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Eve devalued

Author
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2016-02-11 22:20:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Corvald Tyrska wrote:
I'm curious as to how exactly you see the net effect of buying skill injectors any different from buying characters on the character bazaar?

For years people willing to drop the cash have been able to buy characters with any amount of skills they wanted. The only difference now is that you customize those skills a little more and name the character how you want to name them. Perhaps you can explain why this level of customization deserves endless forum whining and complaining and how it is totally game breaking.

EVE is no more or less pay 2 win then it was in the past.


The difference is and will be scale. This feature is going to be an abject lesson to CCP of the folly of cash grabbing.

There are undoubtedly more people using this skill trading system than ever used the character bazaar. There will be many more people farming SP than their were farming characters. The character bazaar was ok, it was flawed, clunky and thus limited.

The people supporting skill trading are every bit as naïve as the people who argued with us back in 2009. CCP claimed Dominion Sov would be GREAT for small groups, and the...overly optimistic types agreed and some even proclaimed that the 'entrenched powers' were going to get what they had coming.

What they got was richer and stronger while the weaker folk got poorer...them absorbed into the CFC lol. What they did was complexly shut out the few small/independent types who had a bit of sov. As in EVERY case like this, the people who were supposed to benefit, mostly didn't, while the people who should have never been handed more advantages used the system to create even more advantages.

A few years later I was more than happy to gloat at CCP a bit when the truth finally set in (because it was so obvious and "blue donuty" that it could no longer be ignored). I plan on doing the exact same with this feature, after breaking the space-bank with SP farmed isk...that will probably be about as valuable as a Zimbabwe dollar by then.
stg slate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2016-02-11 22:49:12 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

There are undoubtedly more people using this skill trading system than ever used the character bazaar. There will be many more people farming SP than their were farming characters. The character bazaar was ok, it was flawed, clunky and thus limited.


Umm... have you forgotten that farming skill points actually, you know, costs RL cash?

And you could just buy a PLEX instead of paying for a ton of farm accounts, and not have to deal with the enormous hassle of running some giant hypothetical SP farm-army of alts?

This isn't some mystical free money source, you pay for it with your wallet, which you can already do today with PLEX.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2016-02-11 22:52:46 UTC
stg slate wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

There are undoubtedly more people using this skill trading system than ever used the character bazaar. There will be many more people farming SP than their were farming characters. The character bazaar was ok, it was flawed, clunky and thus limited.


Umm... have you forgotten that farming skill points actually, you know, costs RL cash?

And you could just buy a PLEX instead of paying for a ton of farm accounts, and not have to deal with the enormous hassle of running some giant hypothetical SP farm-army of alts?

This isn't some mystical free money source, you pay for it with your wallet, which you can already do today with PLEX.


Someone is paying cash. I'm not, i'm buying extractors with isk. It Is a free source of money, and a source I wouldn't have used otherwise, I would never be a character seller.
Myrradah
Apotheosis of Caledvwich
Ex Cineres bonum Faustum
#44 - 2016-02-11 23:03:57 UTC
I for one look forward to blowing people up in silly expensive ships with my t1 ship and laughing to the station as I drop their loot off to resell to them later.

You may have the SP but by no means does that mean you should be anywhere near it.

As Star Citizen continues to see people leave and come back / to Eve - they sell those accounts to other stupid people and come here and buy all the SP they want...


YUMMM!

I predict many tears when people realize that Skill points equal out eventually - meaning about 40 million SP into a combat specific toon your SP in the combat efficiency of that ship versus someone in the game since 2003 is negligible.

its the experience that matters.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#45 - 2016-02-11 23:32:12 UTC
To keep this short: CCP can't make a better game, and so they are selling the same old faulty game in a different way.

FAI, rather than make an awesome experience out of having 2 million SP, CCP sells SP to "lift" the "SP barrier" between start and "awesome".

"You should play our game because it stinks until you reach some arbitrary milestones and now we're selling you a fast track to some arbitrary milestone"

That doesn't works not even for leveled MMOs where the milestones are real. Go figure what for a sandbox where it is the player's right and duty to determine his milestones.
Doppleganger
Federated Holdings
#46 - 2016-02-11 23:41:06 UTC
It all how you see it... I feel that Eve is devalued and I'm no longer going to pay with cash accounts anymore. I spent almost 13 yrs paying with cash and today it comes to an end.

I will still try to play but I will just switch to doing it with plex from the isk I make and what I have saved up in the wallet and my assets.

