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Skill Trading VS. /copyskills in SISI

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Author
Darth Behelzebhu
Lair of Demons
#1 - 2016-02-01 08:47:52 UTC
As we gathered, this pool of infinite SP is just to good to resist; telling us to "Not abuse it" is like saying a kid "Do not eat all the candy of the bowl in 1 day"; we all know that if he has 20 candy there, he'll eat 18 so technically being "obedient", but still way too much more than you wish he had.

Solution of this could be to time the command, as /copyships is (but not every 24 hours).
Time /copyskills to once every 1-2 months, or
Only allow /copyskills ONCE per mirror per toon


The command was meant to update players that come to the test server later in the mirror and helping reduce the amount of mirrors needed, so they could test their latest skills or a new ship; it has worked very good, for this matter, in many cases we have been able to "double train" in a way, giving another advantage to it, so it is a great command that should not be disabled.

However, there is no reason for the command to be available to use every minute.
As many players are not regulars of SISI, they may not set a long training queue in it, which is why option 2 of only once may not be the best, but surely needs a long timer on it.


CCP Habakuk
C C P
C C P Alliance
#2 - 2016-02-01 09:53:51 UTC
This is a very valid concern and was also discussed internally.

For now we will disable /copyskills completely and we will look further into possible solutions.

CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five 0 | (Team Gridlock)

Bug reporting | Mass Testing

Molly Duma
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2016-02-01 11:39:58 UTC
CCP Habakuk wrote:
This is a very valid concern and was also discussed internally.

For now we will disable /copyskills completely and we will look further into possible solutions.


Sad
Captain Cean
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#4 - 2016-02-01 12:09:16 UTC
Molly Duma wrote:
CCP Habakuk wrote:
This is a very valid concern and was also discussed internally.

For now we will disable /copyskills completely and we will look further into possible solutions.


Sad


ehm k

not a fan of this solution
Lee Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2016-02-01 15:02:39 UTC
Darth Behelzebhu wrote:
As we gathered, this pool of infinite SP is just to good to resist; telling us to "Not abuse it" is like saying a kid "Do not eat all the candy of the bowl in 1 day"; we all know that if he has 20 candy there, he'll eat 18 so technically being "obedient", but still way too much more than you wish he had.

Solution of this could be to time the command, as /copyships is (but not every 24 hours).
Time /copyskills to once every 1-2 months, or
Only allow /copyskills ONCE per mirror per toon


The command was meant to update players that come to the test server later in the mirror and helping reduce the amount of mirrors needed, so they could test their latest skills or a new ship; it has worked very good, for this matter, in many cases we have been able to "double train" in a way, giving another advantage to it, so it is a great command that should not be disabled.

However, there is no reason for the command to be available to use every minute.
As many players are not regulars of SISI, they may not set a long training queue in it, which is why option 2 of only once may not be the best, but surely needs a long timer on it.




I'd be happy with once per mirror, but per toon might be exploitable too, you figure you multi-box on TQ, have 3 accounts, each character on that account has 20-30mil SP each, you extract all their skills into injectors and boom you have nearly 300mil SP to play with.

Now that's assuming you're rich enough to run three accounts and a triple queue per account. You'll be running into one hell of a character. On SiSi that wouldn't be a problem, because it's SiSi, but on TQ it could cause some issues.
Bourne Xavier
Profiteering Privateers
#6 - 2016-02-01 16:32:15 UTC
getting 300m sp 500k/400k/300k at a time is going to be very time consuming. A delay of 5 or 10 seconds between extractions/injections might be enough to dissuade abuse. As would more frequent mirrors (over 2 months seems excessive). I dont see this as a big issue.
Mulkosalvan
#7 - 2016-02-01 18:16:47 UTC
î want my skills back xD
GoldSnake
Oblivion Watch
HYDRA RELOADED
#8 - 2016-02-02 00:02:38 UTC
It took me about an hour to extract 125 million skill points, any I only got a return of 20 million skillpoints from that, I think people are over exaggerating the potency of this with once per mirror.
DREDD 23
Newbie Friendly Industries
CeskoSlovenska Aliance
#9 - 2016-02-02 12:27:47 UTC
24 Hours cooldown will be good :)
Lee Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2016-02-02 12:35:56 UTC
DREDD 23 wrote:
24 Hours cooldown will be good :)


This would most likely be the better solution. It's a nice round number, people can test ships, modules, drones, mining, missions, scanning, running sites etcetera before the cooldown period is over. It'll give people that already have a skillset in one area to try out another, not just that either, but I feel like some people that say. like mining, can get a feel for what it's like on the other side of the trigger.

Maybe I'm being too cynical? Or not cynical enough.
Mishkara
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2016-02-04 21:31:40 UTC
IF copy skills is disabled... would there be a way to get 'snapshots' of our current skills? I've got a few ships I want to test on sisi that, would let me save several bil in ships if can be tested on sisi instead of live.
Mattias Volsung
Curiously Incompetent
The Glory Holers
#12 - 2016-02-08 02:46:25 UTC
Would it work to disable Skill Injectors instead on Singularity(and any test server?) I feel like that would be more reasonable as you could still use them by using the injector on your TQ toon then just /copyskills to singularity. I don't see much point in having the skill injectors enabled or available on the test server.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#13 - 2016-02-08 04:21:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Mattias Volsung wrote:
Would it work to disable Skill Injectors instead on Singularity(and any test server?) I feel like that would be more reasonable as you could still use them by using the injector on your TQ toon then just /copyskills to singularity. I don't see much point in having the skill injectors enabled or available on the test server.


remember the test server is to test upcoming builds of eve not mess around


disabling a feature could lead to bugs being missed and pushed onto tq
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#14 - 2016-02-08 17:22:45 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mattias Volsung wrote:
Would it work to disable Skill Injectors instead on Singularity(and any test server?) I feel like that would be more reasonable as you could still use them by using the injector on your TQ toon then just /copyskills to singularity. I don't see much point in having the skill injectors enabled or available on the test server.


remember the test server is to test upcoming builds of eve not mess around


disabling a feature could lead to bugs being missed and pushed onto tq


Well, considering that copyskills is not available on TQ, I don't think disabling it will make us miss any bugs.

