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Jita: Live Market Update - Skill Injector Prices Crashing
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Doppleganger
Federated Holdings
#161 - 2016-02-11 03:57:03 UTC
Chasida wrote:
But who is buying all these injectors?! Any high skill char has little use for them, the gained skills are low for high skill chars compared to the cost, so the return will be rather small.

The only use I can see for this is low skill alts. Not even new players are likely the buyers, because they will not have the ISK to buy them.

Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...

I do understand who all the sellers are, but I do not understand who all the buyers (and users) are! As I said only logical buyers I can come up with are low skill alts for players with A LOT of ISK.



Well I dont know if they were all bought off market but a char that had 238.5 mil sp on 2-9-2016 has 340.11 mil sp on 2-11-2016 and another char that had 249.93 mil sp on 2-10-2016 has 276.34 mil sp on 2-11-2016 according to Eveboard.

So there are high skill chars that have uses for them and the isk to gain that much sp at that low return. Thats quite a few injectors used in just those 2 examples.
pajedas
Doomheim
#162 - 2016-02-11 12:14:25 UTC
Doppleganger wrote:
Well I dont know if they were all bought off market but a char that had 238.5 mil sp on 2-9-2016 has 340.11 mil sp on 2-11-2016 and another char that had 249.93 mil sp on 2-10-2016 has 276.34 mil sp on 2-11-2016 according to Eveboard.

So there are high skill chars that have uses for them and the isk to gain that much sp at that low return. Thats quite a few injectors used in just those 2 examples.


Stromgren FTW!

🐇
Dr Mibbles
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#163 - 2016-02-11 12:41:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Mibbles
pajedas wrote:
Doppleganger wrote:
Well I dont know if they were all bought off market but a char that had 238.5 mil sp on 2-9-2016 has 340.11 mil sp on 2-11-2016 and another char that had 249.93 mil sp on 2-10-2016 has 276.34 mil sp on 2-11-2016 according to Eveboard.

So there are high skill chars that have uses for them and the isk to gain that much sp at that low return. Thats quite a few injectors used in just those 2 examples.


Stromgren FTW!


Crikey. He's increased by 100m SP over the last few days.

667 injectors @ 150k SP. Call it an average price of 650m.

That's 433,000,000,000 ISK... yes, 433bn isk

wow. And still only Fighter Bombers 4 Oops
Chasida
Instant Annihilation
#164 - 2016-02-11 13:00:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Chasida
Doppleganger wrote:
Chasida wrote:
But who is buying all these injectors?! Any high skill char has little use for them, the gained skills are low for high skill chars compared to the cost, so the return will be rather small.

The only use I can see for this is low skill alts. Not even new players are likely the buyers, because they will not have the ISK to buy them.

Or are some people just hoarding the injectors, to speculate in ISK? If so I fear they will burn themselves...

I do understand who all the sellers are, but I do not understand who all the buyers (and users) are! As I said only logical buyers I can come up with are low skill alts for players with A LOT of ISK.



Well I dont know if they were all bought off market but a char that had 238.5 mil sp on 2-9-2016 has 340.11 mil sp on 2-11-2016 and another char that had 249.93 mil sp on 2-10-2016 has 276.34 mil sp on 2-11-2016 according to Eveboard.

So there are high skill chars that have uses for them and the isk to gain that much sp at that low return. Thats quite a few injectors used in just those 2 examples.



Well that was an astronomical amount of ISK used!!
With a return of only 150 000 skill pr Injector, you have used 677 + 176 = 853 Injectors = roughly 597 BILLION ISK!!! Shocked
And for those 597 BILLION ISK!!! you got roughly 2 741 days (roughly 91 months) worth of training.

597 BILLION ISK is something most Eve players cannot even dream of making/hoarding. How you have been able to hoard that (pluss whatever you got left) with only max 2 accounts, maybe even one, is the question. Maybe mining for 10 years Ugh

Well at least that ISK is now spread more on to other players...

