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Why we cant warp to empty space in EVE
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Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#41 - 2012-01-10 21:54:36 UTC
Quote:
It would also make it stupidly easy to escape from PvP and go AFK whenever you like, which is bad game design.


Most likely. This, I feel, is the greatest reason why we don't see manual warp and only selectively warpable objects. More than any argument based on laws, physics, realism, nav computers, etc.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-01-10 23:27:01 UTC
i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#43 - 2012-01-11 00:21:04 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Open world is just that, open. EVE is not open. EQ1 wasn't open. They were just a series of rooms connected with various doors to chokepoint player interaction, which breaks down to gate/station camping.


Early in EVE's history, when you jumped through a gate, you appeared in the destination solar system at a random point in space, not 15km from the exit gate. Gate camping took place in the inbound gate (no warp to zero).

Back then, you could also fit multiple microwarpdrives to your ship and fly off in any direction at hundreds of thousands of km/sec.

The Deep Space probes had a deviation of 90AU. Which meant you could scan for your own ship, and get a warpable hit as much as 90AU away in any direction. Lather, rinse, repeat, and you obtain bookmarks thousands of AU from the star.

EVE used to be a LOT bigger.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#44 - 2012-01-11 00:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Herping yourDerp wrote:
i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose



Well, lets say you could set a distance to X and punch warp no matter where you were facing - basically this renders the align speed of a ship useless in terms of a balancing feature.

Ships could no longer be bumped out of alignment, and slow ships would have just as much GTFO ability as a frigate. (EDIT - except for the acceleration difference, from a standstill a frig still has an advantage)

At any point in combat, no matter how bulky a ship you were, you could warp out of danger to a safe spot instantly assuming you were at 75% speed.

If nothing else, I see this as a huge drawback because it would reduce the number of fights that occur, not increase them.

And this wouldn't render probes useless, lets say I'm able to warp straight forward 1 AU from anywhere in space - say, away from a gatecamp. If I'm not at a celestial or other object, no one could find me anyways. Someone might detect me on D-Scan, but that won't tell them how far away I am from them or if warping that distance will land them on top of me. You'd still have to use probes to be accurate.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#45 - 2012-01-11 00:28:09 UTC
arcca jeth wrote:
answer is, there's nothing out there so why would you want to go there? there's literally NOTHING there


That's why one would want to go. Have you ever wanted to hide in plain sight? If you're a player from before the 20AU nerf, you certainly have bookmarks that allow you, in some systems, to warp to a safe within the 20AU wall, that is nevertheless beyond the range of any d-scan from any celestial object.

Can't make those bookmarks now.
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#46 - 2012-01-11 00:49:18 UTC
I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#47 - 2012-01-11 00:53:45 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off.


I want a Pony with a 500m damage doomsday given to me every time I dock in a Pod.

Demon Ibis-Pony of Doom™

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#48 - 2012-01-11 02:30:17 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off.


I want a Pony with a 500m damage doomsday given to me every time I dock in a Pod.

Demon Ibis-Pony of Doom™


I just want starcakes.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#49 - 2012-01-11 02:33:51 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
I want to be able to smash a button and do a random warp off.


Just remembered. There is a button for that. See in the top right of your Eve window, that little 'x' button? That does what you're asking for. Hit Button > Warp off in Random direction.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#50 - 2012-01-11 06:58:32 UTC
Guillame Herschel wrote:
arcca jeth wrote:
answer is, there's nothing out there so why would you want to go there? there's literally NOTHING there


That's why one would want to go. Have you ever wanted to hide in plain sight? If you're a player from before the 20AU nerf, you certainly have bookmarks that allow you, in some systems, to warp to a safe within the 20AU wall, that is nevertheless beyond the range of any d-scan from any celestial object.

Can't make those bookmarks now.





Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping).

I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Halcyon Ingenium
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2012-01-11 07:20:39 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
If memory serves me most si-fi I can think of dose in fact at some point discus the dangers of and reasoning why you can't just go some were with out proper navigation.(at least Fire Fly, Star Trek, and Star Wars do) Also going in a strait line for ever has a 100% chance of collision with some thing. I do like the fact that I can't just murder my crew and my self buy dropping out of warp in a star or getting flung in to the "gap" between stars because of shabby navigation.

Most do, the reasoning being that said pilot doesn't want to take the chance of warping into space occupied by matter. Very small chance, but people in the future are both not stupid and also not deathist (i.e. Don't want to die/see death as a bad thing). Obstensibly this also applies to the ships A.I., limited as it is, not limited to the extent to make it suicidally stupid enough to take a risk like that.

