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My Response to Force Auxiliary and Fighter Skillbooks - Now rant-Free!

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Tineoidea Asanari
Liga Freier Terraner
Northern Coalition.
#21 - 2016-02-10 11:27:39 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP removed a role from the carrier as a needed nerf. Just because you got nerfed is not a reason for more SP, as so many people say every time a nerf happens and the few people cry about it.


Carriers right now can do two things: Damage and Healbot. I like the split into two hulls for these jobs, as slowcats really were a problem.
But now we have two 14x skills which cost 500 mio per race. That is the ridicolous part. CCP, please reduce the multiplicator and the cost. Most people I've spoken with saw a reason why carrier skillbooks are that much more expensive than dreads, but there is no reason to keep the prices so high after the split. As it is now, it fucks with both old and new players.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#22 - 2016-02-10 11:43:22 UTC
Tineoidea Asanari wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP removed a role from the carrier as a needed nerf. Just because you got nerfed is not a reason for more SP, as so many people say every time a nerf happens and the few people cry about it.


Carriers right now can do two things: Damage and Healbot. I like the split into two hulls for these jobs, as slowcats really were a problem.
But now we have two 14x skills which cost 500 mio per race. That is the ridicolous part. CCP, please reduce the multiplicator and the cost. Most people I've spoken with saw a reason why carrier skillbooks are that much more expensive than dreads, but there is no reason to keep the prices so high after the split. As it is now, it fucks with both old and new players.


I really hope ccp realise this as an issue

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Lavayar
Haidamaky
UA Fleets
#23 - 2016-02-10 12:55:11 UTC
Tineoidea Asanari wrote:

But now we have two 14x skills which cost 500 mio per race. That is the ridicolous part. CCP, please reduce the multiplicator and the cost. Most people I've spoken with saw a reason why carrier skillbooks are that much more expensive than dreads, but there is no reason to keep the prices so high after the split. As it is now, it fucks with both old and new players.


Well noticed!
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2016-02-10 13:01:34 UTC
Loroseco Kross wrote:
ISDs locked my last thread for ranting. Fair enough, it was a rant. I have re-worded my argument to be more constructive, highlighting the valid points I made

I currently own 2 perfect Archon pilots (T2 triage, Amarr carrier 5, fighters 5), meaning I have two characters that can use a carrier both for a DPS role and for a triage tole. However, yesterday this appeared in markets across New Eden. The price, I'm not too concerned about. It's the training that gets to me.

Now, let's do some rough maths. A pilot with perfect remaps and +4s trains about 2600sp/hour. To get my two Archon pilots to the same utility they have now, I will have to train for a total of 156 days on both accounts. That's 6 PLEX, or 33 skill injectors. So either 7.2bil per account if I'm patient enough to train, or 15-20bil in injectors (300k sp per injector). This means that I personally will have to choose between spending 30-40bil ($250 of Aurum) or just spending 14-15bil on PLEX and then waiting around for 5 months.

Bear in mind that I only have Amarr carrier 5 on my two pilots. Anyone with all carriers to 5 will have to train for 328 days to maintain the same utility post-Citadel that they currently have today.

While I hope that this was just a poor balance decision, observations like this have been made recently, and one can only wonder if this is deliberate. This seems to me like a cash grab, abusing players such as myself that are devoted enough to the game to bear with the changes and buy our way back to wear we were.

Any devs who read this - any comment? I may well be wrong about accusing you of making this a cash grab, and I welcome being proven wrong by a logical explanation to these changes, or plans to look at skills again. My Reddit thread highlighting this issue has gained a fair bit of traction, so I'd say this is an issue you definitely cannot ignore.

tl;dr New skill training is a terrible idea, possibly even a cash grab


I fully support the idea in the past people who had the necessary skills when ship skills were diveded gained some SP --> it seems to be appropriot to do the same here too.

+1
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#25 - 2016-02-10 13:23:29 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tineoidea Asanari wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP removed a role from the carrier as a needed nerf. Just because you got nerfed is not a reason for more SP, as so many people say every time a nerf happens and the few people cry about it.