I for my part, am having a bit of a hard time justifying using Injectors for my lowbie alt, when they cost 650 000 000+, and just give me a return of about 10 days training pr injection (the full 500 000 skill points). So 1 Plex = 2 Injectors. I neither have the Plex or the ISK.

So in this aspect Eve has become 'Pay-To-Win', as long as the pilot is not a noob. Just buy a load of Plex with money, and trade in-game for Injectors, and voila you got skill points that will take others months or years to get.

PleaseSendISKKayThanxsBye hehehe Lol
Dr Mibbles
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#165 - 2016-02-11 13:39:10 UTC
some interesting market developments on skill injectors and extractors

There is now a huge and growing supply of extractors on the market.

Arrow In Jita, there are 1,300 Skill Injectors on the market
Arrow Whereas there are now 5,400 Skill Extractors

This is a huge change from the first few days where numbers were more-or-less even.

It currently profitable to buy plex in batches of 16, convert to AUR, get 70 extractors, then sell these on the market.

Arrow 16 plex = 20bn
Idea Convert to AUR, get 70 extractors
Arrow 70 extractors = 21bn

A quick, easy, 1bn profit. As more people do this, it appears to be creating an over-supply of extractors as well as sustained high plex prices. This over-supply of extractors could lead to a situation where there is a mis-match between the available SP to be extracted and extractors themselves.

The result? Could be an imminent price crash for extractors.
Imalia Bloodlines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#166 - 2016-02-11 17:51:06 UTC
Since this is a thread about speculations, let me ask, should I sell now my injectors or wait a bit?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#167 - 2016-02-11 17:56:25 UTC
Imalia Bloodlines wrote:
Since this is a thread about speculations, let me ask, should I sell now my injectors or wait a bit?
Up to you.

Chances are, injector prices will go up in the long term. Once the immediate rush to sell has passed, and the sale on extractors is gone and PLEX has continued to rise a bit, the prices will go up. The real questions you have to consider though are:
How much will it go up by?
and
How much can I make if I sell now and use the additional liquidity to trade/manufacture/whatever for profit?

The the latter is more than the former, then you should probably sell now as use the isk to trade/manufacture/whatever.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#168 - 2016-02-11 21:06:17 UTC
In terms of markets affected by injectors: Has the character bazaar activity taken a hit?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
pajedas
Doomheim
#169 - 2016-02-11 22:15:26 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
In terms of markets affected by injectors: Has the character bazaar activity taken a hit?

I don't see it driving the prices up.

The math is pretty scary already:

Buy a 20m SP player for extraction. Net of 15m SP's.

@500m (average) per 1M Sp's the cost would be 10b.

30 extractors will cost you 8.94b @298m each. (18.94 Total)

@100% 1,262,666,667 per 1m SP
@80% 1,578,333,333 per 1m SP
@60% 2,104,444,444 per 1m SP
@30% 4,208,888,889 per 1m SP

🐇
pajedas
Doomheim
#170 - 2016-02-11 22:53:37 UTC
I left out the easy and obvious math but thought I'd add it.

The diminishing returns are rather steep.

On that same 20m SP player the net SP's are:

0-5 = 15m SP's
5-50 = 12m SP's
50-80 = 9m SP's
>80 = 4.5m SP's

Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!

🐇
iBLACK MAMBA
The Monocled Elite
#171 - 2016-02-11 23:08:50 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
In terms of markets affected by injectors: Has the character bazaar activity taken a hit?


characters are now worth more in the bazaar

you can get about 350m profit per 500,000 skillpoints

so any character, doesn't matter what their specialism is, is now worth 700m per 1m skillpoints

i.e. a 50m SP char will now reliably sell for around 35bn, even if they have crappy skills
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#172 - 2016-02-11 23:14:36 UTC
pajedas wrote:
Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!
Au contraire my fellow forum person.

My 80M+ characters are quite happy where they are and the only reason they acquire more SPs is that it would be kind of dumb to be subbed and not training something.

Mr Epeen Cool
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2016-02-11 23:31:42 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
pajedas wrote:
Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!
Au contraire my fellow forum person.

