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Assault missile names

First post
Author
CobaltSixty
Fawkes' Loyal Professionals
#81 - 2012-01-10 21:34:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CobaltSixty
+1 for some simplification to the line-up, but having a different name for the guided and unguided missiles would be ideal. Part of the missile re-work that's due should be to better iterate on the practical differences between the two. The names aren't there to give a sense of scale, the missile type does that. As a side note, FoFs should use the guided names.

Something like this the list below would be ideal.

Guided - Light, Heavy, (Citadel) Cruise, and FoF Missiles

Cataclysm - Thermal
Thunderbolt - EM
Devastator - Explosive
Wrath - Kinetic

Unguided - Rockets, Assault Missiles, and (Citadel) Torpedoes

Inferno - Thermal
Mjolnir - EM
Fulmination (or Bane) - Explosive
Terror - Kinetic

Keeps the best of all the old names within the missile class while still significantly cutting down on the number of names people need to remember. Also, trauma is a terrible name - perhaps a new/renamed damage control would be a better home for this.
Taius Pax
State War Academy
Caldari State
#82 - 2012-01-10 21:37:02 UTC
CCP Lemur wrote:
CCP Gnauton is cleaning up lots of item names and reducing unneeded weird names. This should make it easier for people to figure out what does what and which is better in the great pile of meta items.

Sure, some people will moan about the loss of the unique names, but it makes no sense to have a new name for the same damage type for each missile type.


Here's some sarcastic moaning for you:

Great job! Kill more flavor - make the game more generic! Roll

Sometimes I don't think you guys can distinguish between real functional issues with the game and the flavor that makes EvE an interesting universe.

Having different missiles names at different levels is just part of the flavor.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#83 - 2012-01-10 22:44:22 UTC
Well this is an example of bad flavor. Meaningless names really.

Another example of bad Flavor would be +1, +2 Syndrome other games have had Curse you DnD.

What ccp has struck here is a name with meaning. I just wished they slightly interated into guided unguided and fofs at least.

True it might make things a bit bland but there are already 11,000 items in the game there is no need to be comming up with 11,000 names. Just like there are about 150,000 different npcs I just wished they went back and severly reduced the amount of kinds so that they can easily tweak things better.

I mean what if all of the sudden they decided that all the ammo we use in guns get the treatment of individual names thats going to be alot of new ammo we suddenly cant seem to remember all the types or even how good they are.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Selar Nox
#84 - 2012-01-10 23:34:34 UTC
Have to split this post (5 quotes limit):

Nova Fox wrote:
Selar Nox wrote:

[...]
To come to the inevitable RL-reference: Twisted
No one calls one of the most famous A2A-Missile Air-Intercept-Missile-9-with-explosive/kinetic-warhead. It's name is 'Sidewinder'. Period. And it's larger "cousins" only share the technical part of it's name and have their own nicknames, eg. AIM-7 'Sparrow'.


Or this is the oppertunity to change all the descriptions from smart warheads to dumb warheads since the 'guided' missils use computerize smart warheads to direct the detionation where at dumb warheads just explode with extra stuff normally eaten up by the computer.

Also we got like 20 different versions of the sparrow it gets confusing sometimes, hell sometimes depending where its mounted changes the damn nick name. Evolved Sea Sparrows oh my. What next Advanced evolved Sea Sparrows >< and another thing in aviation ordinace they do back hand you for calling it by its nickname for the above reason alone.

Just to prove a point.

F/A-18s A-G have various nicknames

Baby Hornet
Hornet
Super Hornet
Grizzly
Rhino
Growler

Oddly enough one variant has four of these names and if you look at it from anther angle it has 5. So what gives?

Oddly enough your example against unique names is exactly the opposite:
These names do NOT describe the same 'product'. These are names for different flavours of the same base machine (Super Hornet is an upgraded Hornet, Growler serves a complete different role - EWAR, etc.) These names help to distinguish the different versions and scenarios of usage!
On a sidenote: Grizzly is just a "backup-name" for the Growler cause it sounds to similar to Prowler, the predecessor of the Growler. So even the military already knows it is a bad decision to use same or even similar names for different stuff...

Nova Fox wrote:
Im quoting from another thread but see if you can pass this quiz.
Nova Fox wrote:


Okay Pop Quiz Time
I have an alphabetized list of all the warheads in eve,
Name thier damage types from memory alone

[long list of many cool and unique names]

Post Patch of when the name changes go though.

