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Eve devalued
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Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#121 - 2016-02-13 13:44:32 UTC
Bad Messenger wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:


no it ever wont be a requirement to have max skills to pvp, who even cares about skills in pvp?


it used to be like that , but now when it is possible to everyone have max skills for ship and fit it will be requirement for everyone.

You will see.


Agreed, eve is a capitalism simulator (with spaceship fighting). If you're not competitive you WILL lose, adapt or die and all that.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#122 - 2016-02-13 14:52:04 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Training my first and second racial cruiser to 5 felt like an accomplishment. When I sucked the mining- and rock related skills out of my toons and got third racial cruiser with the free SP it didn't offer any similar satisfaction - It was too easy. Eve used to be hunt for isk and wait for sp and content, now it feels like the sole purpose is to hunt for isk. Ugh


make the sole purpose to hunt for content, just because skills can be bought and sold doesnt mean you have to jump on the band wagon and actually do it, if you feel it has ruined your game then stop doing it, its pretty simple, nobody is forcing you to sell sp thats your own greed taking over.
Not selling, I'm buying, hence the greed. How can one even resist taking a quick route to catch up with doctrines...
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#123 - 2016-02-13 15:44:06 UTC
Well it's only been a couple of days and I've only dumped about 20billion isk worth of injectors into my character, but here's my thoughts:

nice

I feel better. I have more options, more opportunities.

I'm playing the game a lot more than I was. My activity level had practically dropped to zero for the last month, but since Tuesday it's spiked back up to where it was when I first started playing.

I don't know how long this will last though. Maybe it's the novelty of the new possibilities I'm capable of that's compelling me to play. Maybe it's the confidence I have in my character's lack of core weaknesses. Maybe it's simply me forcing myself to get a return out of the money I've invested.

I'm having fun though. EvE has consumed me again, taking the place of Darkest Dungeon and Rocket League. Hopefully it will continue to last, though I know nothing ever does. Journey before Destination and what not, I'll try to enjoy the ride wherever it ends up taking me.

Also, just for the record I'm better at everything than all of you and if you would all please stop being incredibly jealous of my superiority, all of us could enjoy ourselves for who we are regardless of your shortcomings in comparison to my greatness.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#124 - 2016-02-13 16:28:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
I just saw something like this in Hek Local:
"returning player 75mill combat SP. Looking for decent active pvp corp."
How quaint. Smile And kind of sad.
Dyllan Ma'tar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2016-02-13 18:01:37 UTC
Algarion Getz wrote:
How is skill trading distribution of wealth?


Twist ending: sp was the only real wealth you ever had.
Captain Grantkarppe
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2016-02-14 02:50:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Grantkarppe
I've been saying this ever since the mere notion of skill trading was raised back in October. Suffice it to say I am going to enjoy seeing my concerns vindicated as the game's population declines sharply over the next few months.

You've successfully dealt a potentially killing blow to your game, CCP.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#127 - 2016-02-14 04:08:25 UTC
Captain Grantkarppe wrote:


You've successfully dealt a potentially killing blow to your game, CCP.



ANOTHER killing blow. The whole "**** off vets, we are giving it to the noobs" attitude of the new management is quite visible to me every Sunday when I log on and see 15k-20k LESS people online than just a few years ago.

Being in Goonswarm is not what the majority of the players in eve want to do CCP, obviously hard for you to comprehend, but just look at your paid subs. Just keep thinking that everybody wants to spend their game time in a giant lag fest in null while ganking defenseless haulers in high sec with alts and watch the numbers fall.

It was lots of fun at times. With this brilliant move you make all our YEARS of skill training meaningless. Now you are gonna kill the last bastion of the solo Indy player with Citadels. I haven't payed real money to play in a few years now, down from 10 accounts to 3 and counting down. Just spending my accumulated wealth.

I just don't see a future for me in this game anymore.

I am really kinda surprised you didn't make a mini-game out of it. Skill Spew at Jita 4-4. Extra SP if you fly a armor tanker with shield mods and a mix of lasers, hybrids and launchers. Roll

Who are you people and what happened to the people that understood this game and made it work well?

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#128 - 2016-02-14 08:05:19 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Captain Grantkarppe wrote:


You've successfully dealt a potentially killing blow to your game, CCP.