I will leave the paying for eve in real cash to those that want to as these changes make me no longer want to do that.

I have played this game from the beginning I have seen the good improvements to the game and the plain stupid ones. Its CCP's game and property they can do whatever they want. I just can't tell if Eve is evolving or devolving but I know its the 1st time in all these yrs I have decided to pull my support for this game by the dollars I pay for it.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2016-02-11 23:53:24 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
FAI, rather than make an awesome experience out of having 2 million SP, CCP sells SP to "lift" the "SP barrier" between start and "awesome".
What can the do that they haven't already to make 2 million SP more attractive? And how would they do so without making all the same people angry? All the ideas I can think of don't really address the issue without either making the "I earned it and now their giving it away" crowd angry or the "All my SP is now useless" claim we've so often seen (which bears mentioning that this was pretty much just solved).

Generalizations make for nice jabs, but what specifically do you think they could offer?

Doppleganger wrote:
I will still try to play but I will just switch to doing it with plex from the isk I make and what I have saved up in the wallet and my assets.
I still think this to be one of the worst ways to protest against CCP. Not giving them your cash while soliciting someone else to spend even more real money than you would have with your isk. That's not really harming them.
Doppleganger
Federated Holdings
#48 - 2016-02-12 00:29:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Doppleganger
Quote:
Doppleganger wrote:
I will still try to play but I will just switch to doing it with plex from the isk I make and what I have saved up in the wallet and my assets.
I still think this to be one of the worst ways to protest against CCP. Not giving them your cash while soliciting someone else to spend even more real money than you would have with your isk. That's not really harming them.


Why would I want to harm CCP they gave me a wonderful game for so many years. I just dont want them in my wallet anymore, I have no problem selling their virtual goods I have earned over time to someone else for game time.

If someone else wants to pay cash for their virtual goods thats fine by me I just happen to have some of CCP's virtual goods I'm willing to sell.

I mean isnt that the whole spirit behind this selling of SP... It's CCP saying there are no more sacred cows in the game that everything is for sale so I'm just trying to get in the spirit and join along. After all its their game they are devaluing I'm just joining in.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2016-02-12 00:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Doppleganger wrote:
[Why would I want to harm CCP they gave me a wonderful game for so many years. I just dont want them in my wallet anymore, I have no problem selling their virtual goods I have earned over time to someone else for game time.

If someone else wants to pay cash for their virtual goods thats fine by me I just happen to have some of CCP's virtual goods I'm willing to sell.
My assumption here, and quite possibly an incorrect one, is that the move to using PLEX was intended as a means to state your displeasure regarding the state of the game with skill injectors present.

If that wasn't the intent, but rather just the idea that so long as it's not your money it's fine then what I said of course does not apply to your goal, but the decision is still beneficial to CCP.
Doppleganger
Federated Holdings
#50 - 2016-02-12 01:25:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Doppleganger
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Doppleganger wrote:
[Why would I want to harm CCP they gave me a wonderful game for so many years. I just dont want them in my wallet anymore, I have no problem selling their virtual goods I have earned over time to someone else for game time.

If someone else wants to pay cash for their virtual goods thats fine by me I just happen to have some of CCP's virtual goods I'm willing to sell.
My assumption here, and quite possibly an incorrect one, is that the move to using PLEX was intended as a means to state your displeasure regarding the state of the game with skill injectors present.

If that wasn't the intent, but rather just the idea that so long as it's not your money it's fine then what I said of course does not apply to your goal, but the decision is still beneficial to CCP.


Yes I believe the decision CCP made will be beneficial for them... I hope it gains them alot of customers that want to invest in the game for yrs to come like I did for 12+ yrs.


I did say in earlier post that I will try to play.... before all this it was always guaranteed that I would play because I was invested in the game. I am no longer invested in the game anymore so who knows.
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale
#51 - 2016-02-12 01:47:22 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
Linus Gorp wrote:


Skill trading is not pay to win. Those who think otherwise are the ones that will lose all their money and be podded back to World of Warcraft, where they belong.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9vEmr6V6c8


Then podded again.

Oh boy, that's glorious! Hahahahahaha

When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.

stg slate
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-02-12 01:48:58 UTC
Doppleganger wrote:
It all how you see it... I feel that Eve is devalued and I'm no longer going to pay with cash accounts anymore. I spent almost 13 yrs paying with cash and today it comes to an end.

