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Assault missile names

First post
Author
Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#101 - 2012-01-11 09:18:20 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
[There are over 150,000 different npc entities I rather start there

small red cross, medium red cross, large red cross?
a reduction of 50000x !

wait no, agression towards a red cross is forbidden under the geneva convention :/

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#102 - 2012-01-11 09:31:48 UTC
Yulai Convention allows shooting the red cross all day and its only 114 years old unlike the Geneva which by now should be about 45,000 years old now?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Selar Nox
#103 - 2012-01-11 11:39:38 UTC
A try to summarize what we have got in this thread by now:

As far as I can tell there are 3-4 major opinions about the renaming:

1) Great idea (but Trauma??)
Because:
- will make things easier - you always know with which damage type you are dealing, regardless of the missile type/size (after everybody has learned the - in parts - new names)
Suggestion:
- keep on going (perhaps add some other names for the unguided versions, oh and Trauma...)


2) Bad idea
Because:
- will remove life/flavour/rp from eve
- adds confusion (which Inferno are we talking about??)
- where will it end? (Amarr Frigate 1, 2 and 3; citation: Damage Thing I, ...)
- technical problems (e.g. kill boards)
- dumbing down eve (until now you were required to have some experience to tell which missile does what)
- confusion in transition phase
- Trauma??
Suggestion:
a) keep it as it is
b) keep unique names, but add new designators (damage type, prop mod size, experimental, etc.)
examples: "Thermal 'Foxfire' Unguided Rocket" - Foxfire Thermal Rocket - TH Rocket - UNIQUE Experimental Microwarpdrive - UNIQUE Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive - .... see more examples across the thread)


3) meh, don't care, but Trauma??


4) meh, don't care at all




Anything missing?





Sidenote:
A thought which crossed my mind:
Why will anybody name the base module 'limited'? In my eyes it would make more sense to use 'Standard' or even remove this designator at this module level. Upgraded and Experimental seems to be ok for me (but someone in here already mentioned he associates experimental with 'not necessarily reliable'...
Takeshi Yamato
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#104 - 2012-01-11 12:01:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Takeshi Yamato
Selar Nox wrote:


2) Bad idea
Because:
- will remove life/flavour/rp from eve
- adds confusion (which Inferno are we talking about??)
- where will it end? (Amarr Frigate 1, 2 and 3; citation: Damage Thing I, ...)
- technical problems (e.g. kill boards)
- dumbing down eve (until now you were required to have some experience to tell which missile does what)
- confusion in transition phase
- Trauma??


Most of these are mere fantasies with no relation to reality.

Life/favor/roleplay reduced due to standardized missile names? Because EVE's unique flavor comes from having many arbitrarily named items yea?
Confusion? How can standardized missile names be confusing? What we have now is confusing and not user friendly.
Amarr Frigate 1, 2 and 3? A mere strawman idea put forth by the conservatives who are against this idea.
Dumbing down EVE? Because EVE is about remembering market items yea?

It will necessitate updating data bases and kill board software most likely yes, and it might take a few days for everyone to get accustomed to the new system. But that's not a good enough reason to avoid doing this.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2012-01-11 12:45:37 UTC
I'm fine with everything except Trauma.
Selar Nox
#106 - 2012-01-11 14:05:04 UTC
Takeshi Yamato wrote:
[quote=Selar Nox]
[...]

Most of these are mere fantasies with no relation to reality.

Life/favor/roleplay reduced due to standardized missile names? Because EVE's unique flavor comes from having many arbitrarily named items yea?
Confusion? How can standardized missile names be confusing? What we have now is confusing and not user friendly.
Amarr Frigate 1, 2 and 3? A mere strawman idea put forth by the conservatives who are against this idea.
Dumbing down EVE? Because EVE is about remembering market items yea?

It will necessitate updating data bases and kill board software most likely yes, and it might take a few days for everyone to get accustomed to the new system. But that's not a good enough reason to avoid doing this.


1) Nobody said EVE's unique flavour comes from different named items. But the diversity supports it.
2) Having the same name for different stuff will lead to confusion. Especially in communication with others, like already pointed out by some examples in this thread. But I agree the system we have now also isn't perfect. This is why some people propose the compromise mentioned below and modified in different ways across this thread.
3) This has nothing to do with being conservative. Quite the contrary, I support a change but not in the way it is planned.
4) Nope EVE is not about remembering market items, but you have to know your tools and the one's of your opponent. Or won't you say it's good to know what say an Interceptor is used for and capable of? This knowledge is part of the experience, both in terms of gaming experience and experience/skill a player gets by playing EVE.