Okay Pop Quiz Time
I have an alphabetized list of all the warheads in eve post name change patch
Name thier damage types from memory alone

Inferno
Mjolnir
Nova
Truama



Also so much better to say stuff over chat like

Before Patch:

Shipscan Scout>> Thier dreads are carrying sol torpeodes
Defending Capship pilot about to undock in 10 seconds counter >> What damage type is that?
Shipscan Scout>> .... I dont remember I think EM.
Defending Capship pilot >> *Fits EM resistances dies much more horribly than expected.

After Patch:

Shinpscan Scout>> Dread with infernos inbound!
Defending Capship pilot >> Right on getting my fireproof suit. *Fits Thermal resistances dies not as horrible.

Do you see how boring your little quiz will get after the renaming? P

On a bit more serious note: This example of yours is part of the so often claimed player skill/knowledge (you remember, EVE isn't just about who has more skillpoints, real good things can only get achieved with skills of the player behind the pilot, blabla)
Btw, why should the scout remember inferno better than any other name?? Especially if the damage type is already included in the (unique!) name as proposed by many in this thread here...
Btw², in such a scenario you deserve to burn horribly P
Selar Nox
#85 - 2012-01-10 23:34:43 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
This goes back to the why is explosive damage not em therm and kinetic arguments at that point.

Also why do kinetic missiles explode they should slam into targets not explode on them.

They explode because with many small KINETIC penetrators the chance to hit your target is much bigger as with one single, sluggish missile.
Explosion warheads kill (mostly) alone with their blast (=shock wave), without kinetic penetrators (excluding fragments of the warhead housing, etc).

Nova Fox wrote:
I will point out the fallacy of using real world as an example becuase the 'names' are just there for civillians to use the new naming scheme is actually alot closer to something the miltiary would do.

That's simply not true. Or why does military personnel come up with names like Warthog, Grizzly, etc. They are even naming the aircrafts and other vessels and weapons of their enemies (see NATO code names for Soviet stuff).
Besides, there are other people in New Eden, not only military staff... Believe they are even called civilians... They are running corporations and stuff...


Nova Fox wrote:
Inferno
INcidenary Fueled Extended Reactive Noxium Oxide

Mjolnir
Massive JOlt Linear Narrowband IRradiator

Nova
NOcxium Vaporizing Apature

Truama
Terminal RUn ArMAment


You really want to tell me this is better to remember or to recognize as 'Foxfire Thermal Rocket'??? Shocked (You realized there is the damage type included, did you?)



Seriously, following your argumentation we can just name all missiles
Fox One
Fox Two
Fox Three
And while we are at it let's call all turret weapons
Fox Four
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#86 - 2012-01-10 23:38:33 UTC
Selar Nox wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
This goes back to the why is explosive damage not em therm and kinetic arguments at that point.

Also why do kinetic missiles explode they should slam into targets not explode on them.

They explode because with many small KINETIC penetrators the chance to hit your target is much bigger as with one single, sluggish missile.
Explosion warheads kill (mostly) alone with their blast (=shock wave), without kinetic penetrators (excluding fragments of the warhead housing, etc).

Nova Fox wrote:
I will point out the fallacy of using real world as an example becuase the 'names' are just there for civillians to use the new naming scheme is actually alot closer to something the miltiary would do.

That's simply not true. Or why does military personnel come up with names like Warthog, Grizzly, etc. They are even naming the aircrafts and other vessels and weapons of their enemies (see NATO code names for Soviet stuff).
Besides, there are other people in New Eden, not only military staff... Believe they are even called civilians... They are running corporations and stuff...


Nova Fox wrote:
Inferno
INcidenary Fueled Extended Reactive Noxium Oxide

Mjolnir
Massive JOlt Linear Narrowband IRradiator

Nova
NOcxium Vaporizing Apature

Truama
Terminal RUn ArMAment


You really want to tell me this is better to remember or to recognize as 'Foxfire Thermal Rocket'??? Shocked (You realized there is the damage type included, did you?)



Seriously, following your argumentation we can just name all missiles
Fox One
Fox Two
Fox Three
And while we are at it let's call all turret weapons
Fox Four

Thats what the pilots call them. If you purchase them its a whole other storyTwisted

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.

