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[March] Heavy Stasis Grapplers

First post First post
Author
Umino Iruka
#241 - 2016-02-10 14:04:51 UTC
If your intention here is to REALLY help battleships, the range on these things needs to be fixed.

The fitting requirements for this thing AND the fact that it's supposed to be exclusive for battleships and larger ships, means it actually needs to have decent stats or these will get used only during the initial hype when they get released (much like target spectrum breakers).

Get out of your current train of thought which pushes you to give us useless things or conditionally useful things!

We don't need size specific webs which perform worse than their normal variants - add the current overheat range bonus into it's normal range value and reduce the overheat bonus to something like 50% (T2 = 4km unheated optimal + 10km falloff and 6km heated optimal + 10km falloff) - it also wouldn't hurt to add 1-2 km extra falloff on faction variants either because no hull/boost bonuses are allowed....


This new web type is not a bad idea, but I really feel you need to start fixing hulls and weapon systems/ammo types instead of inventing hull dependant modules which are supposed to do it instead. You are destroying much of the fitting varieties by forcing certain modules to be fitted onto certain hulls just to make the hulls viable to use.

Ethlinda
Doomheim
#242 - 2016-02-10 18:10:58 UTC
ya know this is cool and all. its about 8 years to late tho. these new modules need to be MUCH stronger. these arent frigates or cruisers. their for battleships. If you intending to help battleships in their solo/small gang they need to have modules that actually help them. this is worse than a web and battleships need to fit 2 webs or none at all. this wont help the normal badass battleships like abaddon get back into the small gang arena. they need stronger velocity reduction. battleship tracking is garbage
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#243 - 2016-02-10 18:59:39 UTC

As a small ship pilot, I find this module fairly disconcerting. BS's already have many choices available to allow them to take on small ships, why do they need more? Neuts with falloff now lets them drain even max orbiting inties, MJD's provide a "get in scram range or they get away" option, and now we are removing their Achilles Heel to close orbiting small ships. Grapplers have stronger strength and longer range than webs, which pragmatically implies that BS's will use them exclusively. A Grappled frig will move at 15% of max velocity, allowing BS weapons to apply significant damage to all but AB'ing frigs. I fear that 85% is too strong, but perhaps it is appropriate in some larger scheme that I am not seeing yet. Do you have any enlightenment on this?



Hiljah
Foo Holdings
AL3XAND3R.
#244 - 2016-02-10 19:12:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Hiljah wrote:
I love it. Especially with the range bonus Nidhoggers will get to it. I'm looking forward to the damper, ecm, and disruptor versions of this.


No bonuses budBlink


No bonuses from web bonuses. Watch the Nid get a grapple bonus.
Chill'4
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#245 - 2016-02-10 20:22:42 UTC
This is a cool new module and plenty strong enough in its current proposed form, however id like to raise a couple things.

Almost every Battleship will be silly not to fit one of these, so now we have less variation between fits. Also as most people will pair these with MJD's and choose to brawl, we end up with less variation between the ship hulls themselves.

These will definetly give Battleships a boost but imo should not be considered a fix or even part of a fix. Reason being is its treating a 'symptom' and not the cause/causes of the problem.
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#246 - 2016-02-11 02:58:23 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

As a small ship pilot, I find this module fairly disconcerting. BS's already have many choices available to allow them to take on small ships, why do they need more? Neuts with falloff now lets them drain even max orbiting inties, MJD's provide a "get in scram range or they get away" option, and now we are removing their Achilles Heel to close orbiting small ships. Grapplers have stronger strength and longer range than webs, which pragmatically implies that BS's will use them exclusively. A Grappled frig will move at 15% of max velocity, allowing BS weapons to apply significant damage to all but AB'ing frigs. I fear that 85% is too strong, but perhaps it is appropriate in some larger scheme that I am not seeing yet. Do you have any enlightenment on this?


Tbh I am quite fine with battleships wrecking frigs every now and then.

This coming from a guy who almost never flies battleships.

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Mystical Might
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
#247 - 2016-02-11 07:11:53 UTC
Since grapplers will work out to 2x falloff (roughly 23km+ for T2) I see no validation in the arguments of those asking for more optimal range. That isn't exactly what it's for, it isn't meant to challenge normal webs. I don't think they quite understand that; by having a difference in optimal ranges and a falloff bonus, it provides c h o i c e boiz.


