These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Market Discussions

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

The market in 2003
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
jon asgeir
After dawn
#1 - 2016-02-10 18:03:21 UTC
Anyone know how the market was in 2003 when the first players connected to tranquility?
Where the first ships seeded on the market?
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#2 - 2016-02-10 18:34:53 UTC
Yes the basics (frigates) were seeded iirc.. and you had to then buy the BPs to build bigger ones..

Also npc bought minerals, so there was a natural "floor" on value of them,,


It was "hard work" to get value to get your first cruiser, or battleship..

an advantage was you did not have skill limits to market orders, so you could source from a lot of locations, without risking your order limit.
Sugilite
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-02-11 05:50:03 UTC
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
Yes the basics (frigates) were seeded iirc.. and you had to then buy the BPs to build bigger ones..

Also npc bought minerals, so there was a natural "floor" on value of them,,


It was "hard work" to get value to get your first cruiser, or battleship..

an advantage was you did not have skill limits to market orders, so you could source from a lot of locations, without risking your order limit.

So do we know why the order limit happened, and why it is so low? Has it always been this low since the introduction of trade skills? Your character can be a "Tycoon' not even be able to buy and sell all the ammo. It would require 2 characters just to buy and sell T1, T2 and navy subcap, and not being able to touch pirate, advanced pirate or capital ammo at all.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#4 - 2016-02-11 07:02:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Cista2
Here is a piece I once wrote about the history of this forum and the market, after interviewing even that ancient guy Caleb lol

Unfortunately, every single link that I painfully inserted is now dead.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#5 - 2016-02-11 11:04:32 UTC
The main reason that skills were introduced were server issues and to add specialization..

I personally believe the servers were the major reason, primarily because market activity was a huge problem in hubs, were lag and pilot limitations would be really terribad. This was back when TiDi was not yet a thing, so you can imagine how terrible it was..

This was a time when server and client performance would cause lag and crash to desktop from launching to many drones into space at once.. So generally it was a very different time..

The reason they have not changed or done anything regarding markets and market skill tiers, I would suspect is because they deem the current balance more important than adding more options, and ofc the demand for big traders on more accounts is very likely a business issue.

Sadly it also mean that hubs are even more important, and that seeding wider and less populated areas is almost impossible.. The upside of that ofc is that travel is more "forced" and thus adds risk into the game from ganking and thus destruction..

With Citadels I do hope they reconsider the balance and philosophy of these matters, because we need motivation to risk assets and liquidity in player owned structures..
Aptenodytes
Reckless Abandon
#6 - 2016-02-11 14:35:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Aptenodytes
Anyone remember the superhighway? The main "hubs" were all 1 jump apart. Yulai, Rens, Ammar and TheCaldariOneThatIsntJita.

Oh, the tears when they removed that!!
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort
#7 - 2016-02-11 15:32:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Scotsman Howard
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
The main reason that skills were introduced were server issues and to add specialization..

I personally believe the servers were the major reason, primarily because market activity was a huge problem in hubs, were lag and pilot limitations would be really terribad. This was back when TiDi was not yet a thing, so you can imagine how terrible it was..

This was a time when server and client performance would cause lag and crash to desktop from launching to many drones into space at once.. So generally it was a very different time..

The reason they have not changed or done anything regarding markets and market skill tiers, I would suspect is because they deem the current balance more important than adding more options, and ofc the demand for big traders on more accounts is very likely a business issue.

Sadly it also mean that hubs are even more important, and that seeding wider and less populated areas is almost impossible.. The upside of that ofc is that travel is more "forced" and thus adds risk into the game from ganking and thus destruction..

With Citadels I do hope they reconsider the balance and philosophy of these matters, because we need motivation to risk assets and liquidity in player owned structures..



I agree with you in several areas as I do not believe Citadels will work as intended for markets.

- There are not enough people to allow for many more areas of the game to be properly stocked. Yes this would force more travel, but this is not good game play as nothing of value is added for a boring activity.

- Jita will never become a hub that is in a citadel as it would get blown up within a week. People will not sell in a station that can get blown up and then have to pay to get back their items.
Caleb Ayrania
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#8 - 2016-02-11 17:10:15 UTC
Scotsman Howard wrote:
Caleb Ayrania wrote:
The main reason that skills were introduced were server issues and to add specialization..

I personally believe the servers were the major reason, primarily because market activity was a huge problem in hubs, were lag and pilot limitations would be really terribad. This was back when TiDi was not yet a thing, so you can imagine how terrible it was..

This was a time when server and client performance would cause lag and crash to desktop from launching to many drones into space at once.. So generally it was a very different time..

The reason they have not changed or done anything regarding markets and market skill tiers, I would suspect is because they deem the current balance more important than adding more options, and ofc the demand for big traders on more accounts is very likely a business issue.

Sadly it also mean that hubs are even more important, and that seeding wider and less populated areas is almost impossible.. The upside of that ofc is that travel is more "forced" and thus adds risk into the game from ganking and thus destruction..

With Citadels I do hope they reconsider the balance and philosophy of these matters, because we need motivation to risk assets and liquidity in player owned structures..



I agree with you in several areas as I do not believe Citadels will work as intended for markets.

- There are not enough people to allow for many more areas of the game to be properly stocked. Yes this would force more travel, but this is not good game play as nothing of value is added for a boring activity.

- Jita will never become a hub that is in a citadel as it would get blown up within a week. People will not sell in a station that can get blown up and then have to pay to get back their items.


They would seed the citadels, and add the right markup, but the opportunity cost on the skill limit makes that highly unlikely. Risk versus reward as it stands is simply not worth it, and Citadels will not be seed if we do not get a really huge boost to market orders.. and contracts..

Ideally they should be "infinite" or per location limits, and sensitive to a market index similar to industry index.. for broker fees and taxes..

The optimal way to change this would be to make broker fee a station owner setting, and sensitive to standing with the corp owning the station/citadel, and the sales tax would be faction/alliance taxation and also sensitive to standing. On top of these would be added scc/concord tax that can be reduced by skills and security status, this would be reduced by security class of system, so totally zero and void in null wh space.
0000000000ZERO0000000000
Zero Zentharis
#9 - 2016-02-11 20:12:02 UTC
Cista2 wrote:
Here is a piece I once wrote about the history of this forum and the market, after interviewing even that ancient guy Caleb lol

Unfortunately, every single link that I painfully inserted is now dead.


Awesome read!

Also:

Quote:

'Nibelung' Particle Bore Stream V 30 Energy 20 32mW 1 133tf 22320m 148 ore units 5 60 sec Mining

It happened in the beginning of August 2003. The lead artist of CCP, Torfi Frans, went out in his 'newbie' Jove ship to show the newly modeled ship (and do some role-playing). To reward the player that he role-played with, named Saruu, he dropped the mining laser that he had on the ship into a can, and then messaged Saruu that he had left something outside and to undock immediately. Frans thought that this mining laser was not of much value, and that it was available as rare loot. Saruu was smart enough to realize that this mining laser was immensely valuable, and hence he contacted TTI. Ragnar gave him 50 mil for the laser, which at the time was a considerable sum. Following this a screenshot was published on the TTI website of the laser. Much uproar followed on the EVE-O forums, as this item never was intended to be given out to the players. In exchange for giving the tech 5 mining laser back to the devs, Ragnar were in exchange given a Mining Laser tech 2 BPO, which at that time were not out on the 'lottery'.


Screenshot
Ugh