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First Maxed Eve account.

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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#401 - 2016-02-16 14:18:44 UTC
Big Lynx wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
All i would add, while i have no problem with the current set up of SP injectors.

Perhaps the better way of managing this would be that once you have 80m SP you can no longer inject...

Though, like ive said, i dont really care about how many SP a character has.

contradictory argumentation dude.


Contradictory to what?

The word you are looking for is 'conciliatory'.
Lady Moonrise
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#402 - 2016-02-16 14:22:45 UTC
CCP totally broke that game with this useless skill trading system. Evil
That's why I unsubbed all my accounts and hopefully many will follow to do so!
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#403 - 2016-02-16 14:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: stg slate
Jenn aSide wrote:

The companies that abuse 'whale' type players aren't forcing anyone to do anyhting. Neither are casinos that prey on gambling addicts.

The good ting about CCP before now is that they were one of the companies that didn't do the above. Now they are. That aren't forcing anyone, they are simply preying on those weak enough to spend real life money to 'progress faster' in a game.

What's worse is that EVE is a game where progressing faster means nothing.


And there it is, the e-honor space bushido argument.

Paying money to advance in a game is 'weak'. Not allowing players this option is 'good', therefore allowing it must be 'bad'.

That indeed bad and dishonorable, bad CCP : / CCP Falcon must atone harikari.

Just because you don't have disposable income to spend on gaming doesn't make others weak for doing so. Use it as incentive to do better life. If you do have money and don't spend then just admit other people spend for their hobbies more than you. Its not bad just different, like buying a fancy golf club set when a cheaper set would work just fine.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#404 - 2016-02-16 14:40:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
stg slate wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

The companies that abuse 'whale' type players aren't forcing anyone to do anyhting. Neither are casinos that prey on gambling addicts.

The good ting about CCP before now is that they were one of the companies that didn't do the above. Now they are. That aren't forcing anyone, they are simply preying on those weak enough to spend real life money to 'progress faster' in a game.

What's worse is that EVE is a game where progressing faster means nothing.


And there it is, the e-honor space bushido argument.

Paying money to advance in a game is 'weak'. Not allowing players this option is 'good', therefore allowing it must be 'bad'.

That indeed bad and dishonorable, bad CCP : / CCP Falcon must atone harikari.

Just because you don't have disposable income to spend on gaming doesn't make others weak for doing so. Use it as incentive to do better life. If you do have money and don't spend then just admit other people spend for their hobbies more than you. Its not bad just different, like buying a fancy golf club set when a cheaper set would work just fine.


Oh look an apologist for abusive corprate greed that preys on the gullible. Where is Mr. Epeen with his Fox News analogies now I wonder?

But more seriously, I've been at my job for 18 years this next May, I have plenty to spend on a game. Buiy why would I need to since I've made 25 bil stripping unwanted toons of sp?

What you are doing is trying to imagine that opposition to SP trading is based on some form of personal self intertets. People do this as a way of minimizing other folks ideas (with the side affect of not having to thing critically about their own).

Well sorry, this isn't about self interest other than my personal love of what EVE is. SP trading doens't hurt me, hell it's helped, I don't have to worry about game time for months now. So what if I get a bad drop for a 10/10 or 'ammo and a tag' from a faction spawn. My SP farming alts are producing WEALTH right now at the rate of 2200 SP per hour.

You see, some of us can look past mere short term self interest when anaylsing a problem. SP is great for individuals (like me) short term, it's bad long term because it affects a wide array of issue (like incentive to play for older players, incentive to learn for younger players etc) that it was not intended to. Like I did with Dominion (when all those idiot proclaimed the coming death of the big blocs), I plan on saving this thread and showing it to you in about a year.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#405 - 2016-02-16 14:47:21 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


I usually agree with the points you make as they are valid, but this is just sounds like anger because its not what you want, ccp are not forcing anyone to spend money and they have played it out to try and satisfy vets and newbies, cant win them all though can you?


