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Dev blog: Structure fitting in the EVE: Citadel Expansion

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#61 - 2016-02-10 19:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP: To help with all the concerns about fuel, I recommend you take advantage of something that you already built into citadels: Infinite storage.

Store the fuel in a hangar, one big stack that can handle months of use, so I do not have to deal with it very often.




CCP needs to come out on how they plan to have citadels charge these fuel blocks for industry..
i mean how many blocks would it take to cook up ships/mods

do they think 1 person would be the only one making things in a citadel?? what about the fuel cost of 100 builders running jobs at various times throughout the day?

the numbers are way off.. and detached from reality.

My guess: A industry service module uses xx blocks per hour, irrelevant of use level. Why do I think that? The reprocessing plant is 5 blocks an hour, and there seems to be no limit on how much it can reprocess in that hour, or how many people can use it at once. In addition, CCP got rid of "manufacturing slots". I doubt they will bring them back in citadels.

Edit: Maybe the fuel cost will vary with role. A standard medium industry plant will use one fuel amount, but will only be able to make T1 stuff up to battleship size.
An advanced plant will use more fuel per hour, but make both T1 and T2.
A large plant will use still more fuel, require a large citadel, and can male up to capital ships.
Then the extra large.... well, you get the idea.

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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#62 - 2016-02-10 19:07:30 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP: To help with all the concerns about fuel, I recommend you take advantage of something that you already built into citadels: Infinite storage.

Store the fuel in a hangar, one big stack that can handle months of use, so I do not have to deal with it very often.




CCP needs to come out on how they plan to have citadels charge these fuel blocks for industry..
i mean how many blocks would it take to cook up ships/mods

do they think 1 person would be the only one making things in a citadel?? what about the fuel cost of 100 builders running jobs at various times throughout the day?

the numbers are way off.. and detached from reality.

By the looks, you cannot produce in Citadels in the first place. You can only reprocess and compress. There will be specific production plant structures at a later stage. And judging by the dev blog, there is no per job cost for things like production but a module cost to run that module and with that module you can run as many jobs as you want.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Iski Zuki DaSen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#63 - 2016-02-10 19:09:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Iski Zuki DaSen
what is the base offices a large citadel will get and what is for XL ?
what is the 8/40/WIP/WIP for t1 rig and
16/40/WIP/WIP for the t2? can you specify those plz?

(i gues WIP stands for Work In progress?)
Richard Bong
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#64 - 2016-02-10 19:22:37 UTC
Querns wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

Another question: adding 400 stront to the build reqs of fuel blocks increases the m^3 required to build fuel blocks considerably. Is this intended? I'd argue to lower the m^3 of stront, but that has knock-on effects with regards to siege, triage, and titans. Are there any metrics on how much stront gets used in a given time period due to POS reinforcement, across all of Eve?



Considerably is kind of an understatement. "stront is 3m3 per unit. so, if you're doing 20k runs(not at all unreasonable), that's 24 million m3 in cargo just for the stront" that is 24 fully expanded freighters. Even cutting that number in half is way too much, cutting it down to just 40 is still 2.4 million m3.

This isn't including the cost for 20k runs with 400 stront which is now an extra 6.4b isk at current prices.

I really hope you take a look at the stront requirements again.

[ASK] Me about drive by thread shitting!
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#65 - 2016-02-10 19:26:00 UTC
Richard Bong wrote:
Querns wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

Another question: adding 400 stront to the build reqs of fuel blocks increases the m^3 required to build fuel blocks considerably. Is this intended? I'd argue to lower the m^3 of stront, but that has knock-on effects with regards to siege, triage, and titans. Are there any metrics on how much stront gets used in a given time period due to POS reinforcement, across all of Eve?



Considerably is kind of an understatement. "stront is 3m3 per unit. so, if you're doing 20k runs(not at all unreasonable), that's 24 million m3 in cargo just for the stront" that is 24 fully expanded freighters. Even cutting that number in half is way too much, cutting it down to just 40 is still 2.4 million m3.

This isn't including the cost for 20k runs with 400 stront which is now an extra 6.4b isk at current prices.

I really hope you take a look at the stront requirements again.


Looking at 50 freighter trips for my weekly fuel needs for just the stront. gosh how excited I am about that
Manssell
OmiHyperMultiNationalDrunksConglomerate
#66 - 2016-02-10 19:34:46 UTC
Lelira Cirim wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:

If the medium citadel is intended to replace a POS, does it share one attribute with a POS:

Everything I have ever read about this topic gives me the impression this is a misconception. The POS is not ready to be replaced yet.

"Small" structures are what POSes currently are in the design docs. They will be replaced with new "small" structures for rapid deployment for common POS purposes.

Happy to admit that I'm also mistaken, if only to reinforce that there is a lot of bad intel still flitting about.