ANOTHER killing blow. The whole "**** off vets, we are giving it to the noobs" attitude of the new management is quite visible to me every Sunday when I log on and see 15k-20k LESS people online than just a few years ago.

Being in Goonswarm is not what the majority of the players in eve want to do CCP, obviously hard for you to comprehend, but just look at your paid subs. Just keep thinking that everybody wants to spend their game time in a giant lag fest in null while ganking defenseless haulers in high sec with alts and watch the numbers fall.

It was lots of fun at times. With this brilliant move you make all our YEARS of skill training meaningless. Now you are gonna kill the last bastion of the solo Indy player with Citadels. I haven't payed real money to play in a few years now, down from 10 accounts to 3 and counting down. Just spending my accumulated wealth.

I just don't see a future for me in this game anymore.

I am really kinda surprised you didn't make a mini-game out of it. Skill Spew at Jita 4-4. Extra SP if you fly a armor tanker with shield mods and a mix of lasers, hybrids and launchers. Roll

Who are you people and what happened to the people that understood this game and made it work well?

I plan to do the exact same thing. I'm gonna strip the SP of my alts, power up Dani and sell off the rest SP and just pew the rest of my wealth away. Once my game resources have been exhausted, I'm done.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#129 - 2016-02-14 08:18:22 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Captain Grantkarppe wrote:


You've successfully dealt a potentially killing blow to your game, CCP.



ANOTHER killing blow. The whole "**** off vets, we are giving it to the noobs" attitude of the new management is quite visible to me every Sunday when I log on and see 15k-20k LESS people online than just a few years ago.

Being in Goonswarm is not what the majority of the players in eve want to do CCP, obviously hard for you to comprehend, but just look at your paid subs. Just keep thinking that everybody wants to spend their game time in a giant lag fest in null while ganking defenseless haulers in high sec with alts and watch the numbers fall.

It was lots of fun at times. With this brilliant move you make all our YEARS of skill training meaningless. Now you are gonna kill the last bastion of the solo Indy player with Citadels. I haven't payed real money to play in a few years now, down from 10 accounts to 3 and counting down. Just spending my accumulated wealth.

I just don't see a future for me in this game anymore.

I am really kinda surprised you didn't make a mini-game out of it. Skill Spew at Jita 4-4. Extra SP if you fly a armor tanker with shield mods and a mix of lasers, hybrids and launchers. Roll

Who are you people and what happened to the people that understood this game and made it work well?

I plan to do the exact same thing. I'm gonna strip the SP of my alts, power up Dani and sell off the rest SP and just pew the rest of my wealth away. Once my game resources have been exhausted, I'm done.


stop planning and do it already, geez...

Just Add Water
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#130 - 2016-02-14 08:59:40 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Captain Grantkarppe wrote:


You've successfully dealt a potentially killing blow to your game, CCP.



ANOTHER killing blow. The whole "**** off vets, we are giving it to the noobs" attitude of the new management is quite visible to me every Sunday when I log on and see 15k-20k LESS people online than just a few years ago.

Being in Goonswarm is not what the majority of the players in eve want to do CCP, obviously hard for you to comprehend, but just look at your paid subs. Just keep thinking that everybody wants to spend their game time in a giant lag fest in null while ganking defenseless haulers in high sec with alts and watch the numbers fall.

It was lots of fun at times. With this brilliant move you make all our YEARS of skill training meaningless. Now you are gonna kill the last bastion of the solo Indy player with Citadels. I haven't payed real money to play in a few years now, down from 10 accounts to 3 and counting down. Just spending my accumulated wealth.

I just don't see a future for me in this game anymore.

I am really kinda surprised you didn't make a mini-game out of it. Skill Spew at Jita 4-4. Extra SP if you fly a armor tanker with shield mods and a mix of lasers, hybrids and launchers. Roll

Who are you people and what happened to the people that understood this game and made it work well?

I plan to do the exact same thing. I'm gonna strip the SP of my alts, power up Dani and sell off the rest SP and just pew the rest of my wealth away. Once my game resources have been exhausted, I'm done.


stop planning and do it already, geez...

Sorry Nat, I'm normally not a whiner but CCP has really done it this time.
Scotchmo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#131 - 2016-02-14 21:33:53 UTC
So I take it with the new skill trading that t3 cruisers downside (loss of sp) can now be overcome with an additional 600mil on the hull price.