The companies that abuse 'whale' type players aren't forcing anyone to do anyhting. Neither are casinos that prey on gambling addicts.

The good ting about CCP before now is that they were one of the companies that didn't do the above. Now they are. That aren't forcing anyone, they are simply preying on those weak enough to spend real life money to 'progress faster' in a game.

What's worse is that EVE is a game where progressing faster means nothing.

Quote:

-Disappointment in watching a company that up till now offered a square deal (flat subscription for access, with PLEX and the Character Bazaar being palatable short cuts people could take at higher cost) turning into a company that seems to want to squeeze every penny out of newer folks and veterans alike.

this paragraph just seems like a total entitlement whine, let me ask you something, if the above statement was so great and ccp stuck to a deadend business model which clearly was not working to keep new players here, how exactly do they make money? they cant raise sub subscriptions because that causes outrage, how do they research new tech, pay for better servers, pay the developers in an constant price inflating world where subscriptions seem to be falling?


You act like CCP was in some kind of poor house. They weren't EVE was making a profit, apparently not enough of a profit for stake holders, but more than enough to do what they were doing. Apparently their financial situation was good enough to borrow 30 million dollars for Valkyrie. No bank I know of loans money to unprofitable business.

Your problem is that you aren't being properly critical of this issue because you seem to have paired it with some belief that EVE would die without out it. CCP could have done a whole slew of other things instead of this, they could have stuck to the 'cosmetic only' micro transactions and simply gotten better at making things like Skins (we told them during the skin bug that we'd pay for more customization ability, for example).

Quote:

This doesnt personally affect your game unless you choose to let it affect your game


I expected more from you than this kind of cop out. That's the kind of thing people say when they know they are defending a bad thing. I'm going to bookmark this particular post and show it to you in a year or so when the deleterious affects of this new unnecessary wealth faucet has had time to affect the game.


Im neutral to it all, i dont see it as a bad thing till they block out half my overview with advetisments for floor cleaner unless i buy a monthly overview pack for rl cash, at the end of the day it doesn't really affect me and my game, ill still have fun the same way as i did before, because i chose not to concern myself with what the other character is or isnt doing. im not being critical because i dont see much difference from character bazaar, nothing to do with eve dying.

ccp maybe not in a poor house but businesses making money is pretty standard practice and i dont know the financial situation of ccp so cant really comment, eve probably wouldn't die but its clear that it wasnt expanding further with the current model. only time would tell what would happen and i personally wouldnt want to see ccp just randomly turn off the servers because eve was a deadend.

They aint praying they are giving people who dont have the time but have the money to invest and create an experience similar to those who invested 10 years, its completely optional and they dont even ram the advertisments down my throat.

As for the other microtransactions, they are pretty garbage doesn't matter how you paint it they dont make you perform something better than previously so the appeal is limited.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#406 - 2016-02-16 14:48:58 UTC
If the skill training mechanics is what keep you playing then you are doing it wrong. And applying your standards of how the game should be developed is a horrible idea.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#407 - 2016-02-16 14:54:48 UTC
Samsara Toldya wrote:
When JonnyPew extracted 100m+ SP CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar tweeted, that his mind was blown by this action
Or in other words: "We didn't see that coming!"

Can't wait for his Tweet on what this thread is about. With his mind already blown away by JonnyPew I'm afraid IronBank might have blown Hilmars balls... in one way or the other.

Hilmer is incompetent if he couldn't predict something like this happening. Looks like he and Rise needs to step down from their positions.

Then again it may already be too late to recover from this aforementioned disaster.
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#408 - 2016-02-16 14:57:14 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Well sorry, this isn't about self interest other than my personal love of what EVE is. SP trading doens't hurt me, hell it's helped, I don't have to worry about game time for months now. So what if I get a bad drop for a 10/10 or 'ammo and a tag' from a faction spawn. My SP farming alts are producing WEALTH right now at the rate of 2200 SP per hour.