Yea, I'm getting a bit confused by the messaging from CCP on this too. It does look like the new citadel really doesn't 'replace' the small and medium POS's. I can see how the medium citadel is a replacement for a large POS (in functionality and price), but there seems to be a hole in the lineup that small and medium POS's fill now.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#67 - 2016-02-10 19:35:28 UTC
Firvain wrote:
Richard Bong wrote:
Querns wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

Another question: adding 400 stront to the build reqs of fuel blocks increases the m^3 required to build fuel blocks considerably. Is this intended? I'd argue to lower the m^3 of stront, but that has knock-on effects with regards to siege, triage, and titans. Are there any metrics on how much stront gets used in a given time period due to POS reinforcement, across all of Eve?



Considerably is kind of an understatement. "stront is 3m3 per unit. so, if you're doing 20k runs(not at all unreasonable), that's 24 million m3 in cargo just for the stront" that is 24 fully expanded freighters. Even cutting that number in half is way too much, cutting it down to just 40 is still 2.4 million m3.

This isn't including the cost for 20k runs with 400 stront which is now an extra 6.4b isk at current prices.

I really hope you take a look at the stront requirements again.


Looking at 50 freighter trips for my weekly fuel needs for just the stront. gosh how excited I am about that

Resurrection of the convoys. You should rejoice.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Alain Colcer
Nadire Security Consultants
Federation Peacekeepers
#68 - 2016-02-10 19:39:14 UTC
Would it be possible to understand what yield % in reprocessing the astrahaus medium sized citadel will get when stationed in high-sec and using the specialization module "reprocessing plant" plus the rig "medium reprocessing effiency II"

not sure if the plant facility gives any basic % yield in reprocessing, or the max amount of reprocessing value with the rig will be 54%.

If its the latter, it is a tad low, given that the citadel is vulnerable to war-decs, and not better than a NPC station.

On the other hand the XL-citadel named Keepstar, how does it compare to a fully upgraded Minmatar outpost dedicated to reprocessing ores?
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#69 - 2016-02-10 19:56:37 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Firvain wrote:
Richard Bong wrote:
Querns wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

Another question: adding 400 stront to the build reqs of fuel blocks increases the m^3 required to build fuel blocks considerably. Is this intended? I'd argue to lower the m^3 of stront, but that has knock-on effects with regards to siege, triage, and titans. Are there any metrics on how much stront gets used in a given time period due to POS reinforcement, across all of Eve?



Considerably is kind of an understatement. "stront is 3m3 per unit. so, if you're doing 20k runs(not at all unreasonable), that's 24 million m3 in cargo just for the stront" that is 24 fully expanded freighters. Even cutting that number in half is way too much, cutting it down to just 40 is still 2.4 million m3.

This isn't including the cost for 20k runs with 400 stront which is now an extra 6.4b isk at current prices.

I really hope you take a look at the stront requirements again.


Looking at 50 freighter trips for my weekly fuel needs for just the stront. gosh how excited I am about that

Resurrection of the convoys. You should rejoice.


I already have 10 freighters, that is quite enough tbh. Got other more important **** to move lol
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#70 - 2016-02-10 20:00:06 UTC
Milla Goodpussy wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
CCP: To help with all the concerns about fuel, I recommend you take advantage of something that you already built into citadels: Infinite storage.

Store the fuel in a hangar, one big stack that can handle months of use, so I do not have to deal with it very often.




CCP needs to come out on how they plan to have citadels charge these fuel blocks for industry..
i mean how many blocks would it take to cook up ships/mods

do they think 1 person would be the only one making things in a citadel?? what about the fuel cost of 100 builders running jobs at various times throughout the day?

the numbers are way off.. and detached from reality.


Huh?

Its going to take a set amount per hour per array. Whether 0 or 100 people use said array its going to take that set amount of blocks per hour to keep it running. Pretty simple math. And the numbers they have so far of 10-40 blocks per hour...not what I would call off or detached from any reality.

And I'm guessing they'll have a Fuel Bay that everything runs from. Probably why they have everything take fuel at the top of the hour no matter what, that way you know when all your ***** gonna go offline!
Lineothel
Matari Retail Corporation
#71 - 2016-02-10 20:09:14 UTC
Quick question on the possibility of using the Citadel as a revenue producing mechanic.

If I fit the market, clone and office modules to my Citadel, I understand that there will be NPC taxes involved in their operation according to the Dev Blog. My question is will the corp that launches the Citadel be able to reap some of the tax money, office fees, brokers fees etc of the different types of transactions that occur at its Citadel?

Thanks!
Lineothel
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#72 - 2016-02-10 20:12:20 UTC
Firvain wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Firvain wrote:
Richard Bong wrote:
Querns wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

Another question: adding 400 stront to the build reqs of fuel blocks increases the m^3 required to build fuel blocks considerably. Is this intended? I'd argue to lower the m^3 of stront, but that has knock-on effects with regards to siege, triage, and titans. Are there any metrics on how much stront gets used in a given time period due to POS reinforcement, across all of Eve?



