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Caldari Ships good at pvp?! (Or, where people argue about ECM IMBAL)

Author
Nazir Sheik Muhammad
Doomheim
#121 - 2012-01-10 22:13:14 UTC
Smabs wrote:
Eagle is the most obvious one that really, really needs a boost.


Med rails should be buffed first, tbh. It's clearly not ever going to be blaster material.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#122 - 2012-01-10 22:21:54 UTC
While they're at it, they should boost fittings on the Caracal, NCaracal, Cerb, and Nighthawk. They almost seem balanced around undersize boosters and ABs and that's just not ok.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Nazir Sheik Muhammad
Doomheim
#123 - 2012-01-10 22:33:08 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
While they're at it, they should boost fittings on the Caracal, NCaracal, Cerb, and Nighthawk. They almost seem balanced around undersize boosters and ABs and that's just not ok.

-Liang


Agreed.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2012-01-11 01:35:01 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
While they're at it, they should boost fittings on the Caracal, NCaracal, Cerb, and Nighthawk. They almost seem balanced around undersize boosters and ABs and that's just not ok.

-Liang


Except in the case of the Nighthawk, I'd have to say the fitting is fine. Although the Navy Caracal is better in most ways to the Cerb, which is a bit bizarre.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#125 - 2012-01-11 02:26:38 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
While they're at it, they should boost fittings on the Caracal, NCaracal, Cerb, and Nighthawk. They almost seem balanced around undersize boosters and ABs and that's just not ok.

-Liang


Except in the case of the Nighthawk, I'd have to say the fitting is fine. Although the Navy Caracal is better in most ways to the Cerb, which is a bit bizarre.


Claiming NH fitting is fine.... r u trolling m8?

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2012-01-11 04:42:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Liang Nuren wrote:
Claiming NH fitting is fine.... r u trolling m8?

-Liang


That's the exact opposite of what I said. To expand, the NH's fitting is not fine, it should be able to at least rock a large shield booster. That the Navy Caracal and Cerb can't really active tank is fine since neither can most other shield HACs.
Khrage
#127 - 2012-01-11 04:55:39 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
While they're at it, they should boost fittings on the Caracal, NCaracal, Cerb, and Nighthawk. They almost seem balanced around undersize boosters and ABs and that's just not ok.

-Liang


Except in the case of the Nighthawk, I'd have to say the fitting is fine. Although the Navy Caracal is better in most ways to the Cerb, which is a bit bizarre.


slinging heavy assault missiles from 45-65km out > any navy caracal. if you have the skills, the cerb will always be better than the navy.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2012-01-11 05:56:46 UTC
Khrage wrote:
slinging heavy assault missiles from 45-65km out > any navy caracal.


I'll take your word for it.

Quote:
if you have the skills, the cerb will always be better than the navy.


[Caracal Navy Issue, Nano]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I


Warrior II x3

vs.

[Cerberus, Nanocerb (2x lse)]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon Microwarpdrive
Large Shield Extender II
X5 Prototype Engine Enervator
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Warp Disruptor II

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
[empty high slot]
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I

For nanogangs ofc.

Navy Carac is faster, more agile, in the linked fit does only 20 less DPS (with some of that being drone DPS and so better for taking down frigs), less overall EHP but more EHP against EM damage, and cheaper. Trying to redress the speed/agility disadvantage of the Cerb by dropping a BCS for a nano means it's still slower, less agile and now does less DPS.

edit: the navy carac even has +2 sensor strength over the cerb, wtf ccp
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#129 - 2012-01-11 06:03:48 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Liang Nuren wrote:
Claiming NH fitting is fine.... r u trolling m8?

-Liang


That's the exact opposite of what I said. To expand, the NH's fitting is not fine, it should be able to at least rock a large shield booster. That the Navy Caracal and Cerb can't really active tank is fine since neither can most other shield HACs.


Oh. Right.

/hangheadinshame

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#130 - 2012-01-11 13:42:48 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Railguns are good too


eeh, not to sure on that one

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#131 - 2012-01-11 15:21:44 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Railguns are good too


eeh, not to sure on that one


They're not the highest damage things, no, but I've had great fun with rail-Harpy, rail-Enyo, rail-Cormorant, etc. They're great for engaging from where your enemy can't hurt you.

Large rails are also being used a lot lately by people like Pandemic Legion, who have integrated the Rokh into their fleet doctrine. They are also popular on the Naga.

Medium railguns suffer, though. They are a bit too low damage to really be worth their range. In addition, using them right requires unusually complex combat tactics and range control, so most people find no point in using them when you can just use something closer range, with better tracking and more damage (Ahem, Scorch). It also doesn't help that the Moa and Ferox are as crappy as they are for solo/small-gang work.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#132 - 2012-01-11 15:30:23 UTC
I just think that out of all the weapon platforms, rails are just the worst.

Its not that they do their job badly, its just that they do a job that not many people need.

Mediocre dps at range

You can almost always pick a better weapon platform

Also scorch

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#133 - 2012-01-11 15:42:25 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
I just think that out of all the weapon platforms, rails are just the worst.

Its not that they do their job badly, its just that they do a job that not many people need.

Mediocre dps at range

You can almost always pick a better weapon platform

Also scorch


Beam lasers do the same thing, albeit better DPS at less range. That range/damage combination turns out to be more useful than the Railguns'. It enables smaller gangs to do more, while still being hard to catch.

Plus, there's the problem of on-grid warping, in the style of the "I was there" video. He's picking away at you from 160 km with railguns? Just warp right on top of that guy, or warp at 100 km or 70 km, or whatever the engagement range of your "better weapon platform" is.

Medium railguns just have the mechanics and environment biased against them. It's not something that can be fixed with a simple buff like some people suggest.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Adonlude
Akavhi Guard
Fraternity.
#134 - 2012-01-13 20:32:56 UTC
Sebo's counter damps and by them selves have the added damage advantage of applying damage at range.
Tracking computers counter tracking disruptors and by themselves have the added damage advantage of tracking.
ECCM counters ECM and by themselves have no added advantage, why?

We have the worst counter applied to the best type of ECM. I say give ECCM modules a way to reduce the effectiveness of the other two types of EWAR as well. Dont make it actually boost tracking or range, just make it reduce the effects of damps and disruptors.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#135 - 2012-01-13 20:35:06 UTC
Adonlude wrote:
Sebo's counter damps and by them selves have the added damage advantage of applying damage at range.
Tracking computers counter tracking disruptors and by themselves have the added damage advantage of tracking.
ECCM counters ECM and by themselves have no added advantage, why?

We have the worst counter applied to the best type of ECM. I say give ECCM modules a way to reduce the effectiveness of the other two types of EWAR as well. Dont make it actually boost tracking or range, just make it reduce the effects of damps and disruptors.


That's actually not a horrible idea. Take it to the Features and Ideas Discussion forum.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)