I really don't get it, what the problem should be by adding a damage designator to the already existing names?
New players can see at one glance the damage type, while life/favor/rp lovers can keep their names.
Looks like a fair compromise for me...

(If you're worried names getting too long then use just E, T, K, and E (or X) or EM, TH, KI, EX. Names will get longer by whooping 2/3 characters (including the space))


EVE is not just number crunching and perfecting efficiency, at least not for everybody.
Gameplay is very(!) important but not everything. Otherwise we can stick to Tetris&Co.
The same applies for userfriendlyness. The famous "I-Win-Button" would be perfectly user friendly, but is it really desirable?

For me believability and a rich and diverse environment are an important part for a good gaming experience. For EVE this is the stuff that breathes "life" into our beloved Excel-in-Space. And it seems there are others that share that point of view, while surely not everybody ^^
Psychobo
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#107 - 2012-01-11 15:13:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Psychobo
A misguided attempt at fixing stuff that works. Missile damage type is color coded. So are ECM modules. Looking up the meta level of an item is easy. On the other hand this will break external tools and make the game more bland. More dev time on real issues please.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#108 - 2012-01-11 15:20:10 UTC
Dev time on this:

update invTypes set typeName='Trauma rocket' where typeid=114

Repeat.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Solhild
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-01-11 20:45:36 UTC
I don't mind the name 'Trauma' - releasing these names will free up lots of words that can be better applied to new ships in EVE.

Actually the new Trauma/Devastator Dreadnought sounds cool Cool
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#110 - 2012-01-11 21:37:26 UTC
I liked the named stuff. It made me feel like I was buying some crazy cook's thing.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#111 - 2012-01-11 21:42:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Confustion point is moot.
1 Players will adapt
2 Players arent that stupid.

Technical Problems should also be moot
An agile web developer would be able to beat that problem with a quick revisit of entries.

The flavor is semi-moot an entire bag of everyflavor beans is almost univeresally agreeably more disgusting than berrylicous.

The only valid point I see is
Where will it end?

I doubt theyll go in and redo ships in this manner (though internally they are named as such on the database)
They will probably opt for uniformity of ship descriptions to be on par with tier 3 bcs.

NPCs possible but it will be a point twoards function. Does you no good to name 150,000 npcs if they are meaningless. Go read a book on diablo monster development and thoery if you disagree.

Take a look at gun ammo.

I need Antimatter XL
Scorch XL

Now the thing i would like to also possibly see is that all the tech 2 names change slightly so

Mjonlir would have the advanced Thor and Zues versions one being the old rage and the old javlin types.

that way there is a stronger uniformity with what guns shoot already.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#112 - 2012-01-11 21:50:49 UTC
Ill thow this into the pool.

Meaningless Depth.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#113 - 2012-01-11 21:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Psychobo wrote:
A misguided attempt at fixing stuff that works. Missile damage type is color coded. So are ECM modules. Looking up the meta level of an item is easy. On the other hand this will break external tools and make the game more bland. More dev time on real issues please.


Not everyone can see full colors.

Number 2 this is script kiddy work this is considered massive imipact minimal effort story which are usually down all the time the 'low hanging' fruit as one puts it.

chaning the names of the missiles is no different than correcting a spelling error int the game.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#114 - 2012-01-11 22:01:26 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Psychobo wrote:
A misguided attempt at fixing stuff that works. Missile damage type is color coded. So are ECM modules. Looking up the meta level of an item is easy. On the other hand this will break external tools and make the game more bland. More dev time on real issues please.


Not everyone can see full colors.

Number 2 this is script kiddy work this is considered massive imipact minimal effort story which are usually down all the time the 'low hanging' fruit as one puts it.

chaning the names of the missiles is no different than correcting a spelling error int the game.