You see, some of us can look past mere short term self interest when anaylsing a problem. SP is great for individuals (like me) short term, it's bad long term because it affects a wide array of issue (like incentive to play for older players, incentive to learn for younger players etc) that it was not intended to. Like I did with Dominion (when all those idiot proclaimed the coming death of the big blocs), I plan on saving this thread and showing it to you in about a year.


Your imagined 'wide array of issues' are the issue. If you don't like the change and it makes the game less enjoyable for you it doesn't mean that every older player less incentive to play. I can see how an armchair psychologist might be confused, but its pretty basic intro psych stuff called 'projection'.
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#409 - 2016-02-16 15:00:09 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Oh look an apologist for abusive corprate greed that preys on the gullible.


Wait what, making money is corporate greed? Stop being smelly hippy.

Game makers don't prey on people; people can make own choice to pay for hobbies. Selling people fancy golf clubs not taking advantage people, some people like fancy clubs even when cheaper ones work fine.
Gal Prof
Doomheim
#410 - 2016-02-16 15:05:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gal Prof
First Maxed Eve Account but definitely not the last.

Lady Moonrise wrote:
CCP totally broke that game with this useless skill trading system. Evil
That's why I unsubbed all my accounts and hopefully many will follow to do so!


Can i have your stuffs？
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#411 - 2016-02-16 15:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
stg slate wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Oh look an apologist for abusive corprate greed that preys on the gullible.


Wait what, making money is corporate greed? Stop being smelly hippy.

Game makers don't prey on people; people can make own choice to pay for hobbies. Selling people fancy golf clubs not taking advantage people, some people like fancy clubs even when cheaper ones work fine.


This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby....
Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
#412 - 2016-02-16 15:15:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Codie Rin
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money?
Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income.


Think about it mate.

The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here.



Well please explain, enlighten me, because I am lost. If you mean then people will just unsub then yes there is that risk.


When people buy PLEX with isk. Someone, somewhere spent real life money to create that PLEX. PLEX just represents 1 month subscription and its RL cost is higher than simply paying a month subscription on your own account.

The added cost represents the value of being able to market the PLEX in game and as such pay other peoples subscriptions for in game reward.


Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example.
Basically you pay for your subs with real cash and the option to buy game time with plex stops, but of course you can buy plex with isk to do the other stuff it allows you to do. Therefore income from actual subs should increase quite alot.
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#413 - 2016-02-16 15:20:12 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby....


So EVE players are not responsible person?

Cynical, obvious you think you so smart from posts, but all the rest of players are irresponsible children who can't be trusted not to spend rent money on injectors?
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#414 - 2016-02-16 15:21:08 UTC
Codie Rin wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Codie Rin wrote:
Why dont CCP just stop people being able to play their subs using ISK? If they want to make more money?
Plex or game time can only be bought with RL cash not in game ISK. Surely this would make a massive increase in income.


Think about it mate.

The biggest problem with these forums is that you dont need to pass an IQ test to post here.



Well please explain, enlighten me, because I am lost. If you mean then people will just unsub then yes there is that risk.


When people buy PLEX with isk. Someone, somewhere spent real life money to create that PLEX. PLEX just represents 1 month subscription and its RL cost is higher than simply paying a month subscription on your own account.

The added cost represents the value of being able to market the PLEX in game and as such pay other peoples subscriptions for in game reward.


Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example.
Basically you pay for your subs with real cash.

FOR FREE?
What about the energy bill and ruined relationships outside game? Nothing is free in this world. Playing games and grinding is what is scourge upon this lands.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Codie Rin
Comply Or Die
#415 - 2016-02-16 15:22:34 UTC
Quote:

FOR FREE?
What about the energy bill and ruined relationships outside game? Nothing is free in this world. Playing games and grinding is what is scourge upon this lands.


yeah OK missed that one :)
stg slate
State War Academy
Caldari State
#416 - 2016-02-16 15:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: stg slate
Nana Skalski wrote:

FOR FREE?
What about the energy bill and ruined relationships outside game? Nothing is free in this world. Playing games and grinding is what is scourge upon this lands.