I will still try to play but I will just switch to doing it with plex from the isk I make and what I have saved up in the wallet and my assets.

I will leave the paying for eve in real cash to those that want to as these changes make me no longer want to do that.

I have played this game from the beginning I have seen the good improvements to the game and the plain stupid ones. Its CCP's game and property they can do whatever they want. I just can't tell if Eve is evolving or devolving but I know its the 1st time in all these yrs I have decided to pull my support for this game by the dollars I pay for it.


If you do consider leaving at the end, consider donating your stuff, I've got 3 players who are newish to playing the game (as opposed to playing skill-queue online) who enjoy the game in its current format.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#53 - 2016-02-12 02:08:00 UTC
Doppleganger wrote:
It all how you see it... I feel that Eve is devalued and I'm no longer going to pay with cash accounts anymore. I spent almost 13 yrs paying with cash and today it comes to an end.

I will still try to play but I will just switch to doing it with plex from the isk I make and what I have saved up in the wallet and my assets.

I will leave the paying for eve in real cash to those that want to as these changes make me no longer want to do that.

I have played this game from the beginning I have seen the good improvements to the game and the plain stupid ones. Its CCP's game and property they can do whatever they want. I just can't tell if Eve is evolving or devolving but I know its the 1st time in all these yrs I have decided to pull my support for this game by the dollars I pay for it.

I concur with your thoughts. Though I've only being playing Eve for 2 1/2 years so I can't imagine the depth of your disgust from this change after playing the game for 13 years, you have my sympathy.

As it is Eve (now called WoSS) has completely lost all of it's PVE element and is now a pure PVP game. And as a mostly PVE player I find no reason left to continue playing this game. I was eventually going to migrate to PVP in time but I don't like being control or force into doing something until I'm ready. Ironically the only reason I haven't biomassed my characters and quit this game yet is because of the sentimental attachments I have to my chars that I created, trained and cultivated up till now. This type of sentimental attachment is something that these newscrubs won't ever experience and will leave Eve as soon as they get bored without any hesitation.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2016-02-12 02:33:27 UTC
Doppleganger wrote:
Yes I believe the decision CCP made will be beneficial for them... I hope it gains them alot of customers that want to invest in the game for yrs to come like I did for 12+ yrs.

I did say in earlier post that I will try to play.... before all this it was always guaranteed that I would play because I was invested in the game. I am no longer invested in the game anymore so who knows.
Well, the answer is simple. Look at what made you invested in the game. See if and how it changed and evaluate whether you're still invested accordingly.

Personally Eve for me was about developing my characters and achieving a series of self set goals alongside the fun of fitting and flying ships. There was in all reality not a single change to what I'm doing. There was a change in that others were no longer restricted to the same methods of character advancement, but that has no bearing on how I chose to play.

So what is it that you stand to lose?
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#55 - 2016-02-12 03:17:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

So what is it that you stand to lose?

More expensive PVE ships due to the swarms of suicide ganking toons that'll be created instantly and very frequently in Hi-Sec (something that I'm considering doing myself if I decide to stick around).

No point in grinding for isk as Jenn already explained. I can just use my alts to farm SP for isk if I need it, thus eliminating one of my main interest in the game.

Being a mostly PVE player atm , I was on the verge of trying out PVP. But now the one advantage I had is gone and now just about everyone will have max core, support, tank, gunnery, and ships skills from the get go. Not only that but they'll most likely bring pals who bought their way into WoSS the same way so now the PVP option is out.

For me this game has gotten much smaller and I spend more time in the forums whining then I do playing the game.
MidnightWyvern
The Bosena Accords
Round Table Assembly
#56 - 2016-02-12 03:17:53 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:
legit question, how do you "win" in EVE? what does "winning" mean to you? can you please give an example of "winning" in EVE? thank you.

Ignore this guys post. He is a troll and will troll you endlessly of this same question over and over again regardless of the facts you present to him.

To the OP, you are correct. This game have been greatly devalued with the addition of this pay2win feature and can no longer be called Eve. This game is now called World of Spaceships, Eve is dead!


i'm a troll? lol, look at our post histories and find out who's post are toxic and s2pid.

you choose not to answer my questions because you can't. this is not your typical themepark game wherein level and gear determines your success in clearing dungeons and raids.

Stop ruining his fun with reasonable statements.

Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!

Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)

Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2016-02-12 04:00:24 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

So what is it that you stand to lose?