Selar Nox
#87 - 2012-01-10 23:50:17 UTC
Salpun wrote:

[...]
Thats what the pilots call them. If you purchase them its a whole other storyTwisted

I know... But that's exactly what I am talking about... *sigh*
Derus Grobb
Shifting Suns Industries
DammFam
#88 - 2012-01-11 00:20:40 UTC
I still don't get what is wrong with Trauma as a missile name?
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-01-11 00:28:11 UTC
Lets replace all drones, turrets and missile launchers with variations of "damage thing I".

There are a lot potential naming fixes out there:
Phase Inverter -> Minmatar Jammer
White Noise -> Amarr Jammer
Warp Disruptor -> Long Point
Warp Scrambler -> Short Point
Stasis Webifier -> Speed Reducer
Overdrive Injector -> Speed Increaser

Or, one generic module for all slots that we then load with a script of what it should be.

On a more serious note, this nerfs the market. New players might use the group view and get confused, but they are confused by everything. For people that actually know the items and only use the market via the search interface, things just got messy. You know the unique-ish parts of the names to navigate through everything. Like searching for regard, y-t8 or ' - standard' (important whitespace!).

Also I always liked the missile names better, even as a turret user. If a corpmate tells me the corphangar need scourge, antimatter, doom, scorch, plasma, mjolnir, dragon and fusion, for the missiles I know exactly what he wants and that we most certainly do not need dragons. For fusion, plasma, antimatter and scorch I have to ask back which size.

Eve was always a game where figuring something out for yourself meant something. An information advantage was a real advantage. It had meaning. With the addition of the t1 signifier to certain named items in the last patches I thought the goal was some consistency thing. Now, it looks like the goal is to make the game trivially obvious.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#90 - 2012-01-11 00:35:13 UTC
Ladar Jammer
Radar Jammer
Warp Space Discruptor
Warp Field Scrambler

There are dozens of ways to go into naming uniformity.

As long as they avoid the +1 shenanigans which I am afraid they are going to do with words like advanced and prototype and experimental.

Odd I distinctly remember pilots calling missiles 'birds' on all the shoot ex videos.

"Birds away."

Thing is about the nicknames is that they're not required for advancment or earning your rank on the knowledge boards matter of factly if you dare call anything that isnt its military specification number or miltiary designation you will get thrown out of that review board.

The F-18G is what I was referring to and you left out Rhino expliantion

The entire series is known as the hornet regardless of the technology and revisions within this is a money saving manuver way to convince the non military portion in congress its the same bird.

Hornet is what F/A -18 A-D are called on the MC in the flight pattern inbound allowing for the proper technicians to be ready to welcome it back to carrier.

Baby Hornet is technican's term of endearment for the F/A-18 A-D. Its also the specific term for any of the F/A-18 A+ which oddly enough is also another made up desgination by the technicans to sperate classic F/A-18 As and the F/A-18 with advanced electronics on par or beyond the F/A-18Cs.

Super Hornet is the nickname for any of the F/A- 18 E-Gs given to the public. They're known as Rhinos in field though due to thier size and a couple of tell tale features.

The G variant of the F/A-18 earned its new designation when it was warrented that a new airframe was required. If that wasnt the case it would have been another F/A-18F. Originally named the Growler after the EA-6B Powler the bird the "Growler" would be replace was quickly shot down by the brass because when you say Growler and Prowler inbound over the microphone and there are jet engines and other machines running it all sounds like "Owler inbound" so the Technicans shot back with another one the Grizzly going in theme to indicate its a larger bird than the hornet. Event then that is not final and even then its still just a super hornet on the bill of purchase.

Makes me wonder when they shove out the new builds though all the technicans are already jokingly calling it an 'Ultra' Hornet.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#91 - 2012-01-11 00:46:38 UTC
Now heres something they could do.

Renamed all the turrets into sized types

Few Examples

Strobe
Phaser
Machinegun
Cannon
Gauss
Coil
Pusle
Beam
Autocannon
Artillery
Blaster
Railgun
Vulcan
Rifel
Fragmentation
Accelerator

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#92 - 2012-01-11 00:51:05 UTC
Close to a decade of minmatars had fun with people suddenly realizing "repeating artilleries" are actually autocannons.
Why deny future generations?
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#93 - 2012-01-11 01:41:57 UTC


The missiles are the real issue here, because they are taking away the whole point of a NAME. To categorize and easily distinguish clearly different things.


