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Afterburn To Warp Trick.

Author
Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
#1 - 2016-02-13 08:29:12 UTC
Made a quick video showing a little trick I always use when travelling in those slow boat ships to get to warp quicker.

Hope it helps a couple people when travelling.

https://youtu.be/ArxO2t6mpGk
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#2 - 2016-02-13 09:16:25 UTC
Nice video.

I've always worked on the basis that if the cycle time of your AB is shorter than your align time, it's worth doing; otherwise it's better to align without a prop module active.

Reason being, time to warp is dependent on mass:

TimeToWarp = -ln(0.25) × Mass_kg × Agility / 1000000

(from the wiki)

So if you activate an AB, the mass of your ship will increase and that will increase the time to warp (assuming you don't turn the AB off).

So if you will warp normally, faster than 1 cycle of the AB, don't use the AB.

If your time to warp is slower than 1 cycle of the AB, then it's worth considering, though I personally prefer MWD/Cloak wherever possible.

Also, the kick back you mention at the end of the video is a result of the mass change in your ship, increasing the align time. It's not actually a slowing of your ship at all, which is still accelerating. It's matched at the other end of your cycle where you instawarp because once the mass drops again, the calculation determines that you should be in warp already even though you are still accelerating the update before the AB switches off.

Of course, I could be totally wrong on all that because I suck at Eve and really just wing it most of the time.



Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#3 - 2016-02-13 09:55:23 UTC
Very useful with deep space transports. EVElopedia calls these "some of the slowest ships to be found floating through space" but they will warp with 1 pulse of the afterburner.
Sturmwolke
#4 - 2016-02-13 10:17:32 UTC
Just be wary about using AB for MWD cloak. The acceleration curve for AB is worse than an MWD, you may not attain the necessary speed to warp < 7.5secs (@max AB skill).
Cristl
#5 - 2016-02-13 10:34:11 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:

TimeToWarp = -ln(0.25) × Mass_kg × Agility / 1000000

-ln(0.25) is ln 4
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2016-02-13 11:14:39 UTC
Cristl wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

TimeToWarp = -ln(0.25) × Mass_kg × Agility / 1000000

-ln(0.25) is ln 4

Mathematically, yes.

Guido van Rossum (inventor of Python) once wrote, code is read much more often than it is written, so readability is important.

In terms of being tied into reaching 75% of max speed when aligning to warp, -ln(0.25) is clearer than ln(4).

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Indahmawar Fazmarai
#7 - 2016-02-13 11:48:34 UTC
Destiny Dain2 wrote:
Made a quick video showing a little trick I always use when travelling in those slow boat ships to get to warp quicker.

Hope it helps a couple people when travelling.

https://youtu.be/ArxO2t6mpGk


This is why travel-fit Orcas have a MWD. It really makes a difference.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#8 - 2016-02-13 12:10:40 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

TimeToWarp = -ln(0.25) × Mass_kg × Agility / 1000000

-ln(0.25) is ln 4

Mathematically, yes.

Guido van Rossum (inventor of Python) once wrote, code is read much more often than it is written, so readability is important.

In terms of being tied into reaching 75% of max speed when aligning to warp, -ln(0.25) is clearer than ln(4).

We should also not use the word "agility". There is no such attribute in the game. What is meant by that is "inertia modifier".
Cristl
#9 - 2016-02-13 16:12:45 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

TimeToWarp = -ln(0.25) × Mass_kg × Agility / 1000000

-ln(0.25) is ln 4

Mathematically, yes.

Guido van Rossum (inventor of Python) once wrote, code is read much more often than it is written, so readability is important.

In terms of being tied into reaching 75% of max speed when aligning to warp, -ln(0.25) is clearer than ln(4).

Then you would write: -ln (1-0.75)
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-02-13 19:17:28 UTC
Cristl wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

TimeToWarp = -ln(0.25) × Mass_kg × Agility / 1000000

-ln(0.25) is ln 4

Mathematically, yes.

Guido van Rossum (inventor of Python) once wrote, code is read much more often than it is written, so readability is important.

In terms of being tied into reaching 75% of max speed when aligning to warp, -ln(0.25) is clearer than ln(4).

Then you would write: -ln (1-0.75)

Clearly not of course. Otherwise that's the way it would have been done.

But of course, mathematically 0.25 is the same as 1000 - 999.75, so you know, could have just gone with that for example.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Cristl
#11 - 2016-02-13 19:47:14 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Cristl wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:

TimeToWarp = -ln(0.25) × Mass_kg × Agility / 1000000

-ln(0.25) is ln 4

Mathematically, yes.

Guido van Rossum (inventor of Python) once wrote, code is read much more often than it is written, so readability is important.

In terms of being tied into reaching 75% of max speed when aligning to warp, -ln(0.25) is clearer than ln(4).

Then you would write: -ln (1-0.75)

Clearly not of course. Otherwise that's the way it would have been done.

But of course, mathematically 0.25 is the same as 1000 - 999.75, so you know, could have just gone with that for example.

What the hell are you on about?!
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2016-02-13 19:58:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cristl wrote:
What the hell are you on about?!

He seems to be implying that there are many ways of arriving at 0.25, and that this would somehow be a reason not to include the percentage calculation that determines how long it takes to reach a given speed. What?


As for the OP, yes, old trick. It used to be really worthless with an AB but the change in how the skill works means it's now also an option for fiddling with the speed thresholds. As others have pointed out, though, just make sure you can actually accelerate to the required speed in one cycle, or you're better off fitting an MWD or just not using the AB at all.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2016-02-13 19:58:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Cristl wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:

Clearly not of course. Otherwise that's the way it would have been done.