More expensive PVE ships due to the swarms of suicide ganking toons that'll be created instantly and very frequently in Hi-Sec (something that I'm considering doing myself if I decide to stick around).
Gank alts were already trivial to make. I'd be very interested to see if there was anything resembling an increase in ganks, especially with the latest incoming EHP buff for ships without DCs.

Daniela Doran wrote:
No point in grinding for isk as Jenn already explained. I can just use my alts to farm SP for isk if I need it, thus eliminating one of my main interest in the game.
That's both Jenn and your choice to decide. If you chose to do the same and make your past training an isk source that's your choice. Those of us that aren't haven't trivialized any need for isk.

Daniela Doran wrote:
Being a mostly PVE player atm , I was on the verge of trying out PVP. But now the one advantage I had is gone and now just about everyone will have max core, support, tank, gunnery, and ships skills from the get go. Not only that but they'll most likely bring pals who bought their way into WoSS the same way so now the PVP option is out.

For me this game has gotten much smaller and I spend more time in the forums whining then I do playing the game.
That just sounds like typical excuse making. The same old "I'll PvP once I have 'x' SP" we've heard so much before. Yet others have done a great deal with less SP against those that have. And yet your complaint is about having an even playing field.

Lastly all of that is due to your choice in making it so. If you want isk to matter don't sell SP, if you want to PvP go do it and get good enough to not need the skill advantage, if you want to not spend more time on the forums than in game log on and play. Everything is within your power to resolve. SP trading took none of what you mentioned from you.
Hairtrigger
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2016-02-12 07:02:51 UTC
well, suppose the time has come

not really played for a few years now, but kept my skills training just in case i was gonna come back strong.

well, after 12+ yrs of none stop subs and 220m+ sp this is the final nail in the coffin for me, subs are getin stopped.

shall not be coming back untill that F&^king tool hilmar is sacked and they employ real developers again.

p,s, and yes you can have all my 50bil in isk and hundred plus fitted ships-if you can find me to ask, good luck!!
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#59 - 2016-02-12 07:26:39 UTC
Hairtrigger wrote:
well, suppose the time has come

not really played for a few years now, but kept my skills training just in case i was gonna come back strong.

well, after 12+ yrs of none stop subs and 220m+ sp this is the final nail in the coffin for me, subs are getin stopped.

shall not be coming back untill that F&^king tool hilmar is sacked and they employ real developers again.

p,s, and yes you can have all my 50bil in isk and hundred plus fitted ships-if you can find me to ask, good luck!!

You won't be the only one leaving this game soon. My 12 accounts will soon be canceled when resub time come rolling around again.

Now what should I do with the 180+ Bill isk worth of junk I've collected??
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2016-02-12 07:36:56 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:


Taking advantage of free candy isn't greed, it's taking advantage of free candy. you'd have had to be stupid to not cash in.

And failing to do so would have put me at a competitive disadvantage. The person who choose to not cash in is now at a disadvantage to me, I can lose Machariels in DED 10/10s twice a day for the next 30 days without feeling any pain where as the person who could have and didn't didn't do what I did loses one Mach and feels the pain instantly. Just using that as an exmaple, I don't lose ships in PVE.



well, looks like your free candy just gave you diabetis. You, yourself wrote that farming alts, had made you log in less. I assume you would only have mentioned that as you yourself sees it as a trend that will repeat. YOU took away the part of EVE that you enjoy, accumulating ISK. So even if "you'd have had to be stupid to not cash in", I am interested to know what adjective would you contribute to someone who slowly kills their own enjoyment of game, because they can't keep their hands of the free candy?

And regarding the competition thing, what good is it that you can loose a mach every day, if you slowly loose your interest in playing and don't log in? You just used the cheat codes to EVE, and will pay the consequence over time as you loose interest (Hope it was worth it).

As you generally don't compete 1:1 with people in EVE, being "competitive" also does not have too much meaning. You could still do your PVE things, and earn more than you can use, even if someone somewhere else in EVE can loose more machs a day than you. As EVE is that big geographically speaking. You can still get all the ISK you need without using farming alts (Which you, yourself have claimed is easymany times), and killing your interest in the game. In your head SP farming is not greed, as you justify it with it being an competitive necessity, in which I disagree.

I understand your point about CCP could have tried to avoid SP farming as it is a lame mechanic(but I also understand they have an interest in keeping the market supplied). But if it cheapens your game for you, don't use it. All the crap about being competative is only in your head, and has very little affect on your day to day gameplay IMO.



"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker