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New Capital Logistic - Force Auxiliaries - History repeats itself
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Marius Evo
Crack Babies
Clown Punchers Syndicate
#21 - 2016-02-16 21:12:51 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Have you tested them thoroughly with the new modules?


I haven't tested any of them yet!
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#22 - 2016-02-16 21:14:43 UTC
Marius Evo wrote:
Why do you even make a Gallente and Minmatar variation when they have split rep bonus and no bonus for cap transfer.

It's almost like the FAX are taking over the remote rep roles of their previous carrier counterparts.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#23 - 2016-02-16 21:33:03 UTC
Lykouleon wrote:
Marius Evo wrote:
Why do you even make a Gallente and Minmatar variation when they have split rep bonus and no bonus for cap transfer.

It's almost like the FAX are taking over the remote rep roles of their previous carrier counterparts.


j/k
Well that doesn't make sense!



Moar seriously

There are probably a lot of other changes related to Capital warfare that will influence one's interpretation as well.
I'm not saying this shouldn't be discussed, just be sure to take that into consideration.

To be honest though, the Minmatar Carriers have been the blacksheep for too long. It would be nice if the Minmatar FAX didn't follow suite simply because the Devs can't come up with a better bonus scheme for them.
Marius Evo
Crack Babies
Clown Punchers Syndicate
#24 - 2016-02-16 22:19:36 UTC
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:


To be honest though, the Minmatar Carriers have been the blacksheep for too long. It would be nice if the Minmatar FAX didn't follow suite simply because the Devs can't come up with a better bonus scheme for them.



This! They just keep doing the same...
Marius Evo
Crack Babies
Clown Punchers Syndicate
#25 - 2016-02-17 15:47:34 UTC
Eli Stan wrote:
Marius Evo wrote:
This new layout of the new FAUX are just silly... And we have seen it before.

Why do you even make a Gallente and Minmatar variation when they have split rep bonus and no bonus for cap transfer.


Ill bet that you will see a lot of Apostle (Amarr) and Minokawa (Caldari) FAUX...
And it will stay like that until you once again realises that the bonuses are useless and tweak the other two factions in line with the other two.

Why not do it before you let them into the game? This just feels like a waste of effort...


It's worth remembering that the repping power of the new FAXes outside of Triage will be essentially nil - so no more slowcats. Each FAX providing capital reps is on its own for tank and cap. Think about them this way:

Amarr and Caldari FAXes are all passive - they will have a set amount of tank and remote rep/cap that they can bring to a battlefield, and that's it. They will be exhausted of resources at some point and be useless thereafter.

Gallente and Minmatar FAXes, on the other hand, are active - given enough cap charges, they can provide their level of assistance for as long as they're on the field.

Under different circumstances, each flavor of FAX will have advantages and disadvantages. Amarr and Caldari buffers will be advantageous against high incoming DPS that would overwhelm the active tank of Gallente and Minmatar. But against lower incoming DPS the Gallente and Minmatar FAXes can stay on the field for as long as needed while Amarr and Caldari would eventually run dry.

Which one you bring will depend on what sort of fleet you expect to be engaging. I suspect we'll see a lot of Amarr and Caldari FAXes in large nullsec fleet fights where supers and titans are on the field along with dozens of FAXes, while we'll see a lot of Gallente and Minmatar FAXes in lolsec games where it's just one or two FAXes being dropped.

(I'm not exactly sure how the Gal/Min FAXes not transferring cap will play out, though.)


As all other statements this is spectulative untill tested. But that's not in line with the current use for carriers... And it still don't solve the cap problem for Minmatar and Gallente. No mater how much recharge they have... They ALMOST wont work out of triage!?
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2016-02-17 16:03:01 UTC
Let's not forget one of the stated goals for force auxiliaries was limiting the survivability of a capital gang. That as long as you can break one force auxiliary, you can break a capital gang.

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Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2016-02-17 17:09:09 UTC
Krevnos wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Idk. Triple CASB Lif is going to be the bane of many people for a while.