But of course, mathematically 0.25 is the same as 1000 - 999.75, so you know, could have just gone with that for example.

What the hell are you on about?!

Thank god. Finally you get it.

ln(4) had absolutely no relevance to the subject of this thread and wasn't a choice CCP made.

So ln(4), -ln(1 - 0.75), -ln((100 - 75) / 100.0), -ln(1000 - 999.75), or just 1.386294361 are all equally irrelevant and add absolutely 0 useful content to the thread.

CCP chose -ln(0.25), for whatever reason and it's totally irrelevant whether mathematically that is equivalent to ln(4).

None of it is even relevant to this thread.

So ln(4), what the hell are you on about?

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#14 - 2016-02-13 20:07:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
CCP chose -ln(0.25), for whatever reason

The reason is because it's the same as -ln(1-0.75). As in “you have to reach 75% (0.75) of top speed.”
Writing it as 0.25 is just a shorthand that obfuscates why you arrive at that multiplier. It's not something CCP has chosen; it's just the outcome of the equation given the exact speed we're talking about.

The whole -ln(x) part of the equation is the generic function used to determine how long it takes to reach any given speed. It is part of the general equation for acceleration, which states that t(v) = I×M×10⁶×(-ln(1-v/vmax)) — v/vmax is just a way of saying “percentage of top speed”. Since warping happens at a fixed percentage (75%), we can simplify that last bit as saying -ln(1-0.75), which, if you don't care about the whys can be further simplified as -ln(0.25).

So Cristl is entirely correct: if anything, it should be written as -ln(1-0.75), since that's the constant we want to use. -ln(0.25) is acceptable, but not as readable since it skips important information. Hell, even rewriting it as ln(n) works, but it becomes really cumbersome at that point: now you're measuring “n:ths left 'till max speed” — at 75%, you have ¼ of max speed to go (n=4), which means we can write it as ln(4).
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2016-02-13 20:14:47 UTC
OMFG. These forums really are terrible for new players.

@Destiny, thanks for the video.

As a relatively new player (on another character) trying to soak up as much as I can, it was useful.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Cristl
#16 - 2016-02-13 20:18:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
CCP chose -ln(0.25), for whatever reason

The reason is because it's the same as -ln(1-0.75). As in “you have to reach 75% (0.75) of top speed.”
Writing it as 0.25 is just a shorthand that obfuscates why you arrive at that multiplier. It's not something CCP has chosen; it's just the outcome of the equation given the exact speed we're talking about.

The whole -ln(x) part of the equation is the generic function used to determine how long it takes to reach any given speed. It is part of the general equation for acceleration, which states that t(v) = I×M×10⁶×(-ln(1-v/vmax)) — v/vmax is just a way of saying “percentage of top speed”. Since warping happens at a fixed percentage (75%), we can simplify that last bit as saying -ln(1-0.75), which, if you don't care about the whys can be further simplified as -ln(0.25).

So Cristl is entirely correct: if anything, it should be written as -ln(1-0.75), since that's the constant we want to use. -ln(0.25) is acceptable, but not as readable since it skips important information.

Thanks. I wasn't trying to be being wanky when I made my earlier comments.

Whatever, let's let it go. Beers all around.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#17 - 2016-02-13 20:23:32 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
OMFG. These forums really are terrible for new players.

@Destiny, thanks for the video.

As a relatively new player (on another character) trying to soak up as much as I can, it was useful.


To be fair, the forum is hardly an ideal place for new players to learn how this game works. Sure, it can be helpful when you have a question about something that a search on any of the various wikis and how-to sites fails to turn up an answer to, but I think in-game communities -- such as your corporation and various help channels -- are a better route to take in the end. You're less likely to run into trolling and other various static/noise and actually get a decent answer to questions you would have.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."

Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#18 - 2016-02-13 20:48:29 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
OMFG. These forums really are terrible for new players.

@Destiny, thanks for the video.

As a relatively new player (on another character) trying to soak up as much as I can, it was useful.



Yes, there are a lot of angry basement dwelling neckbeard blowhards in this game who completely lack any form of social skills beyond "bite me".

As for OP, yes the AB can be better than MWD in some cases, but be certain to test run it to verify assumptions. Each Char will have a different experience depending on skills, fitting, and base hull.

Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
#19 - 2016-02-13 20:55:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Dain2
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
OMFG. These forums really are terrible for new players.

@Destiny, thanks for the video.

As a relatively new player (on another character) trying to soak up as much as I can, it was useful.



Yes, there are a lot of angry basement dwelling neckbeard blowhards in this game who completely lack any form of social skills beyond "bite me".

As for OP, yes the AB can be better than MWD in some cases, but be certain to test run it to verify assumptions. Each Char will have a different experience depending on skills, fitting, and base hull.



Yah, with small industrials it is good to fit the afterburner, but as you start moving up in mass you will need a MWD. One of the navigation skills increase the MWD cycle time. Which is not good for these smaller ships, it would be faster to jump normally.

I do not fly Capitals on tranquility, so I am not familiar with all the ships. If anyone knows of ships that are different and require different cycle numbers or something. Do not hesitate to throw it in here.
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
#20 - 2016-02-14 04:32:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark O'Helm
I still don't get it. What is "In"?

Can somebody make an align time calculation for an orca for example please?Shocked

"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen. Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher. Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)

"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)

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