If you want to add DESIGNATORS for damage type, then do that.

TH Rockets
EM Rockets
KN Rockets
EX Rockets


That's it.


Don't give them names that are deceptive. They are not the same thing, they should not be called the same thing.


If you want to rename the Y-T8 Afterburners, then I think that's stupid on principle, but fine - you're renaming it to something at least UNIQUE "Experimental Microwarpdrive".

Fine, I get it. You already renamed them once and screwed up all the killboards and databases, just might as well do it again.


But... "Mjolnir" for everything? Really?

Where I am.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#94 - 2012-01-11 01:46:21 UTC
Arent all guns in one shape way or form related to each other to the point you can simply name it description + previous item?

Like all railguns could just easily be chocked blasters.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#95 - 2012-01-11 01:46:42 UTC

Urm, no.

Those names are horrible.


Also, an 800MM weapon that shoots Small Buses is not a "Vulcan Autocannon".

That is definitely a "Repeating Artillery".


And Strobe? really...

Nova Fox wrote:
Now heres something they could do.

Renamed all the turrets into sized types

Few Examples

Strobe
Phaser
Machinegun
Cannon
Gauss
Coil
Pusle
Beam
Autocannon
Artillery
Blaster
Railgun
Vulcan
Rifel
Fragmentation
Accelerator

Where I am.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#96 - 2012-01-11 01:47:59 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:


The missiles are the real issue here, because they are taking away the whole point of a NAME. To categorize and easily distinguish clearly different things.


If you want to add DESIGNATORS for damage type, then do that.

TH Rockets
EM Rockets
KN Rockets
EX Rockets


That's it.


Don't give them names that are deceptive. They are not the same thing, they should not be called the same thing.


If you want to rename the Y-T8 Afterburners, then I think that's stupid on principle, but fine - you're renaming it to something at least UNIQUE "Experimental Microwarpdrive".

Fine, I get it. You already renamed them once and screwed up all the killboards and databases, just might as well do it again.


But... "Mjolnir" for everything? Really?



I think the names are to prevent autolinker from linking every possible type of resistance module in existence related to the damage.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#97 - 2012-01-11 02:36:01 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:


I think the names are to prevent autolinker from linking every possible type of resistance module in existence related to the damage.



That's not why they're changing the names or have them setup this way.


There's been plenty of other perfectly capable people here to explain why using ONE NAME for all missile types based simply on damage type is misleading to new players, annoying, lackluster and less valuable than having unique names for each missile.



Where I am.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#98 - 2012-01-11 03:29:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Well here's where CCP screwed up with that.

They didnt do it for the gun ammo either.

They didnt do this for all the variants of the same missile either.

I mean why does a dread guristas missile have to be same name as the caldari navy missile.

You'd think Cal navy would like make one Rabbit Killer and the Dread Guristas Dead Rabbit missile. While us 'civillians' get stuck with Rabbit missiles. Then tech 2s getting thier own names instead of just fury and rage name em like Harechaser and Usagi missiles;

Ultimately they didnt do this at the beginning but not here to what if.

If they ever did it this way then anytime I type in a auto link Ill only get two results.
The blueprint and the item itself. Which would be nice but I cant remember 12,000 names I have a hard enough time with 20.

Currenlty its extremly bad when I guess the number of an implant and its entirely wrong.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.

Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#99 - 2012-01-11 08:55:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ottersmacker
unique ship class names are bad taste in variety as well while you're at it, especially on t2 hulls since they're the same ship as t1 lol xD
it's also counterintuitive to new players who upgrade from say their Rifter to a Jaguar because they expect something new but then see it's pretty much the same ship, it should be called Rifter II or Rifter Experimental

i just locked an open door.. strange, yet symbolically compelling.

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#100 - 2012-01-11 09:07:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nova Fox
Ottersmacker wrote:
unique ship class names are bad taste in variety as well while you're at it, especially on t2 hulls since they're the same ship as t1 lol xD
it's also counterintuitive to new players who upgrade from say their Rifter to a Jaguar because they expect something new but then see it's pretty much the same ship, it should be called Rifter II or Rifter Experimental


There are over 150,000 different npc entities I rather start there.

Also it is a rifter, there is some stupid database call up that ID's the advanced versions as such however I think they removed it recently with carbonization though giving them proper call ups.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.