Is this intended? This seems as close to gold ammo as there can be without actually calling it gold ammo.
Tetsel
House Amamake
#132 - 2016-02-14 23:49:35 UTC
Michael Turate wrote:
You can't buy social skills, intelligence, cunning, the ability to work in a team, communication, tactics or any of the stuff that really matters in Eve. There have never been short cuts in Eve. There still aren't, there's just an enormously expensive alternative route that looks like a short cut but which, for most, will just be a dead end.


So why bother ? we should ask CCP to stop this stupid skill stuff and just give all of the players maxed out pilots then.

Loyal servent to Mother Amamake. @EVE_Tetsel

Another Bittervet Please Ignore
Osmonde Jr
Mission Running Slaves
#133 - 2016-02-15 01:33:24 UTC
This is so entertaining, all the butt hurt over skill trading and predictions that the game is going to die now. After reading all 7 pages I still can't understand what the butt hurt is about. I am guessing the only thing to measure a persons progress in this game was apparently the SP that you accumulated.
Demica Diaz
SE-1
#134 - 2016-02-15 09:25:10 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
A 4-day-old character lost his 10-billion Ark yesterday.
SP != Skill.
SP does not teach you anything, it only enables you to do certain things.

Skill trading is not pay to win. Those who think otherwise are the ones that will lose all their money and be podded back to World of Warcraft, where they belong.

It is pay to win. Newbs lose capitals all the time but so do experienced players. losing a ship to a gank does not negate the fact you can pay for SP. given certain alliances have trillions and trillions of isk and can generate trillions more each day EvE will now be about buying skillpoints and whomever can afford the most to max out their doctrine fleets will be the winners.


I agree. It is pay to win. What baffels me is that so many fail to see beyond PvP aspect. Skill pumped newbro explorer will be winning "regular" newbro in exploration in every way. Scan faster, fly bubble immune T3 in null, has more virus strenght to succeed in minigame... and so on. Roll
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#135 - 2016-02-15 09:43:33 UTC
Osmonde Jr wrote:
This is so entertaining, all the butt hurt over skill trading and predictions that the game is going to die now. After reading all 7 pages I still can't understand what the butt hurt is about. I am guessing the only thing to measure a persons progress in this game was apparently the SP that you accumulated.


SP didn't measure progress it measured the time you'd put into your character. Nobody else cared about your SP but to you every skill you train gives you a sense of progression / "accomplishment" especially since some ca take a month, it's a mental trick to reward you for continuing to play. Now everyone is realising that SP no longer holds the same value it once had, rich players can buy their way instantly to any desired skill set, and if you can't well too bad eve isn't made for poors like you. This knowledge cheapens the entire experience for many people who were looking for something deeper than a mechanically simple, slow paced, lock-f1, spreadsheet simulator. Eve of old felt like a real living world. That depth helped people look past it's failings, stripping out depth exposes the less than great parts that will continue to put off new players.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#136 - 2016-02-15 09:45:17 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:
A 4-day-old character lost his 10-billion Ark yesterday.
SP != Skill.
SP does not teach you anything, it only enables you to do certain things.

Skill trading is not pay to win. Those who think otherwise are the ones that will lose all their money and be podded back to World of Warcraft, where they belong.

It is pay to win. Newbs lose capitals all the time but so do experienced players. losing a ship to a gank does not negate the fact you can pay for SP. given certain alliances have trillions and trillions of isk and can generate trillions more each day EvE will now be about buying skillpoints and whomever can afford the most to max out their doctrine fleets will be the winners.


I agree. It is pay to win. What baffels me is that so many fail to see beyond PvP aspect. Skill pumped newbro explorer will be winning "regular" newbro in exploration in every way. Scan faster, fly bubble immune T3 in null, has more virus strenght to succeed in minigame... and so on. Roll


its not pay2win because its already available within the game with no restrictions

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#137 - 2016-02-15 09:46:52 UTC
Demica Diaz wrote:

I agree. It is pay to win. What baffels me is that so many fail to see beyond PvP aspect. Skill pumped newbro explorer will be winning "regular" newbro in exploration in every way. Scan faster, fly bubble immune T3 in null, has more virus strenght to succeed in minigame... and so on. Roll


scan faster? lol, there's alot of empty space out there that there shouldn't be any competition at all. what's the difference between level 4 to 5 of scanning skills anyway to make it as big as an advantage? Lol

flying through buubles are considered winning now? What?