My 80M+ characters are quite happy where they are and the only reason they acquire more SPs is that it would be kind of dumb to be subbed and not training something.

Mr Epeen Cool



Yeah, have a few characters that are training semi useless stuff because that is all I can find that they might someday use. I basically PLEX them to continue to use the char, but they already do everything they need to do so further training is kind of pointless. If there was a "PLEX for longer but no training" option I would opt for it.


AND ... before anyone suggests it ... I have way too much ISK already to bother selling off the excess SP .
pajedas
Doomheim
#174 - 2016-02-11 23:36:53 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
pajedas wrote:
Sucks to have over 80m SP's!!!
Au contraire my fellow forum person.

My 80M+ characters are quite happy where they are and the only reason they acquire more SPs is that it would be kind of dumb to be subbed and not training something.

Mr Epeen Cool

I should have put that in better context.

Sucks to have over 80m SP's if you plan on buying more!!!

🐇
Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#175 - 2016-02-11 23:40:51 UTC
Its simply sticks with the existing nature of Eve Online, incremental additional benefit costs exponentially more.

You know, time differences between training a skill from 1 to 2 versus 2 to 3 and etc, or even bonus stacking on mods.
pajedas
Doomheim
#176 - 2016-02-12 00:24:17 UTC
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
Its simply sticks with the existing nature of Eve Online, incremental additional benefit costs exponentially more.

You know, time differences between training a skill from 1 to 2 versus 2 to 3 and etc, or even bonus stacking on mods.


The difference kind sir is this...

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." ~Matthew 5:45 King James Version (KJV)~

In other words, the instances that you referenced were always the same (1:1) for each citizen of New Eden.

🐇
Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#177 - 2016-02-12 00:27:00 UTC
pajedas wrote:

In other words, the instances that you referenced were always the same (1:1) for each citizen of New Eden.



So will these, once the players get to that same level of total SP.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#178 - 2016-02-12 00:31:23 UTC
pajedas wrote:
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
Its simply sticks with the existing nature of Eve Online, incremental additional benefit costs exponentially more.

You know, time differences between training a skill from 1 to 2 versus 2 to 3 and etc, or even bonus stacking on mods.


The difference kind sir is this...

"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." ~Matthew 5:45 King James Version (KJV)~

In other words, the instances that you referenced were always the same (1:1) for each citizen of New Eden.
So are these if you want to include progressive expense as "1:1". Characters will all have the same return at the same SP, much as they have the same diminishing returns on training time as they advance in skill levels.
pajedas
Doomheim
#179 - 2016-02-12 00:44:05 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So are these if you want to include progressive expense as "1:1". Characters will all have the same return at the same SP, much as they have the same diminishing returns on training time as they advance in skill levels.

I wouldn't call it a diminishing return, per se. Longer training time to get progressively better at something makes sense to me.

Go to your local market and see if they change an old rich guy more for a pound of coffee than a poor young guy.

iBLACK MAMBA wrote:
characters are now worth more in the bazaar

you can get about 350m profit per 500,000 skillpoints

so any character, doesn't matter what their specialism is, is now worth 700m per 1m skillpoints

i.e. a 50m SP char will now reliably sell for around 35bn, even if they have crappy skills

Your math and reasoning are incorrect.

Please run the numbers again...

🐇
Barrett Fruitcake
Doomheim
#180 - 2016-02-12 01:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrett Fruitcake
pajedas wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
So are these if you want to include progressive expense as "1:1". Characters will all have the same return at the same SP, much as they have the same diminishing returns on training time as they advance in skill levels.

I wouldn't call it a diminishing return, per se. Longer training time to get progressively better at something makes sense to me.





You may not call it that per se, but it is a diminishing return.

Making sense to you or not does not validate if it is a diminishing return or not. Doing some simple math does.

IE.

Takes 1 of some action to get to Level B. Takes 2 more to get to C. = Diminishing return for your effort.
Get 10 benefit from some thing at this level. Get 8 benefit at next level = Diminishing return for your consumption