 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Just in case you are serious I want to point out that every single plex on the market was bought with real money. No one is playing for free as CCP was paid hard currency for every single one of those plexes.


EVERY.... SINGLE... PLEX!!


Hmmm, not quite but you're probably pretty close. CCP does 'give out' PLEX from time to time, and players can earn it with the Hours for PLEX program (if it's still going), so not all was earned with cash. Some with work, some as reward or marketing giveaways, etc.

I'm not debating your point of the vast majority of the PLEX out there, just cautioning that being 100% accurate before tossing out invective is a wise thing.

8 Golden Rules of EVE • EVE is entirely PvP
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#553 - 2016-02-17 00:06:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
If CCP ships drop plex, thats like them giving a month of subscription away for free, and if you look at the volume of plexes on the market they probably represent a microscopic proportion. Event microscopic is probably an exaggeration.

The hours for plex does still exist and has nothing to do with earning plex. It is simply 4 hours to get your ass to jita and buy a plex rather than subscribing with your bank deets. You are still buying a plex that someone else has payed RL cash for.
Durgis Athonille
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#554 - 2016-02-17 00:17:27 UTC
Kinete Jenius wrote:
Durgis Athonille wrote:
Quote:
Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example.
Basically you pay for your subs with real cash and the option to buy game time with plex stops, but of course you can buy plex with isk to do the other stuff it allows you to do. Therefore income from actual subs should increase quite alot.


This.
If you are not paying real money to play this game then you are not contributing to the bottom line.
If you want the sandbox you have to help pay for the sand.
New players pay real money and they want to fly the ship they want when they want.
If they want to start in a Navy Comet or whatever they can pay or the skills to do so and learn to fly the ship they want to fly.
How does that negatively effect anyone?
If they stay in the game for 3 months then that's 3 months subscription and the money spent to train the skills and for Plex to buy the ship, plus all the fun they'll have fitting and flying and practicing.
Oh yeah, and they might like it and stay.

I can't tell if you're trolling or serious...

Just in case you are serious I want to point out that every single plex on the market was bought with real money. No one is playing for free as CCP was paid hard currency for every single one of those plexes.


EVERY.... SINGLE... PLEX!!

So could we stop that stupid?


Since there are plenty of things that PLEX can be used to buy in the game I think it's a good idea.
Sorry you don't agree.
There really is no substitute for real money in RL, which is incidentally where game companies reside.
I simply don't think that since you're a really good bus passenger that you should ride the bus for free.
Sorry to derail the thread.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program already in progress.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#555 - 2016-02-17 00:17:40 UTC
status is an important consideration in all MMOs. In EvE moreso than most. do people compete in tournament for fun only or to win. being able to pay to beat others in the skillpoint game is obviously going to devalue the game in many peoples minds, irrespective of whether it directly affects ability to do something else such as pvp. whether the change equates to more new subs vs sub attrition is still to be seen.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#556 - 2016-02-17 00:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
...and players can earn it with the Hours for PLEX program (if it's still going), so not all was earned with cash.

What?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#557 - 2016-02-17 01:33:07 UTC
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
CCP does 'give out' PLEX from time to time,
I can assure you that they confiscate more than they give out. They've explained this in the past.

I'd link some posts from various devs on the topic, but I just don't care about the issue enough. You are welcome to use their crappy search function (Now, that's a legitimate complaint) to find them yourself if you are so inclined.

The long and short of it is that they are not creating anything that wasn't already in the game.

Mr Epeen Cool
IronBank
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#558 - 2016-02-17 05:06:54 UTC
Read all 28 Pages and I must say - the salt and tears in here are phenomenal. Cool
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#559 - 2016-02-17 05:15:02 UTC
IronBank wrote:
Read all 28 Pages and I must say - the salt and tears in here are phenomenal. Cool


LOL!

Just in time to stir up the **** as things were starting to slow down.

Well done sir. Well done, indeed. You just guaranteed another 20 pages with that one post.

Mr Epeen Cool
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#560 - 2016-02-17 06:42:20 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
status is an important consideration in all MMOs. In EvE moreso than most.

So you already lost EVE then?

Evil RatKid