virus strength? lol, see answer # 1. Lol

Just Add Water
Osmonde Jr
Mission Running Slaves
#138 - 2016-02-15 17:22:27 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Osmonde Jr wrote:
This is so entertaining, all the butt hurt over skill trading and predictions that the game is going to die now. After reading all 7 pages I still can't understand what the butt hurt is about. I am guessing the only thing to measure a persons progress in this game was apparently the SP that you accumulated.


SP didn't measure progress it measured the time you'd put into your character. Nobody else cared about your SP but to you every skill you train gives you a sense of progression / "accomplishment" especially since some ca take a month, it's a mental trick to reward you for continuing to play. Now everyone is realising that SP no longer holds the same value it once had, rich players can buy their way instantly to any desired skill set, and if you can't well too bad eve isn't made for poors like you. This knowledge cheapens the entire experience for many people who were looking for something deeper than a mechanically simple, slow paced, lock-f1, spreadsheet simulator. Eve of old felt like a real living world. That depth helped people look past it's failings, stripping out depth exposes the less than great parts that will continue to put off new players.


Lol It wasn't like that before? I remember when I joined in 08, I just bought a 40 million pvp toon (thanks to gtc's) and then beat on people that were new to the game or just learning pvp until an actual pvper put me in my place. So rich players buying into a skill set didn't change and I bet once people stop dumping the skill injectors on the market I bet it would cost the same amount as it did in 08.

I never measured sp as progress if not more of a hindrance, the mental trick for me is being able to not restrain myself in just on one type of game play, like people here who only mission or "generate isk". All these tears (which are immensely satisfying) sounds like they belong in a theme park mmo since the big draw for me in Eve is the sand box content and me creating my own content. I think skill trading finally woken some people up that they never really had much with Eve to begin with, as it really is irrelevant that some person dropped $300 to boost their toon to 50 million sp as they will still lack experience and it doesn't hinder my game play.

My point might be all over the place and I apologize. But I haven't seen one person is all 7 pages just like on /eve make one decent point on how skill trading is detrimental to game play. As for putting off new players it all depends on if they are going to limit themselves. This game is a sand box and you have to create your own content and if you are incapable of that that, then there is theme park mmo's that will have content available for you and no "p2w" with some that isn't f2p so you can keep you epeen of progression or time invested in your toon w/e.
Alea
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2016-02-15 17:29:04 UTC
Osmonde Jr wrote:
This is so entertaining, all the butt hurt over skill trading and predictions that the game is going to die now. After reading all 7 pages I still can't understand what the butt hurt is about. I am guessing the only thing to measure a persons progress in this game was apparently the SP that you accumulated.


Age of a character was a form of intel on possible skills and abilities, now age is useless as a person can now buy what they want instead of earning it over time, earning skills was honorable but now it's money in CCPs pocket, in essence they sold the soul of Eve, HTFU is no longer a part of Eve as long as you have RL money to buy the level you want to be at.

SP trading is a form of pay to win, what comes next since this has gone over so well with the instant gratification kiddies.? If a shady pay to win scheme works why not a more blatant pay to win scheme,?

If CCP introduced a name change for PLEX that would have been good, or at the most the ability to shuffle your own SP around on the same character that would have been somewhat tolerable, but buying skills for your character is flat out wrong for Eve, that's why it is dying as it's no longer a niche game as a new player can come in and buy there way to a level they can afford, pay to win.

Whomever is making the last few years decisions on what changes are to be implemented in this game, must hate Eve with all their being.
Josef Djugashvilis
#140 - 2016-02-15 17:39:26 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
do we really need anymore discussion posts about sp trading sheesh.

If you think eve is pay2win then get a newbro to fly a max level raven into lowsec/null and see if he wins


Why is the assumption always that it will be a clueless new player who will buy skills - buy a ship and fittings and get hammered?

Why could it not be a player of a few months who has some knowledge of pvp, who buys the skills to jump up a few ship - gun skill grades etc and in doing so gain an 'unfair' advantage over those of similar experience who cannot afford, or will not deal in cash for skills?

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