Considerably is kind of an understatement. "stront is 3m3 per unit. so, if you're doing 20k runs(not at all unreasonable), that's 24 million m3 in cargo just for the stront" that is 24 fully expanded freighters. Even cutting that number in half is way too much, cutting it down to just 40 is still 2.4 million m3.

This isn't including the cost for 20k runs with 400 stront which is now an extra 6.4b isk at current prices.

I really hope you take a look at the stront requirements again.


Looking at 50 freighter trips for my weekly fuel needs for just the stront. gosh how excited I am about that

Resurrection of the convoys. You should rejoice.


I already have 10 freighters, that is quite enough tbh. Got other more important **** to move lol


Not only will it be a pain in the ass for production, but if this change rolls out while POS are still the only way to moon mine, its gonna raise some mineral/T2 prices. Currently just adding that stront will raise the cost of a small tower by 50mil a month. Thats not including the probable massive spike in stront value as supply is going to be so much higher and supply the same.
A Research Alt
Perkone
Caldari State
#73 - 2016-02-10 20:21:50 UTC
strontium use in fuel blocks is ill-conceived and should not be implemented
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#74 - 2016-02-10 20:27:22 UTC
it looks like ccp has some idea that folks should pvp in it judging by the fitting window.

wow this is what you're doing to your player housing in this game. sorry not impressed at all. its a tedious isk sink that is nothing but a loot piñata waiting for goons or PL or the like to just come on in and drop supers, etc on.. just to have its residents go batshit crazy over losing their house.

yet you pretend you think about the casual/little guy...

ccp you're full of it.. this is not going to work.

hey can i roam in the citadel since it fits like as hip now?

how does warp scams on a citadel act??/

you mean to tell me an XL citadel can only lock onto 8 targets not 800 since that's whats going to be thrown at her?
RainReaper
RRN Industries
#75 - 2016-02-10 20:29:46 UTC
I have one question here!
I know that citadels have their asset safety mechanic that protects inventories and such upon being destroyed.
So keeping expensive things like bpos and such in there is no problem cause you wont completely lose those if the citadel gets blasted.
However! Is manufacturing/research stations gonna have that same kind of asset safety? If not then people are really gonna risk it if they put their blueprints in one of those, personaly i would not use those then and just use my citadel for all my research/manufacturing, no matter how inefficient it is.
Andraea Sarstae
Circle of Steel Inc.
#76 - 2016-02-10 20:41:31 UTC
"Unlimted Personal and Corporation Hangars provide residence for even the largest of Alliances."

This is currently listed here: http://updates.eveonline.com/coming/spring/

Yet, you have rigs that increase the number of offices in a citadel.

Does that line from the webpage actually mean "unlimited storage space"?
Mr Omniblivion
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2016-02-10 20:55:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Omniblivion
I am all for a change in stront consumption; however, this change to fuel blocks shoild be introduced only once existing POS starbases are removed.

Stront consumption is not changing much simply by releasing citadels. In fact, we will probably see more siege cycles. Stront usage will fall only when POS are removed from the game, at which time it would make sense to make the stront change in fuel.

Adding a stront requirement to fuel with the release of the first citadels would be catastrophic to the tech 2 market as fuel cost would skyrocket and drive up the cost of all t2 items. Not to mention, you'd have to immediately change the size of stront or the raw requirements or the supply of stront to keep up with the immediate demand of thousands of towers across eve, each requiring 9 stront per block.
Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#78 - 2016-02-10 21:15:28 UTC
Mr Omniblivion wrote:
I am all for a change in stront consumption; however, this change to fuel blocks shoild be introduced only once existing POS starbases are removed.

Stront consumption is not changing much simply by releasing citadels. In fact, we will probably see more siege cycles. Stront usage will fall only when POS are removed from the game, at which time it would make sense to make the stront change in fuel.

Adding a stront requirement to fuel with the release of the first citadels would be catastrophic to the tech 2 market as fuel cost would skyrocket and drive up the cost of all t2 items. Not to mention, you'd have to immediately change the size of stront or the raw requirements or the supply of stront to keep up with the immediate demand of thousands of towers across eve, each requiring 9 stront per block.



THIS!
David Zeta
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#79 - 2016-02-10 21:19:58 UTC  |  Edited by: David Zeta
Unless they make fuel blocks about seven times as massive, which I don't think can be considered feasible, you're also going to have a way to move enormous amounts of Stront at a low m^3 via reprocessing.

If you do make fuel blocks that much larger, I shudder to think of the logistics involved with WH supply.

Looooooks like someone didn't think about volume and it's tag-on effects before adding Stront to the fuel block mix.
Tara Anju
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2016-02-10 21:46:24 UTC
I have a question I have been wondering about for quite some time even before the new structures where even announced: what are market services in stations or in future market hub service modules good for ?

Since I can access the market through the main EVE menu at any time and anywhere - even in space - and can buy or sell items on any station even if it does not have a market service ... why on earth should I waste a service slot on fitting a market hub module ?