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Hey but I'm up to debate with you on teamspeak or something and record it and post it somewhere. That way it's a lot harder to misdirect arguments and run with blatant lies.

says volumes

also which counter did you say was a counter?

- Shoot the wreck popper
- Loot the wreck faster
- Choose an alternate target away from the wreck popper
- Infiltrate the anti-ganking group and opt for yourself to shoot the wreck, then don't shoot it.

But all of these counters are inspired by the counters provided by gankers to gank victims. They tell people to web, which only works if the gankers don't have a suicide tackle as fast or faster than the webber and they tell people to avoid the systems or to not make the run when there are gankers there. Effectively what you're saying that these aren't valid counters because if the other player also puts in a significant amount of effort they can also be successful some of the time and/or because it means not doing what you wanted to do while it's too risky, all while the opposing team stand to gain absolutely nothing even if they are successful while you have already achieved the main success of killing the target.

#3 really sticks out as the strangest response here, considering how many times I've seen freighter pilots being told that they should not jump into a system with gankers present. It comes across like gankers should never have to say "no, this is far too risky, stand down" while other players should still have to make that judgement call.

Wut?

Effectively I put forward valid counters, you dismissed them as too hard, I compared them to very similar arguments given by gankers to gank victims and you ragequit the discussion. Certainly doesn't sound like I'm losing this round.

And still that #3 makes me kek.

nice edit btw

>you dismissed them as too hard
fundamentally impossible against a competent pilot.

>I compared them to very similar arguments given by gankers to gank victims and you ragequit the discussion.
but it's not relevant as there are counters to being bumped, being ganked, and being scanned.

Sure you can, I listed counters above. Even just inviting me to a fleet, duel of conversation at the moment of destruction would delay me long enough to grab the wreck. More importantly though, if I'm known to be an elite wreck shooter, why are you engaging in the activity knowing full well I'm going to try to volley the wreck? Like during Burn Jita, freighter are jumping in ad getting popped and people are like "WTF are you doing going to Jita with gankers in system". This is no different. What you really want is a way to guarantee your loot, so you don't have to worry about ever losing it and never have to even consider the possibility of someone beating you.

>But all of these counters are inspired by the counters provided by gankers to gank victims.
irrelevant to wreck shooting

It's a pointer the the hyprocricy of the modern ganker.

>#3 really sticks out as the strangest response here, considering how many times I've seen freighter pilots being told that they should not jump into a system with gankers present.
there are many viable routes, there are many ways to mitigate the risk of getting ganked. There is no way to mitigate the risk of a wreck shooter other than hoping he doesnt notice you or he messes up.

Travelling from Amarr to Jita means you have to go through Niarja, Uedama or lowsec. There's no other route. Also, that's entirely the point. There are other systems to gank in. You could simply pick a new target in a new system. But much like the pilot flying though Niarja, you don't want to pick a new target, you want that one. You just want that target with a guaranteed loot bag at the end of it. Tough. That's what risk is.


> Effectively what you're saying that these aren't valid counters because if the other player also puts in a significant amount of effort
excuse me? the amount of effort required is extremely low, how hard is it to invest 2 million isk, a 15 minute alt and learn to make pings on gates? the effort required to be 'excellent' is tiny.And fly between the pings, and avoid being blapped by the ganker and learn to get the targeting and firing into the first server tick after the wrek appears, and potentially moving to the UK. Yet another of the times you're understating the amount of effort by your opposition.

>successful some of the time
lol

Yes, some of the time. I know for a fact that wreck poppers aren't always successful (in fact I've seen more fail that succeed, but that's beside the point), thus making their success "some of the time".

Why do you keep dismissing every single thing that opposes your viewpoint as "other stuff"? We are talking about ganking since you keep telling me how one guy shouldn't be able to destroy 20 guys work. If we weren't talking about ganking then we would be talking about one single looter vs one single wreck popper, which used to be the balanced way it was done.

You didn't refute anything, you just went "nope" like because it's your opinion that wreck poppers are unstoppable that it is automatically fact. Refuting something requires a basic level of proof, and since we do in fact know for certain that some wreck poppers fail and that some gankers do in fact get their loot, we already know that you can provide no proof that wreck poppers are unstoppable. Effectively what you are saying is "Without killing or distracting the wreck popper, looting the wreck faster, picking a different target or timing our ganking in such a way that anti-gankers aren't around to pop our loot, loot poppers are unstoppable!".

Yes, because coordinating two people firing in a fraction of a second is in no way significantly more difficult than coordinating a single person. I'll give you that it's still viable, but it's certainly not reasonable. I doubt we'll see much of it, so I guess in that way you win, you'll now have like a 99% chance of getting your loot rather than like 70% or whatever it was pre-change.

Woohoo!

You wont win against him, he has a vested interest in not understanding the game mechanics.

Shhhh. CCP coddles carebears and hates gankers. Don't you know?