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Long Range Agility Inhibiters, aka the slingshot module
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Chill'4
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2016-02-10 21:11:26 UTC
If it has been posted before my apologies.

The basic idea is a module that has a negative affect on a ships agility but not its speed. Such a module would make it easier to 'slingshot' an enemy ship.

In my mind it is a mid slot module with a range higher than webs and lower than disruptors, i would say around 20km. It would have similar fitting to a web.

I think such a module would be balanced because once within scram range it provides little benefit while taking up a valuable mid slot.

what do you think?
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#2 - 2016-02-10 21:19:20 UTC
Its use would be limited but inherently I see no problem with such a module being added.

How much would the agility factor be though?

Too little and it's useless too much and it's overpowered.

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Chill'4
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2016-02-10 21:39:31 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
How much would the agility factor be though?

Too little and it's useless too much and it's overpowered.


Exactly, i would'nt like to guess at a factor without numbers and testing, but i think good timing should be neccesary to pull a successful slingshot.

it should be strong enough to pull into scram range if timed well, but weak enough not to if your timings off.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-02-10 21:52:30 UTC
Chill'4 wrote:
Arya Regnar wrote:
How much would the agility factor be though?

Too little and it's useless too much and it's overpowered.


Exactly, i would'nt like to guess at a factor without numbers and testing, but i think good timing should be neccesary to pull a successful slingshot.

it should be strong enough to pull into scram range if timed well, but weak enough not to if your timings off.


Your issue with this balancing number will be the rather vast range discrepancy between kiter's engagement profile. If you can slingshot an orthrus with good timing, you will be able to make any ship turn like a barn...
Chill'4
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-02-10 22:10:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Chill'4
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Your issue with this balancing number will be the rather vast range discrepancy between kiter's engagement profile. If you can slingshot an orthrus with good timing, you will be able to make any ship turn like a barn...


It would be balanced against unbonused disruptors, so it would not have the strength to slingshot an orthrus.

You probably couldnt us it against an orthrus anyway because of the 20km range and the orthrus probably having a defensive scram.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#6 - 2016-02-11 00:16:01 UTC
Here's the thing, there's a certain point where agility does affect speed. If you're orbiting at, let's say 20km, and you're going 4,000 out of 6,000 m/s, that's all and good, but if you reduce a ship's agility, then you have to drop your speed further in order to maintain that 20km orbit.

The idea seems okay, but it just seems... I dunno. I don't think we really need more ewar, and it seems like agility is one of the things that shouldn't be touched with, just because it doesn't make the game any more fun when somebody waves their hands and says "haha, you turn like a battleship now"

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2016-02-11 07:07:27 UTC
If you lower a ship's agility while they accelerate, and then abruptly end the effect, their velocity will not suddenly increase. There will be no slingshot effect.

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Hopelesshobo
Hoboland
#8 - 2016-02-11 07:12:05 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
If you lower a ship's agility while they accelerate, and then abruptly end the effect, their velocity will not suddenly increase. There will be no slingshot effect.


But.....space magic

Lowering the average to make you look better since 2012.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2016-02-11 13:22:23 UTC
Well CCP said they discovered that they could add nowadays coding into the old orbit mechanics, which they will work at. It might have some of these things you suggested (Just not in the form a module.)
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2016-02-11 16:13:40 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
If you lower a ship's agility while they accelerate, and then abruptly end the effect, their velocity will not suddenly increase. There will be no slingshot effect.


You would have to use the fact they can't turn well with the module active to slingshot yourself in or out. If you wanted to get closer to them, you could burn away, activate it then hard turn back in. Their low agility prevent them from effectively countering your hard heading change. The opposite could also be done. Burn toward them, activate it then hard turn away while their low agility prevent them from countering thus letting you open a wider gap.

It would probably require decent manual piloting skill to pull off some of those stuff especially in not so agile ships.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2016-02-11 18:47:11 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You would have to use the fact they can't turn well with the module active to slingshot yourself in or out. If you wanted to get closer to them, you could burn away, activate it then hard turn back in. Their low agility prevent them from effectively countering your hard heading change. The opposite could also be done. Burn toward them, activate it then hard turn away while their low agility prevent them from countering thus letting you open a wider gap.

It would probably require decent manual piloting skill to pull off some of those stuff especially in not so agile ships.

Oh I get it. I thought this was to slingshot ships into orbit or to high velocities. I see now that it is to slingshot an orbiting ship away from you by preventing them from turning. So it's a way to break free from a scrambler.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#12 - 2016-02-11 19:47:41 UTC
The thing is that this module would be a direct nerf to solo and small gang kiting, and I don't believe that kiting needs a nerf. The main problem with kiting isn't the way of attack, it's the more oppressive ships that dominate in the strategy. Kiting itself helps to bring more player skill and manual piloting into the equation, which is a better thing than lock target and F1.

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Chill'4
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2016-02-11 20:02:22 UTC
Bobb Bobbington wrote:
The thing is that this module would be a direct nerf to solo and small gang kiting.
I disagree that this module would hurt solo/small gangs, I can see this being a useful tool for kiters, a less agile opponent has a harder time to catch you, and as proposed this has a longer range than webs.

Bobb Bobbington wrote:
Kiting itself helps to bring more player skill and manual piloting into the equation, which is a better thing than lock target and F1.

I agree with you completely here, one of the reasons i think this mod would be balanced is because it requires manual piloting.
Arla Sarain
#14 - 2016-02-11 20:32:55 UTC
I like the premise of this and I'd rather let CCP figure out the details rather than +/- 1 based on speculation and hypothesis.

A module like this is needed - It doesn't magically catch a kiter and relies heavily on users observation. Use it wrong and you waste a cycle. Use it right and get a fighting chance where previously it would be entirely in the hands of the kiter and all up to him to make no mistakes.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#15 - 2016-02-12 05:32:20 UTC
The actual way this will get used is on capital ships along with bumps to keep them unable to control their own ship for long periods of time without any need to worry about actual tackle strength to stop them warping.
Steve Galaxius
Whole Squid
#16 - 2016-02-12 06:30:01 UTC
you think that stops at caps

this would be effective on battleships, battlecruisers, heck pretty much any armor cruiser

a single 500mn stabber w one of these things would be more effective than a hictor at holding things down