CCP has indicated CASB's will be limited to one per ship.

Devblog says armor will, haven't heard anything about shield.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#28 - 2016-02-17 17:36:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Rain6637 wrote:
Let's not forget one of the stated goals for force auxiliaries was limiting the survivability of a capital gang. That as long as you can break one force auxiliary, you can break a capital gang.

During discussion about capital ships, few years ago, I have made a comment about possible modifications to the ships, to make valid a situation when you would have ship considered as a king in chess. Having a lot of them would not be gamebreaking, would not give you greater advantages to a situation when there would be one. Seeing how fast can fire be shifted, auxiliaries could be just that. If only they would drop the HP on the capitals.

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Marius Evo
Crack Babies
Clown Punchers Syndicate
#29 - 2016-02-23 13:24:25 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Let's not forget one of the stated goals for force auxiliaries was limiting the survivability of a capital gang. That as long as you can break one force auxiliary, you can break a capital gang.

During discussion about capital ships, few years ago, I have made a comment about possible modifications to the ships, to make valid a situation when you would have ship considered as a king in chess. Having a lot of them would not be gamebreaking, would not give you greater advantages to a situation when there would be one. Seeing how fast can fire be shifted, auxiliaries could be just that. If only they would drop the HP on the capitals.


Do you have a link and is it still valid?
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2016-02-23 15:02:56 UTC
Wormholers and medium sized lowsec alliamces will love the local reps. I have several times been on field with only 1-2 capitals in the entire fight. It does happen.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#31 - 2016-02-23 15:05:48 UTC
The scimitar doesn't have a cap transfer bonus either yet it is still one of the most popular logi ships.

You need to see things in the bigger picture. New Faux =/= old carriers. Despite. The Nidhoggur is actually a very strong triage carrier when used alone and is used in WH space where you can't just dump 100 carriers into the fight.

Another way to look at it is that the large difference in their style will promote difference use of the ships. If it was only a minor difference between them then there would always be one stronger than the other one. While a larger difference will let them shine in different roles.

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Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#32 - 2016-02-23 15:25:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Marius Evo wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Let's not forget one of the stated goals for force auxiliaries was limiting the survivability of a capital gang. That as long as you can break one force auxiliary, you can break a capital gang.

During discussion about capital ships, few years ago, I have made a comment about possible modifications to the ships, to make valid a situation when you would have ship considered as a king in chess. Having a lot of them would not be gamebreaking, would not give you greater advantages to a situation when there would be one. Seeing how fast can fire be shifted, auxiliaries could be just that. If only they would drop the HP on the capitals.


Do you have a link and is it still valid?

Oh, that was so long ago that I anly remember that it was in features and delelopment part and it was players thread about titans. Someone had some issues with them.

Quote:
New Faux =/= old carriers.

I would say new carriers will be a revolution not only in capital ships, but on a bigger scale even. The leaks show that you will have many options with many different sets of fighters. A lot of micromanagement perhaps, but also like a small army of yours.
http://imgur.com/a/wppLG

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Ned Thomas
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2016-02-23 16:37:03 UTC
Erm.....the Minmatar/Gallente logi lines are intended for cap stable fits, the Amarr/Caldari logi lines are intended for cap chain fits. It's been that way forever.

Also, these aren't carriers.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#34 - 2016-02-23 17:10:57 UTC
Marius Evo wrote:


As all other statements this is spectulative untill tested. But that's not in line with the current use for carriers... And it still don't solve the cap problem for Minmatar and Gallente. No mater how much recharge they have... They ALMOST wont work out of triage!?


The phrase, "Effective capital-based remote repair will be limited to Triage only," stylized in bold, and embiggened and everything, was plain as day in the first capital rework dev blog.

With this in mind, the lack of a cap transfer bonus is likely less important than you're making it out to be. They can't effectively remote rep out of triage, and they can't receive remote assistance in triage. A cycle time bonus is also technically stronger than a rep amount bonus, both in literal rep/s and in the less quantifiable "agility" it provides for repairing multiple targets.

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