Colorblindness is a *****, especially when it is situational. I can sometimes tell the difference, and sometimes can't. I've pretty much memorized what the different missile types, ammo types, and jammer types are by name at this point. Keep colors for those who can use them, but I support the name change because it makes it easier on us who can't depend on the colors.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention
#115 - 2012-01-11 23:02:55 UTC
sarcasm on:
As i see many pilot keep the NPC dmg types in their bio for everyday use.
Maybe CCP should rename NPCs after their dmg like:
Guristas: Kinetic-thermal pirates
Bloodraider: Em-thermal pirates
Serpentis: Thermal-kinetic pirates
and so on... Evil
sarcasm off

I think its not a terrible idea to rename the missiles, but they should find a better solution. There are a lot of good thought here in the thread, i prefer the Kinetic 'Scourge' Heavy missile.
And when CCP really wants to rename them, they should use the standar or heavy missile names, because the new players meet them first and torpedoes later (ie: Mjolnir). Cant even train for ships which are using torpedoes on trial account.
As a missile user i like my named missiles a lot. When i was a few month old noob, i could memorize the dmg types with the warhead colorcode. (i know it wont works for the colorblind ppl)
Irumani
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#116 - 2012-01-11 23:18:50 UTC
Vorll Minaaran wrote:
sarcasm on:
As i see many pilot keep the NPC dmg types in their bio for everyday use.
Maybe CCP should rename NPCs after their dmg like:
Guristas: Kinetic-thermal pirates
Bloodraider: Em-thermal pirates
Serpentis: Thermal-kinetic pirates
and so on... Evil
sarcasm off

I think its not a terrible idea to rename the missiles, but they should find a better solution. There are a lot of good thought here in the thread, i prefer the Kinetic 'Scourge' Heavy missile.
And when CCP really wants to rename them, they should use the standar or heavy missile names, because the new players meet them first and torpedoes later (ie: Mjolnir). Cant even train for ships which are using torpedoes on trial account.
As a missile user i like my named missiles a lot. When i was a few month old noob, i could memorize the dmg types with the warhead colorcode. (i know it wont works for the colorblind ppl)


Your first point could have been effective if the change was to put "Thermic Heavy Assault", "EM Heavy Missile" and so on, but it's not. It's using a codename to define a common characteristic. Just like the "Blood Raider" is a codename to define a specific set of attributes (energy vampire, em-the dealing NPCs).

As for the second point, let me put that straight: "I'm able to tell the difference, and I know some people just can't because they can't see the colors like I do, so I think it should stay as it is right now".
Am I doing this right?

You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.

  • CCP Wrangler
Micia
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2012-01-12 00:39:54 UTC
Don't like this. X

Frontier: Prelude To Darkness - An animated scifi web-series, featuring me! Watch it :) ...and coming soon, play Wing Commander Saga: Darkest Dawn. Also, with me. :)

Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#118 - 2012-01-12 01:03:53 UTC
So much whine.
DeadDuck
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#119 - 2012-01-12 10:08:33 UTC
Instead of new missile names can we have new missile mechanics ? You know because most of them are useless, specially the Heavy Assault ones ? Roll

Vorll Minaaran
Centre Of Attention
#120 - 2012-01-12 21:26:36 UTC
Irumani wrote:
Vorll Minaaran wrote:
sarcasm on:
As i see many pilot keep the NPC dmg types in their bio for everyday use.
Maybe CCP should rename NPCs after their dmg like:
Guristas: Kinetic-thermal pirates
Bloodraider: Em-thermal pirates
Serpentis: Thermal-kinetic pirates
and so on... Evil
sarcasm off

I think its not a terrible idea to rename the missiles, but they should find a better solution. There are a lot of good thought here in the thread, i prefer the Kinetic 'Scourge' Heavy missile.
And when CCP really wants to rename them, they should use the standar or heavy missile names, because the new players meet them first and torpedoes later (ie: Mjolnir). Cant even train for ships which are using torpedoes on trial account.
As a missile user i like my named missiles a lot. When i was a few month old noob, i could memorize the dmg types with the warhead colorcode. (i know it wont works for the colorblind ppl)


Your first point could have been effective if the change was to put "Thermic Heavy Assault", "EM Heavy Missile" and so on, but it's not. It's using a codename to define a common characteristic. Just like the "Blood Raider" is a codename to define a specific set of attributes (energy vampire, em-the dealing NPCs).

As for the second point, let me put that straight: "I'm able to tell the difference, and I know some people just can't because they can't see the colors like I do, so I think it should stay as it is right now".
Am I doing this right?


No, you don't.
pls read my post, understand it, and then come back with a real response.

Fly safe until then!