Carriers right now can do two things: Damage and Healbot. I like the split into two hulls for these jobs, as slowcats really were a problem.
But now we have two 14x skills which cost 500 mio per race. That is the ridicolous part. CCP, please reduce the multiplicator and the cost. Most people I've spoken with saw a reason why carrier skillbooks are that much more expensive than dreads, but there is no reason to keep the prices so high after the split. As it is now, it fucks with both old and new players.


I really hope ccp realise this as an issue



Bad news, CCP confirmed that actually dread is the outlier. No current fix plans though.
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2016-02-10 13:24:45 UTC
Ensuring that a DPS capital ship cannot be oppressive with remote repairs by splitting them into separate roles is a reasonable design choice. I will have to agree with the OP that imposing additional SP seems unnecessary to achieve that.

There are already enough skills to differentiate the roles:

Carriers
  1. Fighters (x12)
  2. Fighter Bombers(x12)
  3. Support Fighters (x12)
  4. Light Fighers (x12)


FAX
  1. Tactical Logistics Configuration (x8)
  2. Capital Remote Repairs (x10)
  3. Capital Shield Transport (x10)
  4. Capital Capacitor Emission Systems (x10)



I do support the concept behind this thread but I do not support the calling out of CCP over 'money grabbing.' I not ruling out that money may have motivated their decision, but the questions of 'why' needs to be part of a separate discussion as it will only muddy the waters.
Strata Maslav
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2016-02-10 13:30:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Strata Maslav
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Tineoidea Asanari wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
CCP removed a role from the carrier as a needed nerf. Just because you got nerfed is not a reason for more SP, as so many people say every time a nerf happens and the few people cry about it.


Carriers right now can do two things: Damage and Healbot. I like the split into two hulls for these jobs, as slowcats really were a problem.
But now we have two 14x skills which cost 500 mio per race. That is the ridicolous part. CCP, please reduce the multiplicator and the cost. Most people I've spoken with saw a reason why carrier skillbooks are that much more expensive than dreads, but there is no reason to keep the prices so high after the split. As it is now, it fucks with both old and new players.


I really hope ccp realise this as an issue



Bad news, CCP confirmed that actually dread is the outlier. No current fix plans though.


Expensive skill books are a boring ISK sink. I do agree that ISK sinks are needed but the actual training requirements for most of these ship are large hurdles without the need for an ISK requirement.

If you want an example of an interesting ISK sink you only have to look at the wardec system.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#28 - 2016-02-10 13:35:57 UTC
So adapt. Changes wouldn't really be worth it if every time they made a change they fixed it so you are unaffected by the change.

The thing is, they made a mistake way back when they made the original promise to make sure everyone can do everything they could following every change. They should just tell people what the change will be, dump the link to the HTFU video and move on.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Gadget Helmsdottir
Gadget's Workshop
#29 - 2016-02-10 13:46:52 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
So adapt. Changes wouldn't really be worth it if every time they made a change they fixed it so you are unaffected by the change.

The thing is, they made a mistake way back when they made the original promise to make sure everyone can do everything they could following every change. They should just tell people what the change will be, dump the link to the HTFU video and move on.


Yes, because that worked oh-so-well for Incarna.

--Gadget

Work smarter, not harder. --Scrooge McDuck, an eminent old-Earth economist

Given an hour to save New Eden, how would respected scientist, Albertus Eisenstein compose his thoughts? "Fifty-five minutes to define the problem; save the galaxy in five."
Harkin Issier
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2016-02-10 14:03:34 UTC
Posting because I think the way this was handled is supreme bullshit.

You took one hull, broke it in half, and then expect people to pay you $$$ to be able to continue using both halves.

That's disgusting.

Make it so FAXes use the racial Carrier skill.
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#31 - 2016-02-10 14:15:15 UTC
Quote:
17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.

As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread.


While I appreciate you taking the time to re-word your old post so that it comes across in a more constructive manner, please note that CCP already has a thread open regarding this and you should leave your feedback there. Thanks!

ISD Fractal

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
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