Why is it all of you can't seem to play game without destroying life? Is that common thing about people in thread, all ignore wife and miss bill pay and ignore friends to fly spaceships?

EDIT: If this was sarcasm then sorry, posting quicker harder to understand then slowly.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#417 - 2016-02-16 15:24:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Jenn aSide wrote:
stg slate wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

Oh look an apologist for abusive corprate greed that preys on the gullible.


Wait what, making money is corporate greed? Stop being smelly hippy.

Game makers don't prey on people; people can make own choice to pay for hobbies. Selling people fancy golf clubs not taking advantage people, some people like fancy clubs even when cheaper ones work fine.


This isn't golf clubs for rich people (whatever a responsible person does with his or her money is their business), this is someone intentionally deciding to open a liquor store right next to an alcoholic's anonymous meeting house then pretending like they didn't know their were alcoholics nearby....

That is just an ideal business environment. Twisted
Think about the perspectives.

ᴇᴠᴇʀʏ ᴘᴀʀᴛ ᴏғ ᴀ ɢᴀᴍᴇ ʜᴇʟᴘs ᴛᴏ ᴛᴇʟʟ ᴀ sᴛᴏʀʏ 📕

ᴡʜᴇʀᴇ ɪs ᴀɴɢʀʏ ᴄᴏɴᴄᴏʀᴅ ɢᴜʏ ᴡʜᴇɴ ʏᴏᴜ ɴᴇᴇᴅ ʜɪᴍ

ᴏsᴘʀᴇʏ 🚀

≡⋁≡ ♥
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#418 - 2016-02-16 15:33:28 UTC
Codie Rin wrote:

Yes but I can also just go mine and rat to gain the ISK i need to buy that plex FOR FREE. In fact I could if i so wanted never ever pay personally to play the game. So my point is remove that option so that you cant buy game time with ISK from ingame but in order to sub you need to physically pay for it. Sorry perhaps plex was a bad example.
Basically you pay for your subs with real cash.


But that wont make more money for CCP, it will make less.

As i have said, PLEX is more expensive than a month subscription. This means CCP gets more money when someone buys a PLEX and sells it on the market than they do when the potential buyer of that PLEX subscribes for a month. Much less if they subscribe for a year.

Having the option to pay your subscription with PLEX gives people the option to pay, at an elevated rate, your subscription at the cost of your ISK.

More options is good and enables people to make choices that suit them.

This is the same with SP trading. The new options gives people the choice to advance faster. This is a good thing and helps people feel invested in the game. The rate of older players investing 4bn ISK per 1m SP (15 days of training) is not going to be that excessive. Nor will it effect your game in the slightest.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#419 - 2016-02-16 15:34:08 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Please explain how this negatively impacts you,
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
... Though beyond personal vanity i dont see any actual arguments against it. ....
"Know thy enemy gone"
More tantrum kiddies to erode the community will stay.
stg slate wrote:
Lady Anorexia wrote:
Seems CCP is going the way of Blizzard plus a pinch of EA.
Lol that actually is hilarious, EA and Blizzard are enormously successful companies that can crank out AAA titles that gamers **** themselves for in anticipation.
I am lost for words so take this picture.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#420 - 2016-02-16 15:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
What do you base that hypothetical on?

Young players are tantrum kiddies and older players are mature and desirable?

You realise that all old players were once young players, right? And regardless of their demeanor, this game needs new players.

Perhaps you should lay off the hypotheticals, you are not very good at it.

One thing is for certain, if im warping into a hostile gang to do a bit of kiting, the last thing i do is scroll through all the players in local looking for their age...