You're not forced to fit this if you think the optimal isn't strong enough, but you'd be ignoring the silly (unlinked, unbonused) range that it gets. If the thought of not having a normal web hurts so bad, just fit a normal web in conjunction with these things.

Also Fozzie please don't scrap officer or deadspace grapplers - those are something I look forward to. I just think it best to introduce new ones, not convert what already exists. Ya know, further encourage choices.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#248 - 2016-02-11 21:24:29 UTC
Really cool module for a really cool concept.

Any chance for us to get those on T1 and T2 battlecruisers as well? Including attack.

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#249 - 2016-02-11 23:02:13 UTC
will bonuses to webs also effect grapples?
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#250 - 2016-02-12 00:25:53 UTC
Looking forward to wrecking close orbiting frigs and t3ds. +1
Mad Abbat
Talon Swarm
#251 - 2016-02-12 00:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mad Abbat
So whats about help in application to Conflag L (15km) and Scorch L (40km) boats, both are ammo for close range weapon system, both have hard time appying it DPS at optimal range vs any sub BS targets.


both standard webs and grapples are not up to the job.

Comments?
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#252 - 2016-02-12 00:39:17 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
will bonuses to webs also effect grapples?

no
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars
#253 - 2016-02-12 01:03:37 UTC
I'm sorry, Fozzie, in their current iteration these modules just aren't cutting muster. I will explain myself below:

1. They do not benefit from gang links which are employed by huge numbers of players. Gang links skew the optimal range of standard webifiers to the right.

2. Ships that boast stasis webifier bonuses do not apply any bonus to these new modules, leaving these modules as orphans.

I expect that these modules will become a niche unit, employed in rare ship setups.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#254 - 2016-02-12 01:34:43 UTC
Krevnos wrote:
I'm sorry, Fozzie, in their current iteration these modules just aren't cutting muster. I will explain myself below:

1. They do not benefit from gang links which are employed by huge numbers of players. Gang links skew the optimal range of standard webifiers to the right.

2. Ships that boast stasis webifier bonuses do not apply any bonus to these new modules, leaving these modules as orphans.

I expect that these modules will become a niche unit, employed in rare ship setups.


i can see blops using them

i can also see them being used in conjunction with tractor beams during citadel fights
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#255 - 2016-02-12 02:15:02 UTC
I'm also going to agree with the range problems, these still don't appear to be viable over a faction web besides cost. If someone has the ISK to throw at a wall faction webs will remain ideal unless faction grapplers have the same curve over their web counterparts and the same price tag.

The range needs to be high enough that the curve completely beats the web counterpart of the same meta at the very least. Even then I don't see these being viable at all when gang links and bhaalgorns with normal webs get compared to them.

If their base range is going to be so short then links and bonuses should apply.

The Drake is a Lie

Ace Lapointe
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#256 - 2016-02-12 02:19:51 UTC
Krevnos wrote:
I'm sorry, Fozzie, in their current iteration these modules just aren't cutting muster. I will explain myself below:

1. They do not benefit from gang links which are employed by huge numbers of players. Gang links skew the optimal range of standard webifiers to the right.

2. Ships that boast stasis webifier bonuses do not apply any bonus to these new modules, leaving these modules as orphans.

I expect that these modules will become a niche unit, employed in rare ship setups.


I am going to strap one to my Mega day they are released.. What are you on about?
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#257 - 2016-02-12 13:23:33 UTC
My got feeling, while doing pvp, says the optimal range should be 2k Cool

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Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#258 - 2016-02-12 14:25:43 UTC
I doubt these need extra range.
These grapplers are better than webs outside 8-11km. I imagine they will replace the first web on battleships that dont have bonuses.

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May Hoi
Doomheim
#259 - 2016-02-12 16:53:28 UTC
This is great, but when are we giving Command Ships a buff module like these? Blink
Meditril
Second Star
Cheese Party
#260 - 2016-02-12 18:27:34 UTC
So no Chance any more to survive with a frigate in close orbit below guns of an BS?
Bad news for frigate Pilots :-(