By the way, since we're already talking, do you want to buy a rifter? I've got the cheapest rifters in Metropolis. If you can find a cheaper rifter, buy it!
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#52 - 2012-01-11 10:40:42 UTC
But our ships do have crew, just less than there non-pod conter parts.
And I would like to think that they would mutany if you tryed Smile

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-01-11 11:19:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Janis Ezra wrote:
I wonder why its not possible to just press a warp button, configurate a range, and just warp wherever you want?
FiS feels so linear, everything just happens in certain areas which are/look the same in every system. It feels you are flying in an endless tunnel.

Opinions?


Theoretically? I'd say warping into a system would require you to know the Star's class, which would define its gravitational circumference. That would tell you at which point it's zenith and nadir were at so you could warp in or out without having your ship ripped to pieces from gravity.

From a system to system point of view the computer would need something to lock on to to approximate warp in locations. Between stars is a very long distance and without using the star as a guide pinpointing your ship to land anywhere near said locale would be impossible. Even with super sophisticated computers.

I believe the stargates represent the zenith and nadir that's most closest to the system you're jumping from.

Now this isn't represented within in-system jumps for the sake of gameplay. Technically, in system warp would be drastically slower. Between stars there isn't alot of junk to collide with but in system you'd have to go much slower to avoid collisions and gravitational influences.
Grateler
People's Front of Offugen
#54 - 2012-01-11 16:34:11 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
i fail to see how combat would be any less linear if you could warp anywhere. the same fights would happen just combat scanner probes lose purpose


It was created before combat scanner probes existed.

At that point you could have just warped away from PVP and just hide forever.

Of course people worked out how to create safe spots so that was one way around if you had been to the system before.


Now with combat probes there is less of a reason not to be able to do so, but would you really be able to lock down a target in the time he arrived at the random spot and then warped off to a new spot, repeat.....
Guillame Herschel
Buffalo Soldiers
#55 - 2012-01-11 20:14:22 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Guillame Herschel wrote:
Can't make those bookmarks now.


Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping).


At 4000 m/sec, it will take you 432 days of real-time flying to reach just 1AU.

Quote:
I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes.


That was nerfed almost 2 years ago. Every bookmark beyond the 20AU wall has been nerfed to be within the wall.
stoicfaux
#56 - 2012-01-11 20:34:07 UTC
How is it our probes can warp to arbitrary points in a system without the need for bookmarks or celestials?

probe navigation > ship navigation

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#57 - 2012-01-11 20:45:41 UTC
Dr Karsun wrote:
Now we have better computers, higher top speed, but can't just hit the "GO *****, GO!" button and burn till we'r out of fuel.

I find that bad, but I can live with that.


Nerf tackling! Tacklers have it too easy, anyway.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
Karl Planck
Perkone
Caldari State
#58 - 2012-01-11 20:53:38 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
How is it our probes can warp to arbitrary points in a system without the need for bookmarks or celestials?

probe navigation > ship navigation



exactly what I wondered. It has to do with the positioning of the probes in the solar system map. If only we could use the dscan to show us were we are looking at and make a spot to warp to. Like a probe but a moveable bookmark.

However, in order to be effective we would have to be able to zoom in a hell of a lot farther otherwise the same ping pong problem would exist for finding safes now.

I has all the eve inactivity
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#59 - 2012-01-12 06:56:35 UTC
Guillame Herschel wrote:
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Guillame Herschel wrote:
Can't make those bookmarks now.


Why not? It just takes longer now than it used to, afaik. I've never hit any invisible wall from flying way to far out with an interceptor(admittedly, I only had patience for a few hundred thousand KM from the un-scannable bookmark I made stutterwarping).


At 4000 m/sec, it will take you 432 days of real-time flying to reach just 1AU.

Quote:
I also seem to remember a trick for using your e-warp to make those off the wall safes.


That was nerfed almost 2 years ago. Every bookmark beyond the 20AU wall has been nerfed to be within the wall.

Doesn't change the fact that you can put them in odd places with e-warp, and as for taking 432 days... Thats never stopped anyone in this game, and back when I started I was offered large sums of noob money to fly in a given direction as fast as I could to sell deep safes.

Never tried it, I'd rather shoot statues in jita than fly for weeks into nothingness

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
KrakizBad
Section 8.
#60 - 2012-01-12 07:01:12 UTC
Hah and here I thought that telling newbies to mine was the worst thing you could do to them. "Fly forever away from everything and go do something else." Great intro to EVE that.