That being said, it is unfortunate that it has come to this. Personally, I think having an unlimited SP pool on sisi for the duration of this testing cycle would allow us to test the new features more thoroughly.

Next mirror, it all disappears anyway. Not really sure why people are worried about SP on sisi. Its not like you get to keep it.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Lee Maulerant
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2016-02-08 17:58:06 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mattias Volsung wrote:
Would it work to disable Skill Injectors instead on Singularity(and any test server?) I feel like that would be more reasonable as you could still use them by using the injector on your TQ toon then just /copyskills to singularity. I don't see much point in having the skill injectors enabled or available on the test server.


remember the test server is to test upcoming builds of eve not mess around


disabling a feature could lead to bugs being missed and pushed onto tq


Well, considering that copyskills is not available on TQ, I don't think disabling it will make us miss any bugs.

That being said, it is unfortunate that it has come to this. Personally, I think having an unlimited SP pool on sisi for the duration of this testing cycle would allow us to test the new features more thoroughly.

Next mirror, it all disappears anyway. Not really sure why people are worried about SP on sisi. Its not like you get to keep it.


This guy has a reasonable point. Most players that still play on SiSi now have the SP they need anyway, I've fiddled around and landed on a Sleipnir (Which will now be my goal on TQ) and a Stiletto inty and it was nice to test. But I don't think that having players put injectors up for 70+ billion ISK each on the main station would be considered fun.

Although people did exploit it, and it's a little sad, it still didn't affect anything massively on SiSi, players got to play around with SOV, ship testing (From frigs to supers) and of course module testing on said ship. I've been playing around with Project Discovery and it was cool, if not a little.. well it's not been explained very well.

A possible setup could be putting the injectors up on the AUR store on SiSi for AUR currency of course, to whatever you think is reasonable but give players some AUR to play around with but limit it to a certain amount. Just a possible suggestion.

The one trouble I have on SiSi right now is when I'm out and about in my Cheetah, I scan systems with no cosmics (excluding player ships, drones & structures), no anomalies or sigs at all, is this intended or should I jump closer to 0.4 space?
Thomas Gallant
Quafe Company Courier Shipping
#16 - 2016-02-10 17:04:16 UTC
I think a good solution, albeit perhaps not the easiest adjustment to make, is to have any skills obtained via the /copyskills command unextractable, so that they max that one could get is to extract everything once, then /copyskills to get everything back.

Another option is that any extracted skills wouldn't be affected by the copyskills command.

neither is a really easy fix I don't guess, but I think it could work, if CCP wants to keep skill extractors seeded on future updates

Last resort would be just to not seed extractors at all next mirror and following.
Comodore John
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2016-02-10 20:51:06 UTC
Thomas Gallant wrote:
I think a good solution, albeit perhaps not the easiest adjustment to make, is to have any skills obtained via the /copyskills command unextractable, so that they max that one could get is to extract everything once, then /copyskills to get everything back.

Another option is that any extracted skills wouldn't be affected by the copyskills command.

neither is a really easy fix I don't guess, but I think it could work, if CCP wants to keep skill extractors seeded on future updates

Last resort would be just to not seed extractors at all next mirror and following.


All of this is more effort than it's worth for a sisi only feature. The time is better spent dealing with bugs or other issues. As far as extractors goes, nothing CCP does short of disabling the purchase of them (which will lead to people just hording market hubs for them so solves nothing and could lead to bugs regarding purchasing appearing) will stop players from obtaining them. AUR is as simple as going on market and buying a stack of Plex or AUR coins and using those.

Copyskills has been around for less than a year, it's not an essential need on the test server. It'll just need to go back to if you want to test new stuff, attend mass tests or now buy injectors (never will be seeded so steal from market hubs before they run out). If your queue is long enough any training you had ongoing from the time the mirror was taken until the point you logged in should still be ongoing/finishing.
Destiny Dain2
Your Destiny Corporation
#18 - 2016-02-11 07:36:18 UTC
Give me my /copyskills and mass tests anyday. I would like the extractors not to be seeded on Singularity and we get our copy skills back.
Max Croxford
Ethereal Legion
Ethereal Legion.
#19 - 2016-02-11 15:52:41 UTC
Destiny Dain2 wrote:
Give me my /copyskills and mass tests anyday. I would like the extractors not to be seeded on Singularity and we get our copy skills back.

I'm with this person, if people want to abuse skill extractors/injectors they should do it on tq and copy it over. Give it a cost for them.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#20 - 2016-02-12 01:20:15 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Mattias Volsung wrote:
Would it work to disable Skill Injectors instead on Singularity(and any test server?) I feel like that would be more reasonable as you could still use them by using the injector on your TQ toon then just /copyskills to singularity. I don't see much point in having the skill injectors enabled or available on the test server.


remember the test server is to test upcoming builds of eve not mess around


disabling a feature could lead to bugs being missed and pushed onto tq


Well, considering that copyskills is not available on TQ, I don't think disabling it will make us miss any bugs.

That being said, it is unfortunate that it has come to this. Personally, I think having an unlimited SP pool on sisi for the duration of this testing cycle would allow us to test the new features more thoroughly.

Next mirror, it all disappears anyway. Not really sure why people are worried about SP on sisi. Its not like you get to keep it.


did you read who i was responding to i was talking about disabling injectors not /copyskills
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